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[Discpsycho]

Do you have a link where I can find the details of this build? seems interesting.

Thanks!

Here ya go. Not a lot of FvS variety these days so this build was pretty close to the top of that class subforum

[SpartanKiller13]

Do you have a link where I can find the details of this build? seems interesting.

Thanks!

Here's a pretty detailed one from Unsinful/Multipro: Link
Here's one from Zappy that I like a little more: Link
Here's a short one from Mikarddo, I'd recommend some more Intimidate stuff but YMMV: Link

There's not a ton of variety, mostly just flavoring

Here ya go. Not a lot of FvS variety these days so this build was pretty close to the top of that class subforum

That one's built for being a survivable healer more than an off-tank. Wis-max is IMO significantly worse for tanking (Cha build for Intimidate boost is really helpful, Con for HP is certainly better for level-ups etc) and the feats are a little different. It's pretty similar though, so I wouldn't expect you to struggle

[Annex]

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

Thank you.

[infael]

I just TR'd to tief scoundrel. I'm not familiar with bards. What should I get for the bard? I'm open to ideas.

Just want a bard that can hold its own.

[SpartanKiller13]

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

Thank you.

• Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist?
• When you say higher difficulties, are you looking to solo like R6 or what's the goal?
• Is this for 1-20, 1-30, sitting at 30, or? Vet I/II?
• What tomes do you have? Str/Dex are the critical ones to know about.
• Do you have 32-point builds available?

When soloing, one of the most important parts is self-healing. Paladin's amazing at this through Elite, but Reaper's self-healing debuff means you have to work for it as you scale up skulls.

Feydark allows you to Cha-max as a Paladin which not only pushes your saves through the roof but also scales your Lay on Hands a ton which is your source of burst self-healing. Greater Color Spray is also incredibly helpful for Heroics, although it's harder to get viable DC's in epics without making a lot of painful tradeoffs.

The problem with going Feydark that you really badly want stat tomes; THF requires Str 17, which is harder to hit without tomes while maxing Cha (and not dumping Con lol). Also you need Magical Training to get into the tree (but you'll probably want that for self-healing etc anyway).

End of the day ideal is probably something like 41/31/7 KotC/SaD/FI. There really isn't a lot of AP flexibility available when trying to optimize a pure Pally.

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You could run a S&B Paladin Vanguard build, but they're not so modern and THF is incredibly strong right now so it's very popular.

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Let me know some details and your thoughts and we'll go from there

[SpartanKiller13]

I just TR'd to tief scoundrel. I'm not familiar with bards. What should I get for the bard? I'm open to ideas.

Just want a bard that can hold its own.

• Do you play in a party? Solo?
• Are you looking for a 15-30 quick IPL, or do you want to sit at cap, or do a stack of EPL's?
• Do you typically run dailies/slayers 20-28 or like R1 stuff?
• Do you have a lot of PL's/RAP/RP? (Vaguely)
• Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? Inquisitive?
• What difficulty to you run/aim for, solo and in party?

Honestly now that Feydark is out there's a lot more options (assuming you have access to it).

Bard can play really well as a support, although IMO it's best multiclassed. I'm currently enjoying an alt that I set up as 15/4/1 Bard/Warlock/Alchemist (although I'd maybe redo as 12/5/3) spreading temp HP and heals across a raid group. Zero DPS/CC though, it's party-only.

You could run as a CC/Support machine also, like T5 Spellsinger + C4 Warchanter + Feydark = great songs, great buffs, tons of CC. Really dependent on having a party though lol.

Feydark + Inquisitive would set you up as a Cha-max build, and you could follow that with Spellsinger's Sustaining Song and be in a pretty solid spot. CC via GCS and like Sonic Blast, and ranged DPS for soloing plus shiny Bard songs for party setup. Probably the easiest option for soloing, but it's not glamorous and I'm not a fan of ranged DPS.

You could also do a Freezing Ice build with Warchanter, using some Swashbuckled weapon and Feydark. Between all the ice effects and backup GCS you'll have a lot of CC everywhere, and your melee is enough DPS to chip stuff down This one seems more fun, but YMMV.

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As far as general Bard tips:
Max Perform - a lot of your stuff is gated behind it, and some DC's are based on it.
You have two types of song effects: active song buffs (all rolled into one button, your Bardic Inspiration) that you buff people one-at-a-time with, and your Ballad buffs (a passive aura effect).
Max Devotion - Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song is insane in party scenarios, but is based on your current spellpower.

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Gimme some details, what are ya interested in (or other angles to take) and what do ya have?

[Annex]

• Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist?
• When you say higher difficulties, are you looking to solo like R6 or what's the goal?
• Is this for 1-20, 1-30, sitting at 30, or? Vet I/II?
• What tomes do you have? Str/Dex are the critical ones to know about.
• Do you have 32-point builds available?

When soloing, one of the most important parts is self-healing. Paladin's amazing at this through Elite, but Reaper's self-healing debuff means you have to work for it as you scale up skulls.

Feydark allows you to Cha-max as a Paladin which not only pushes your saves through the roof but also scales your Lay on Hands a ton which is your source of burst self-healing. Greater Color Spray is also incredibly helpful for Heroics, although it's harder to get viable DC's in epics without making a lot of painful tradeoffs.

The problem with going Feydark that you really badly want stat tomes; THF requires Str 17, which is harder to hit without tomes while maxing Cha (and not dumping Con lol). Also you need Magical Training to get into the tree (but you'll probably want that for self-healing etc anyway).

End of the day ideal is probably something like 41/31/7 KotC/SaD/FI. There really isn't a lot of AP flexibility available when trying to optimize a pure Pally.

-------

You could run a S&B Paladin Vanguard build, but they're not so modern and THF is incredibly strong right now so it's very popular.

-------

Let me know some details and your thoughts and we'll go from there

Thank you, SpartanKiller13.

At low levels, depending on the character, I play Normal or Hard difficulty. At mid levels, I always drop to Normal with very rare forays into Hard. At Epic levels, I play Normal with occasional forays into Hard. At all higher difficulties I sustain too much damage, too quickly, from enemy monsters using Wizard spells.

All my previous attempts to play Clerics (8 tries), Fighters (8 tries), Mages (2 tries), and Paladins (1 try) have failed. About 8 months ago I created my first Rogue Mechanic. She is very easy to play and reached Level 8 running almost everything on Hard with another character in tow. Unfortunately, her equipment became outdated, I had to drop to Normal, and now she remains stuck until I can make her some equipment.

My existing Paladin was created in 2014. It will require a full character reset to fix her. She does not have Epic Destinies and thus remains stuck at Level 22.

I am looking to create a brand new character for the purpose of testing higher difficulties. I have seen many claims that brand new Paladins can easily solo Reaper 1 Difficulty so I thought to try that. She will not have any Tomes. She will need to run each quest Normal>Hard>Elite to unlock Reaper Mode. She will have 32 points for Ability Scores. She will have equipment from Cannith Crafting and Cannith Challenges. She will have access to Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. She will run entirely solo with a hire.

My past experience with Fighters revealed that Monster Champions with Wizard spells destroy them. Perhaps a modern Paladin will fare better. That is the hope.

[MrGharus]

I returned to the game recently after 5 or so years away. I and several friends are all making 1st life characters to run heroic content. I'd like to play with the Vistani Knife Fighting tree, and Pale Master (because I never did a Pale Master back in the day). I'm going to be human and need to reserve 12 points to use in the Human tree to get Greater Dragonmark of Finding (for our playthrough we plan to go "Old-School" and not to use auction hall, broker, or DDO Store items (so no tomes). Other than that I want to do the trapping for the group, so I was thinking 18/2 Pale Wiz-Rogue. I have 32 point builds available to me.

Is this viable for Heroic Elite to Lvl 20? Is there a build out there that will work for me, or could you put one together? Thank you in advance.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thank you, SpartanKiller13.

At low levels, depending on the character, I play Normal or Hard difficulty. At mid levels, I always drop to Normal with very rare forays into Hard. At Epic levels, I play Normal with occasional forays into Hard. At all higher difficulties I sustain too much damage, too quickly, from enemy monsters using Wizard spells.

All my previous attempts to play Clerics (8 tries), Fighters (8 tries), Mages (2 tries), and Paladins (1 try) have failed. About 8 months ago I created my first Rogue Mechanic. She is very easy to play and reached Level 8 running almost everything on Hard with another character in tow. Unfortunately, her equipment became outdated, I had to drop to Normal, and now she remains stuck until I can make her some equipment.

My existing Paladin was created in 2014. It will require a full character reset to fix her. She does not have Epic Destinies and thus remains stuck at Level 22.

I am looking to create a brand new character for the purpose of testing higher difficulties. I have seen many claims that brand new Paladins can easily solo Reaper 1 Difficulty so I thought to try that. She will not have any Tomes. She will need to run each quest Normal>Hard>Elite to unlock Reaper Mode. She will have 32 points for Ability Scores. She will have equipment from Cannith Crafting and Cannith Challenges. She will have access to Menace of the Underdark and Shadowfell Conspiracy. She will run entirely solo with a hire.

My past experience with Fighters revealed that Monster Champions with Wizard spells destroy them. Perhaps a modern Paladin will fare better. That is the hope.

While you can solo R1 with a first-life Paladin, be aware that there's a bit of playstyle, knowledge of quests/Reaper etc, so I'd probably start more at Elite and then move up as you get comfortable?

Your main concern seems to be enemy spellcasters. One thing Paladins can be really good at are saves, thanks to Divine Grace (adding your Cha bonus to saves).

Otherwise you generally want to kill them first, so you're looking for mobility abilities; KotC has Lead the Charge which helps, but that's most of what you get until epics (no tomes = no Spring Attack). You can also use CC on them, but you're fairly limited until 29 w/Dire Charge (given no Feydark). Another critical tip vs spellcasters is to maintain Shield or Nightshield (via wands or clickies) to prevent champions from stacking DoTs on you with Magic Missile.

I'd still recommend THF Paladin; you do lose some defenses compared to a S&B Paladin, but you gain a ton of offense which IMO makes up for it (dead enemies deal no DPS).

Something like:

• 16 Str (your hitting stat, put first level-up point here for ITHF)
• 8 Dex (lol)
• 16 Con (HP)
• 8 Int (only here for skills)
• 8 Wis (you need a total of 14 by level 14 to cast all your spells, but it includes all buffs - even Owl's Wisdom)
• 16 Cha (saves, DC+damage boost, Lay on Hands, Turn Undeads for later)

Last 2 points into Wis if you don't have an airship, or Int if you do.
You can put level-ups into Str for more damage, or Cha for more survivability (if you get access to or plan on getting Feydark at some point, max Cha).

Feats:
1) Two-Handed Fighting (makes THF a lot stronger)
1H) Power Attack (bonus damage; Precision is better but requires Dex 13)
1P) Sovereign Host (level 6 active heal is really strong)
3) Magical Training (allows you to heal infinitely out-of-combat)
6) Improved THF (boosts THF more)
9) Improved Critical: Slashing (melee DPS)
12) Greater THF (more THF fun!)
15) Force of Personality (shiny boost to Will saves)
18) Extra Turning (more turns = more win)
21) Overwhelming Critical (DPS)
24) Empower Healing Spell (or Quicken, or Toughness; mostly it's for Cocoon)
26D) Perfect THF (most THF fun!)
27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)
28D) Perfect TWF (5% Doublestrike is DPS)
29D) Dire Charge (really great CC, really high DC)
30) Epic Damage Reduction (tanky = good)

Not grabbing Cleave b/c you get it via KotC, so saving feats = stronger. You could grab GCleave early which is nice, but then you have to trade two feats at Fred so that's expensive.

Epic Destiny path: start Unyielding Sentinel to level 4, then Divine Crusader 2 (for Confront Any Foe) then swap to Grandmaster of Flowers to 3, then Legendary Dreadnaught to 4, then cap out Shiradi before you take 26; then return to Martial sphere to cap GMoF/LD/Shadowdancer out. This gives access to PTHF and PTWF, which are both really great feats, and Dire Charge at 29. I think that plan wastes 30k XP, but CAF is really really strong so I prefer that over skipping DC.

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Enhancements:
Start 1 AP into KotC, then 4 AP into Sacred Defender for more Lay on Hands - this is your earlygame survival tool.
Back to KotC for Improved Second Strikes, Holy Combatant, and then Exalted Attack > Core 2.
Over to Sacred Defender, grab Durable Defense III while getting C2 ASAP (hotbar & toggle stance).

After that, keep going around 2/3 into KotC and the rest into Sacred Defender. Key points: get +20% HP from SaD, get KotC T3 Holy Combatant (making Greatswords favored is great), one point in Lead the Charge for rushing Wizards. Get +6 Strength from SaD stance too whenever you can (and +3 saves on the way).

Level 12:
Respec to put most of your points (~39) into KotC. Grab the whole T5, highlights from before, Divine Might, +2 stats, Improved Turning, all the cores you can. Then back into Sacred Defender, and just spend points here the rest of the way.

SaD highlights: Cores, +15 PRR/MRR stance, +20% HP stance, +6 Str stance (or Con), +3 Lay on Hands, +10% Movespeed, +2 Cha, +3 saves.

At level 20:
41 AP KotC (as above + capstone)
31 AP SaD (Core 5, as above)

8 leftover AP. Generally this goes to Human, getting Healamp, +1 stat, and Fighting Style:Great Weapon Aptitude.

I'm not using a planner so I might have missed some stuff, but that should be most of the highlights at least so it's a place to start

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Maxing Charisma gives you better survivability, but maxing Strength gives more damage (even with Divine Might). That's something you'll get to pick along the way

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Spell highlights:

1) Divine Favor (stacking damage)
1) Protection from Evil (some immunities)
1) Lesser Restoration
1) Cure Light Wounds (your earlygame heal)
2) Angelskin (more PRR/MRR)
2) Righteous Command (free DPS)
3) Remove Curse
3) Cure Moderate Wounds (your general heal)
3) Prayer (replaces Divine Favor)
4) Holy Sword (DPS)
4) Zeal (more DPS)
4) Deathward (no instakills)
4) Restoration or Cure Serious

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ED-wise, Fatesinger is probably the highest DPS for you, with Shadowdancer offering the best utility (Meld, Grim Precision, Pierce the Gloom, Epic moment) and Divine Crusader the best party value.

You'll want to be filling these out anyway, as that gets you more twist points which is really great.

Twists I'd recommend:

• Rejuvenation Cocoon (Shiradi T1, extremely efficient healing)
• Confront Any Foe (Divine Crusader T2, amazing active cleave attack - it hits 3x in an AoE, each of which can doublestrike)
• Meld into Darkness (Shadowdancer T3, gives 95% Dodge which is near-invulnerability to melee/ranged for 15s/120s)

There's a lot of other good ones, but you won't have a lot of twist points yet and this keeps it simpler

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Thoughts?

[SpartanKiller13]

I returned to the game recently after 5 or so years away. I and several friends are all making 1st life characters to run heroic content. I'd like to play with the Vistani Knife Fighting tree, and Pale Master (because I never did a Pale Master back in the day). I'm going to be human and need to reserve 12 points to use in the Human tree to get Greater Dragonmark of Finding (for our playthrough we plan to go "Old-School" and not to use auction hall, broker, or DDO Store items (so no tomes). Other than that I want to do the trapping for the group, so I was thinking 18/2 Pale Wiz-Rogue. I have 32 point builds available to me.

Is this viable for Heroic Elite to Lvl 20? Is there a build out there that will work for me, or could you put one together? Thank you in advance.

Do you have access to Harper Agent tree? If not, it'll be a lot weaker. If you do, you should be great

PM is hilariously strong right now, so you'll be nigh-immortal on Elite lol.

Max Int for like everything. Dex 13 for Precision, then leftovers into Con. Consider Str 10 for carrying capacity given your restrictions?

Skills, max Balance, Search, Disable Device, and then spend your billion remaining skill points wherever (Jump, Open Lock, Heal, Use Magic Device, etc).

Start Rogue 1, then take the 2nd level somewhere later (like 8 or 10) to even out skill points and get Evasion.

1) Single Weapon Fighting
2W) Extend Spell
3) Precision
6) Insightful Reflexes
6W) Quicken Spell
9) Toughness?
12) Improved SWF
12W) Spell Focus: Enchantment
15) Toughness?
17W) Greater Spell Focus: Enchantment
18) Improved Critical: Piercing

Since it's 1-20 there's some odd choices lol. Also Spell Focus is pretty flexible, you could go Heighten and SF: Conjuration for Web (or Illusion for Color Spray, but that'll depend on your party comp etc. Toughness feats can be swapped for spellcasting stuff, but HP are always appreciated

Early few levels you'll be really weak. Probably just go into VKF and stay fleshy for party heals, and go into PM at level 6 or so. You'll sit on 6 AP in PM for a while, so you can afford VKF+Harper stuff lol. 12 points into Harper is pretty expensive, but probably around level 7-8 or so. VKF eats most of your AP for a while. Core 3 in PM gets another 10% incorp, but you're really AP starved earlygame. A lot of small decisions, but most depend on your party comp so it's hard for me to say. You'll do very low melee damage until you have VKF+Harper a bit, so maybe spellcast early? I haven't run a VKF toon so I'm not sure the details, sorry.

Death Auras heal based on your spellpower/crit at time of cast, so you can swap on a caster stick to throw Auras and then swap back to your daggers. Ravenloft's Silverthread Belt is also fantastic if that's available.

[Annex]

While you can solo R1 with a first-life Paladin, be aware that there's a bit of playstyle, knowledge of quests/Reaper etc, so I'd probably start more at Elite and then move up as you get comfortable?

Thank you again for the very detailed response, SpartanKiller13. To be clear, I have played most quests in this game to the point of exhaustion, just not in Reaper Mode or Elite at level. Since Normal and Hard reward such poor experience, I must replay quests over and over and over to achieve the same results as someone running in Reaper Mode. I have played most quests far more than a Reaper Mode player, not far less, because of the experience reward structure of DDO. The whole point of this exercise is to break into Reaper Difficulty since the vast majority of character power rewards reside there. I need to get over the hurdle because any character that cannot is doomed to suck forever. That is the reality of DDO today.

Your main concern seems to be enemy spellcasters. One thing Paladins can be really good at are saves, thanks to Divine Grace (adding your Cha bonus to saves).

Otherwise you generally want to kill them first, so you're looking for mobility abilities; KotC has Lead the Charge which helps, but that's most of what you get until epics (no tomes = no Spring Attack). You can also use CC on them, but you're fairly limited until 29 w/Dire Charge (given no Feydark). Another critical tip vs spellcasters is to maintain Shield or Nightshield (via wands or clickies) to prevent champions from stacking DoTs on you with Magic Missile.

Even on Hard difficulty, failure to maintain protection against Magic Missiles often means instant death. In my experience, enemy spell casters become the most difficult around level 13 or so when they can instant kill with 1,000 point disintegrates and fire off damage spells in very rapid succession with no time to heal between attacks. Even my Fighter with 750 Hit Points and decent Magic Resistance Rating could not survive that. Unfortunately, Spell Absorption items get used up so quickly as to become useless in seconds.

The lack of any skill to lock up spell casters greatly concerns me. Again in my experience, running straight at the most powerful spell caster often means taking multiple high damage spells with no time to heal between them and if more enemies join it, the situation becomes untenable in a second. My Rogue Mechanic wipes the floor with those same enemies because she can tear them apart at range while dodging spells. Hopefully, she will continue to do that form level 13 to 20 when enemy spell casters are the most powerful.

In all cases, I find that things vastly improve form level 20 on because of much better equipment and Unyielding Sentinel. I would like to get to a point where Reaper Tree upgrades replace Unyielding Sentinel, thus allowing my Epic characters to switch to trees that actually increase damage.

I'd still recommend THF Paladin; you do lose some defenses compared to a S&B Paladin, but you gain a ton of offense which IMO makes up for it (dead enemies deal no DPS).

As per my initial request for advice, I am building a Two Weapon Fighting Paladin. My Paladin who uses a Sword and Shield cannot inflict any damage. She is terrible against anything on level.

Something like:

• 16 Str (your hitting stat, put first level-up point here for ITHF)
• 8 Dex (lol)
• 16 Con (HP)
• 8 Int (only here for skills)
• 8 Wis (you need a total of 14 by level 14 to cast all your spells, but it includes all buffs - even Owl's Wisdom)
• 16 Cha (saves, DC+damage boost, Lay on Hands, Turn Undeads for later)

Last 2 points into Wis if you don't have an airship, or Int if you do.
You can put level-ups into Str for more damage, or Cha for more survivability (if you get access to or plan on getting Feydark at some point, max Cha).

This is very helpful. Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity? It appears I was incorrectly prioritizing Wisdom.

Feats:
1) Two-Handed Fighting (makes THF a lot stronger)
1H) Power Attack (bonus damage; Precision is better but requires Dex 13)
1P) Sovereign Host (level 6 active heal is really strong)
3) Magical Training (allows you to heal infinitely out-of-combat)
6) Improved THF (boosts THF more)
9) Improved Critical: Slashing (melee DPS)
12) Greater THF (more THF fun!)
15) Force of Personality (shiny boost to Will saves)
18) Extra Turning (more turns = more win)
21) Overwhelming Critical (DPS)
24) Empower Healing Spell (or Quicken, or Toughness; mostly it's for Cocoon)
26D) Perfect THF (most THF fun!)
27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)
28D) Perfect TWF (5% Doublestrike is DPS)
29D) Dire Charge (really great CC, really high DC)
30) Epic Damage Reduction (tanky = good)

Not grabbing Cleave b/c you get it via KotC, so saving feats = stronger. You could grab GCleave early which is nice, but then you have to trade two feats at Fred so that's expensive.

This looks a lot like what I was planning but I have two questions.

Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?

Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.

Epic Destiny path: start Unyielding Sentinel to level 4, then Divine Crusader 2 (for Confront Any Foe) then swap to Grandmaster of Flowers to 3, then Legendary Dreadnaught to 4, then cap out Shiradi before you take 26; then return to Martial sphere to cap GMoF/LD/Shadowdancer out. This gives access to PTHF and PTWF, which are both really great feats, and Dire Charge at 29. I think that plan wastes 30k XP, but CAF is really really strong so I prefer that over skipping DC.

This plan looks very good. Thank you.

Enhancements:
Start 1 AP into KotC, then 4 AP into Sacred Defender for more Lay on Hands - this is your earlygame survival tool.
Back to KotC for Improved Second Strikes, Holy Combatant, and then Exalted Attack > Core 2.
Over to Sacred Defender, grab Durable Defense III while getting C2 ASAP (hotbar & toggle stance).

After that, keep going around 2/3 into KotC and the rest into Sacred Defender. Key points: get +20% HP from SaD, get KotC T3 Holy Combatant (making Greatswords favored is great), one point in Lead the Charge for rushing Wizards. Get +6 Strength from SaD stance too whenever you can (and +3 saves on the way).

Level 12:
Respec to put most of your points (~39) into KotC. Grab the whole T5, highlights from before, Divine Might, +2 stats, Improved Turning, all the cores you can. Then back into Sacred Defender, and just spend points here the rest of the way.

SaD highlights: Cores, +15 PRR/MRR stance, +20% HP stance, +6 Str stance (or Con), +3 Lay on Hands, +10% Movespeed, +2 Cha, +3 saves.

At level 20:
41 AP KotC (as above + capstone)
31 AP SaD (Core 5, as above)

8 leftover AP. Generally this goes to Human, getting Healamp, +1 stat, and Fighting Style:Great Weapon Aptitude.

I'm not using a planner so I might have missed some stuff, but that should be most of the highlights at least so it's a place to start

This looks a lot like my Sword and Shield Paladin. I will follow this plan and see how it goes. Thank you.

Maxing Charisma gives you better survivability, but maxing Strength gives more damage (even with Divine Might). That's something you'll get to pick along the way

The first time around, I will build for defenses. I do not want to get into the teens and discover they are insufficient, as usual.

Spell highlights:

1) Divine Favor (stacking damage)
1) Protection from Evil (some immunities)
1) Lesser Restoration
1) Cure Light Wounds (your earlygame heal)
2) Angelskin (more PRR/MRR)
2) Righteous Command (free DPS)
3) Remove Curse
3) Cure Moderate Wounds (your general heal)
3) Prayer (replaces Divine Favor)
4) Holy Sword (DPS)
4) Zeal (more DPS)
4) Deathward (no instakills)
4) Restoration or Cure Serious

I will follow this plan and see how it goes. All my characters carry potions of Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Invisibility, Heroism, Jump, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Death Ward, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Improved Healing, Angel Tears, Resist Acid, Resist Cold, Resist Electricity, Resist Fire, and Resist Sonic.

ED-wise, Fatesinger is probably the highest DPS for you, with Shadowdancer offering the best utility (Meld, Grim Precision, Pierce the Gloom, Epic moment) and Divine Crusader the best party value.

You'll want to be filling these out anyway, as that gets you more twist points which is really great.

Twists I'd recommend:

• Rejuvenation Cocoon (Shiradi T1, extremely efficient healing)
• Confront Any Foe (Divine Crusader T2, amazing active cleave attack - it hits 3x in an AoE, each of which can doublestrike)
• Meld into Darkness (Shadowdancer T3, gives 95% Dodge which is near-invulnerability to melee/ranged for 15s/120s)

There's a lot of other good ones, but you won't have a lot of twist points yet and this keeps it simpler

If this works, I will convert one of my real characters into a Paladin for a while. They have all Epic Destinies unlocked.

Thank you again for the very detailed plan. I will start on this today.

[Discpsycho]

Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity?

Armor Class is pretty all-or-nothing, and as a KOTC paladin you won't be able to attain the "all". That leaves Reflex saves (also pretty binary, and you won't have Evasion), ranged attacks (superfluous) and feats (typically Precision, but you're going for Power Attack to avoid spreading your starting stats too thin).

Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?

I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?

Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.

Turn Undead can work for a Cleric if you build for it - the issue is that (like in 3.5e) it scales off Cha rather than Wis. More importantly for Paladins, Turn Undead shares charges with Smite Evil (and Confront Any Foe in epics), so more charges = more boss beatdown

[Annex]

Armor Class is pretty all-or-nothing, and as a KOTC paladin you won't be able to attain the "all". That leaves Reflex saves (also pretty binary, and you won't have Evasion), ranged attacks (superfluous) and feats (typically Precision, but you're going for Power Attack to avoid spreading your starting stats too thin).



I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?



Turn Undead can work for a Cleric if you build for it - the issue is that (like in 3.5e) it scales off Cha rather than Wis. More importantly for Paladins, Turn Undead shares charges with Smite Evil (and Confront Any Foe in epics), so more charges = more boss beatdown

Thank you for the answers, Discpsycho.

.....

Anyway, I ran my new Paladin to level 5 running Elite and Reaper where possible. It was ugly. While I learned some things, the experiment was a complete failure and I will need to try something else.

[dennisck2]

27) Blinding Speed (QoL and DPS)

Great! Thanks for the detailed post. I agree with everything except this. You can get pretty much the same thing from a swiftness augment now. Just a heads up.

[SpartanKiller13]

Thank you again for the very detailed response, SpartanKiller13. To be clear, I have played most quests in this game to the point of exhaustion, just not in Reaper Mode or Elite at level. Since Normal and Hard reward such poor experience, I must replay quests over and over and over to achieve the same results as someone running in Reaper Mode. I have played most quests far more than a Reaper Mode player, not far less, because of the experience reward structure of DDO. The whole point of this exercise is to break into Reaper Difficulty since the vast majority of character power rewards reside there. I need to get over the hurdle because any character that cannot is doomed to suck forever. That is the reality of DDO today.

Fair! I just don't like making assumptions; I'm not trying to imply anything about you. I will say quest experience often differs on E/R vs N/H because of champions, reapers, and quest scaling; you often end up with larger numbers of enemies in a pack, for instance. Still, knowing the quests helps a ton for figuring out when you can yolo vs when you have to be more careful.

Even on Hard difficulty, failure to maintain protection against Magic Missiles often means instant death. In my experience, enemy spell casters become the most difficult around level 13 or so when they can instant kill with 1,000 point disintegrates and fire off damage spells in very rapid succession with no time to heal between attacks. Even my Fighter with 750 Hit Points and decent Magic Resistance Rating could not survive that. Unfortunately, Spell Absorption items get used up so quickly as to become useless in seconds.

Disintegrate is really close to being a save-or-die effect; if you hit the Fort save it's an average of 24 base vs 200 if you don't (before spellpower etc). Priority there is getting your saves high, and if that's your major concern looking into effects that allow you to succeed on a 1 (Human Action Boost for Saves works, or epic feats/twists). I'll see what I can fit into your build

The lack of any skill to lock up spell casters greatly concerns me. Again in my experience, running straight at the most powerful spell caster often means taking multiple high damage spells with no time to heal between them and if more enemies join it, the situation becomes untenable in a second. My Rogue Mechanic wipes the floor with those same enemies because she can tear them apart at range while dodging spells. Hopefully, she will continue to do that form level 13 to 20 when enemy spell casters are the most powerful.

There's the option to grab Stunning Blow or use native Trip for these sorts of things, but my experience in Heroics is that it's usually easier to kill them than to use CC. It's also why I really prioritize mobility options, but it's hard to hit 3 feats + 13 Dex for Spring Attack on a first-life Paladin. Lead the Charge helps, but that's really all you can get until 29 (outside EA which isn't a great ED for a melee).

In all cases, I find that things vastly improve form level 20 on because of much better equipment and Unyielding Sentinel. I would like to get to a point where Reaper Tree upgrades replace Unyielding Sentinel, thus allowing my Epic characters to switch to trees that actually increase damage.

Epic Defensive Fighting also helps 21+, but yeah a bit of RXP goes a long ways towards staying alive. And more DPS = enemies die faster = you take less damage.

As per my initial request for advice, I am building a Two Weapon Fighting Paladin. My Paladin who uses a Sword and Shield cannot inflict any damage. She is terrible against anything on level.

This is your initial request:

Is there a modern, first life, solo, Human Paladin build around here, somewhere? Seven or eight months back, I recall a thread in which the writer created such a character. I want to practice playing at higher difficulties.

I honestly still don't see anything about TWF there or in your other post, so I recommended the strongest option in THF. It's also a lot easier to do without tomes, as TWF requires 17 Dex which is a LOT to put into a stat that you aren't using for anything other than feat requirements. As a melee Paladin, you need Str/Con/Cha already, and adding TWF means you need Dex as well. Without tomes and as a first life you're stuck with lower numbers in most of those than I'd like (probably 14/16/14/8/8/16 or so, maybe swap Cha/Con) which is hurting yourself right from the start.

Also THF is objectively stronger than TWF since U45. There was a huge update to how THF works, and it received significant buffs. It's very strong, and scales much better with your main stat than any other damage type. I'm not trying to dissuade you, I just want you to be aware of what to expect. TWF Paladin will be weaker than an identical THF toon, and you're short a few ability points as well.

This is very helpful. Why do you show such disdain towards Dexterity? It appears I was incorrectly prioritizing Wisdom.

If you're going TWF it's a requirement for the TWF feat lines. Otherwise, as a Paladin you're incredibly MAD (dependent on like a LOT of stats) and as a first-life without tomes you don't start with a lot of points to spread anyway. Also I didn't see you were going for TWF.

Let's consider what +6 to Dex offers a THF Paladin:
+3 Reflex saves (these are the spells you can afford to tank the most, as they're basically all damage spells vs like instakills or Disintegrates or Hold Persons)
+3 AC (unless you're a dedicated AC tank, AC becomes nearly useless past level 13 or so)

Compare that to +4 Cha:
+2 all saves
20-60 more base heal from Lay on Hands
+2 tactics DC's
+1 to-hit & damage

Compare to +4 Str:
+2 to hit
+4-6 damage
+2 tactics

I would in every case take +4 Cha/Str over +6 Dex on a THF Paladin. I'd take +2 Cha/Str probably, for that matter. For TWF I'm looking to hit 17 and no more.

This looks a lot like what I was planning but I have two questions.

Is Magical Training for Echos of Power? Am I expected to adventure without a Hire to further reduce difficulty?

Why should I take Endless Turning? In my experience, Turn Undead is completely useless. Even on Normal difficulty on a Cleric with high Wisdom running over level it does nothing. I presumed it was one of those permanently broken things in DDO.

You asked for soloing, and to many that means no-hire if you bring a hire always, feel free to swap Magical Training out. It's also a pre-requisite for Feydark Illusionist, which allows this build to work that way if you ever get access to that tree (if it follows the pattern should be like 500 DDO points which is a few runs to 20 of favor; I can't recommend it enough for a Paladin). Also helps for affording Divine Might, but that's not hugely important if you keep a Wizardry aug on or something. Dumping Wis hurts your SP pool, but you kinda can't afford more Wis.

Hirelings are also worse as you increase difficulty. They don't scale, but their enemies do. More enemies hitting for harder means your hirelings die a lot more, so you usually end up parking your hire outside combat range and summoning them between fights (or for boss fights etc).

All the Turn-related stuff is mostly to get more Confront Any Foe uses per rest (it matters 20+). CAF is a monster active attack that demolishes stuff. You get 3 attacks in the same time as one, but they're all AoE cleaves, and every one can doublestrike (with 100% DS you hit 6x); it also has only 2s cooldown, so it's really spammable for bad situations. Feel free to skip out on the Turn stuff, but don't skip CAF. It's also great for powering Holy Retribution at 12+, but with the 30s cooldown running out of charges isn't as much of an issue.

For the record Turn Undead being used on undead is extremely good on Clerics given two factors: 1) Radiant Servant T2 Mighty Turning (link) and 2) some Turn gear (like Celestial Beacon - link). With it you can destroy entire groups of undead in heroics, scaling down as you go because enemy hit die scale very fast.

I will follow this plan and see how it goes. All my characters carry potions of Lesser Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Invisibility, Heroism, Jump, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Death Ward, Restoration, Cure Serious Wounds, Improved Healing, Angel Tears, Resist Acid, Resist Cold, Resist Electricity, Resist Fire, and Resist Sonic.

Can probably skip some of the spells then but note that your spellcast heals get your Devotion as well, so they'll be a lot better than chugging equivalent pots. You're definitely better stocked than I am though

Thank you again for the very detailed plan. I will start on this today.

Of course! Sorry it wasn't exactly what you were after.

Some notes:

If you're going TWF, start Dex 16 and put one level-up into it; fighting style feats are hugely important, and you need Dex 17 for the later ones. Since you have Dex, swap Power Attack out for Precision (it's just better past level 8 or so) and you can consider Spring Attack line if there's 3 feats available.

Honestly I think you would have a better Paladin experience as THF, but that doesn't mean it's a better personal experience. At the end of the day it's a game, so do what you have fun with

Sacrificing DPS for survivability is great until the point where your lower DPS means enemies have so much longer to beat on you that it's a loss.

Some more twists to consider:
Magister T1 Impregnable Mind (no-fail Will saves on a 1)
Draconic T1 Dragonhide (no-fail Fort saves on a 1)

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You can also swap your 3/18/24 feats for other stuff like Stunning Blow, Toughness, or Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack for another gap-closer.

[SpartanKiller13]

I tend to park a hireling near the entrance when soloing on squishier builds (which this is not) so I can emergency-rez if I can't reach a shrine.

I'd imagine Magical Training is a workaround for hirelings, which more elite players than I often don't bother with. On the other hand, Paladins don't need Cleave / Great Cleave and you have to spend those feats on something, so why not?

Or if you're not running a hireling for whatever reason, or if your hireling has a tendency to walk into lava lol. Magical Training is also nice just for the SP (as a Wis-dump toon) and future-proof for Feydark Illusionist.

Anyway, I ran my new Paladin to level 5 running Elite and Reaper where possible. It was ugly. While I learned some things, the experiment was a complete failure and I will need to try something else.

I'm sorry to hear that. What server are you on? I'd be happy to make a fresh toon to run some stuff to see what's going on, if you're interested?

Great! Thanks for the detailed post. I agree with everything except this. You can get pretty much the same thing from a swiftness augment now. Just a heads up.

If you have one on your first-life toon this is a great idea! Consider grabbing Epic Will or something else there then (for no-fail 1's for Will saves, given that's a priority for the OP).

Personally I don't have enough Swiftness augs floating around, so I don't want to assume everyone else does.

[infael]

• Do you play in a party? Solo?
• Are you looking for a 15-30 quick IPL, or do you want to sit at cap, or do a stack of EPL's?
• Do you typically run dailies/slayers 20-28 or like R1 stuff?
• Do you have a lot of PL's/RAP/RP? (Vaguely)
• Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? Inquisitive?
• What difficulty to you run/aim for, solo and in party?

Honestly now that Feydark is out there's a lot more options (assuming you have access to it).

Bard can play really well as a support, although IMO it's best multiclassed. I'm currently enjoying an alt that I set up as 15/4/1 Bard/Warlock/Alchemist (although I'd maybe redo as 12/5/3) spreading temp HP and heals across a raid group. Zero DPS/CC though, it's party-only.

You could run as a CC/Support machine also, like T5 Spellsinger + C4 Warchanter + Feydark = great songs, great buffs, tons of CC. Really dependent on having a party though lol.

Feydark + Inquisitive would set you up as a Cha-max build, and you could follow that with Spellsinger's Sustaining Song and be in a pretty solid spot. CC via GCS and like Sonic Blast, and ranged DPS for soloing plus shiny Bard songs for party setup. Probably the easiest option for soloing, but it's not glamorous and I'm not a fan of ranged DPS.

You could also do a Freezing Ice build with Warchanter, using some Swashbuckled weapon and Feydark. Between all the ice effects and backup GCS you'll have a lot of CC everywhere, and your melee is enough DPS to chip stuff down This one seems more fun, but YMMV.

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As far as general Bard tips:
Max Perform - a lot of your stuff is gated behind it, and some DC's are based on it.
You have two types of song effects: active song buffs (all rolled into one button, your Bardic Inspiration) that you buff people one-at-a-time with, and your Ballad buffs (a passive aura effect).
Max Devotion - Spellsinger T4 Sustaining Song is insane in party scenarios, but is based on your current spellpower.

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Gimme some details, what are ya interested in (or other angles to take) and what do ya have?

I join groups and solo when there aren't groups. Right now, I'm doing heroic/iconics for heroic completionist, while figuring out what my final build will be. So far, possible final builds are FvS or ranger.

I just wanna survive to 30 and not suck at surviving while pulling my weight.

[SpartanKiller13]

I join groups and solo when there aren't groups. Right now, I'm doing heroic/iconics for heroic completionist, while figuring out what my final build will be. So far, possible final builds are FvS or ranger.

I just wanna survive to 30 and not suck at surviving while pulling my weight.

Honestly in groups if you have T4 Spellsinger songs (and Inspire Excellence in epics) most groups will call that pulling your weight; everything else is QoL bonus, and you can provide a lot more than just that so it's really easy to be in a great spot. I ran a bunch of LR6's on my 20-30 route with my first-life Bard alt - mostly throwing songs and heals - and everyone enjoyed having me along despite my lack of DPS Your toon, being much more invested than mine (and probably with some relevant gear lol) is in a much better position to help a lot more than I did.

For a 15-30 quick life you're probably just looking for HR1 and Dailies/Slayers/joining Reaper groups; you also want to be solo-capable, which requires at least passable DPS, self-healing, and some sort of CC that works pretty well.

Your best two options I can see are Inquisitive or Freezing Ice Warchanter. Do you have access to Feydark Illusionist? If so, you'll be a lot stronger than if you don't (because you can Cha-max for everything).

I'd do Warchanter personally, b/c I like melee and hate pew-pew. YMMV though lol.

Feydark Warchanter, Bard 20:

Feats:
1) SWF
3) Precision
6) Force of Personality
9) Improved SWF
12) Improved Critical (pick depending on your weapon choices)
15) Greater SWF
18) Quicken Spell (or Toughness)
21) Inspire Excellence
24) Overwhelming Critical
26D) Perfect SWF
27) Extend Spell/Epic DR (or Epic Toughness if you have 21 Con)
28D) Perfect TWF
29D) Dire Charge
30) Extend Spell/Epic DR
30L) Scion of Astral (for Tactics) or Arborea (for DPS)

Enhancements:
AP has some really good options; like more Feydark = GCS which is great CC, or more Swashbuckler allows you to SWF with a buckler for more DPS; but those knock you out of Spellsinger's Sustaining Song which is incredibly strong for party usage, or Warchanter's Capstone which looks really great for soloing or party CC.

Here's the best I can come up with:

45 AP Warchanter: All Cores, Sprints, Ironskin, Frozen Fury, +2 Cha, Recklessness, North Wind, Armorer, Full T5 (w/Fleeting Footsteps)
22 AP Spellsinger: Core 3, Sharp Note, Flicker, +1 Cha, Sustaining Song, Spell Song Trance
7 AP Feydark Illusionist: Familiar's Flourish 1/2, Illusory Weaponry
6 AP Swashbuckler: Core 2

You can skim some from Warchanter T5 (like drop to 41 for Feydark Greater Color Spray) as well.

Abilities:
Max Cha, get 13 Dex (10+ if you have a Tome), then max Con. Starting 10+ Str is nice for carrying capacity, but not critical.

Skills:
Max Perform > 7 ranks in Balance > 10 ranks in Jump > UMD > else

Cha-max means you'll have great DC's for Warchanter stuff (pick up Stunning gear), Feydark GCS works great with a little Illusion Focus gear - it falls of at endgame, but you get Dire Charge then. DPS won't be amazing, but you have Warchanter stuff and a Swashbuckling weapon which is neato

[kaoshin]

Hello! Any suggestions for a sorcerer build that can function in R4-R6 with a stable and consistent party? I've been playing almost exclusively divine casters prior to this point though I do have that one important wizard past life to get access to past-life wizard.

[SpartanKiller13]

Hello! Any suggestions for a sorcerer build that can function in R4-R6 with a stable and consistent party? I've been playing almost exclusively divine casters prior to this point though I do have that one important wizard past life to get access to past-life wizard.

Hey! Are you looking for R4-6 for leveling (1-20, 1-30, or what?), or like R1 to endgame then R4-6 there, or?

Mikkarddo's build seems pretty fine, or I'd look over Strimtom's Fire Sorc guide (and the thread following it, there's some interesting discussion)

Sorc hasn't changed much recently, and you have a tank and a healer in a static; almost any build will be able to function with that setup lol. I'd recommend Tiefling for the Fire bypass if that's an option (especially if you have racial AP) but it's hard to go wrong with most choices.

Is there something specific you're after?