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[unbongwah]

I used to play a custom build known as "The SongBow" which for the life of me I can't even track down anymore. It consisted of 7 levels of bard, 5 levels of fighter, and 2 levels of ranger and utilized the arcane archer from the elf tree and the high BAB for a strong manyshot, self healing, and super good ranged damage.

Do you mean this one?

Recent changes to the AA and DWS trees make archery more viable than they were before; though the playing field is still tilted in favor of monkchers using MS+10 Thousand Stars. The downside is the best of the new Enhancements are pretty backloaded into both trees, IMO, which means you have to invest most of your APs into them to do good ranged DPS, leaving little left for other PrEs. I.e., playing a pure ranged archer build has gotten more powerful, but at the expense of versatility.

That seems much more difficult to accomplish and as such I'm looking for a really strong Eldritch Death Knight kind of build.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ar-Infiltrator
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-of-Velsharoon

[Capcom23]

Yes, that is the previous build I was using. As for those two builds you've linked, I was taking a look at them but the layout is very confusing for one such as myself who's not super familiar with min-maxing what feats or enhancements to take when and what not. Also keeping mind I have access to no past lives or "sun elf" if there was anyway you could make it slightly more accessible for me I would appreciate it. I have 32 point build and I am VIP. It's just that since I've come back it seems that people are not really as concerned with doing things with the group mentality anymore. There's no more dedicated healers and there seems to be a huge emphasis on rushing down dungeons. Without knowing this I thought it would be fun to make a pure Fighter kensei build. I quickly came to realized that without self healing I was a complete liability and my damage was not up to snuff in comparison to my constant deaths.

Long post aside, if you could just break that down for me and help me out I would really appreciate it. I really do love the idea of eldritch knight, and I'm really only looking at the necromancy so I can self heal without needing to go warforged.

[unbongwah]

A couple of disclaimers: first off, those builds rely on past lives, gear, etc. to be EE-viable, which you won't have on a first-lifer; and second, Eldritch Knight has always been a weak DPS tree, but it looks even more weaksauce compared to all the melee buffage since last summer. So basically, you're combining a weak-DPS melee PrE with a somewhat-gimped caster build and hoping the synergies outweigh the drawbacks. Personally, I don't think they do, which is why I have no active EK alts these days. But if you're committed to the build concept and don't mind the extra challenge of being more-than-slightly gimpy, let's discuss How to Build an EK Pale Master.

Before you begin, there are several decisions you need to make, which will depend partly on playstyle preference and partly on what resources you have available:

• Race: sun elves are considered optimal because they can get up to +4 INT, +3 Spell Pen, +1 Enchant DCs, and -15% ASF reduction, though it costs 18 APs to max out all of those bonuses. The downsides are Morninglords are an Iconic race so you have to pay to unlock them; and they always start with cleric at first level, although you can LR +1 to get rid of it. [Note that MLs are included with Shadowfell CE and Turbine usually puts the expansion packs on sale for 50-75% off for Thanksgiving / Black Friday. So you've come back just in time to save big on the expansions soon. ] After sun elves, I'd say it's a toss-up between drow (+4 INT, -15% ASF) or human (extra feat, +1 INT, Spellpower Action Boost).
• Class split: Presuming you want lich form which req's 18 wiz lvls, the question mark is what to do with your last two lvls. You can try to do pure wizard, which has the advantage of an extra metamagic and PM capstone; but you have no armor profs, which means either buying them thru EK (which caps out at medium) or using feats. Rogue splash for trap skills & Evasion or ftr splash for extra feat(s) and higher BAB are the obvious options. If you have Artificer, you might also consider splashing it, esp. if you want to use repeaters rather than melee. I would also consider barb 1 / ftr 1 splash: trade a feat for +10% run speed; once you get used to higher-run-speed classes like barbs, rogs, etc. it's very hard to go back to the slowpokes.
• Combat style: this is up to you, although two advantages to SWF are (a) getting to use an orb in your offhand (most of which are geared to casters) and (B) it has no stat pre-reqs unlike THF & TWF, so it's easier to pull off w/out tomes etc. S&B will have the weakest DPS and you have to contend with extra ASF, but it does provide extra defenses. Like I said, repeaters are also an option w/arty splash, since their high rate of fire means you do pretty good DPS right out of the gate; by the time your ranged DPS starts dropping off, you'll probably switch to spells and there are a number of runearms with caster bonuses as well. [Minor bonus: the atk speed penalty from zombie form only affects melee.] You could also try an archer, although my gut feeling is you'd have to spend too much on AA and not enough on PM, making an already flavorful build truly gimpy.

Once you narrow down your parameters, it'll be easier to steer you to a proper build.

[Capcom23]

Race: I'd say Drow is the more preferable until I get access to the Sun Elf.

Class Split: I don't have access to the artificer yet, but I do like the idea of having the heavier armor proficiency so I'd say 2 levels of fighter sounds good.

Combat Style: Single Weapon fighting with an orb sounds like a good choice from the information you've just put forward.

I do realize that maybe this won't be the tier one build, but I really love the idea of the gish and I'm an old school D&D player at heart. I do appreciate that you're willing to accommodate me in this regard and I appreciate your help.

[unbongwah]

That actually makes things easier, as it's a pretty straight-forward conversion of Blade of Velsharoon:

Lich Squire
18/2 Wizard/Fighter
True Neutral Drow


Level Order

1. Wizard          6. Wizard         11. Wizard         16. Wizard
2. Wizard          7. Wizard         12. Wizard         17. Wizard
3. Wizard          8. Wizard         13. Wizard         18. Wizard
4. Fighter         9. Wizard         14. Wizard         19. Wizard
5. Wizard         10. Wizard         15. Wizard         20. Fighter


Stats
               28pt     30pt     32pt     Level Up
               ----     ----     ----     --------
Strength         8        8        8       4: DEX
Dexterity       12       12       12       8: INT
Constitution    14       14       14      12: INT
Intelligence    20       20       20      16: INT
Wisdom           8        8        8      20: INT
Charisma        10       12       14      24: INT
                                          28: INT

Skills
          W  W  W  F  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  W  F
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Perform   2     1        1           1     2  1     1     1     1     11
Heal      2              1     2     1  1     1     1     1     1     11
Search    1  1½ ½     ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½  ½     1     1     1     1  11
UMD       2        1  1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Spot         1                             ½     2     2     2     ½   8
Balance   2     1     1     1     1                                1   7
Jump               1                                                   1
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         28  7  7  7  7  7  7  7  7  7  7  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  8  9


Feats

 1        : Single Weapon Fighting
 1 Wizard : Extend Spell
 3        : Insightful Reflexes
 4 Fighter: Precision
 6        : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy (or Arcane Initiate)
 6 Wizard : Spell Focus: Necromancy
 9        : Spell Penetration
11 Wizard : Maximize Spell
12        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
15        : Improved Critical: Piercing
16 Wizard : Heighten Spell
18        : Greater Spell Penetration
20 Fighter: Greater Single Weapon Fighting
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Epic Spell Penetration
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting (or Epic Spell Power: Negative)
27 Epic   : Ruin
28 Destiny: Hellball


Enhancements (80 AP)

Drow (4 AP)

Spell Resistance
Arcane Fluidity III

Pale Master (35 AP)

Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form, Lich Form
Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Efficient Maximize III, Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night II, Spell Critical, Intelligence
Spell Critical, Intelligence
Necromantic Focus, Improved Shrouding

Archmage (11 AP)

Magic Missile, Gust of Wind, Chain Missile
Subtle Spellcasting I, Traditionalist Caster III, Spell Critical
Spell Critical

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (14 AP)

Eldritch Strike, Spellsword: Acid
Improved Mage Armor III, Item Defense I
Improved Shield III, Martial Training
Arcane Barrier III

Harper Agent (12 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Kensei (4 AP)

Kensei Focus: Light Blades
Haste Boost III


Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

Shadow Lance III, Technician I
Lithe III, Skill Mastery
Cloak of Shadows, Shrouding Strike III, Grim Precision III
Improved Invisibility I
Shadow Manipulation, Untouchable
Consume, Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

Energy Burst: Acid (Tier 4 Draconic)
Piercing Spellcraft (Tier 3 Magister)
School Specialist: Necromancy (Tier 2 Magister)

A few comments:

• EDIT: Heal skill boosts your Negative Spellpower; Perform boosts Sonic Spellpower; Spellcraft boosts elemental / Force / untyped Spellpower. So that's why those skills are maxed out. Concentration & UMD should be self-explanatory; and you need 7 ranks of Balance to take GSWF. After that, it's mostly just a matter of figuring out where to dump the rest of one's skill pts; I maxed Search because True Seeing isn't good enough for all secret doors anymore.
• Needs DEX 13 for Precision; if you have a +1 DEX tome, you can put your lvl 4 stat pt into INT instead of DEX.
• Since you don't have any PL feats you can take, I invested in Spell Pen feats, since you don't have PLs to help out here.
• One possibility is to zip to 20 on this build then HTR so you can add Arcane Initiate the second time around.
• This AP spread provides -20% ASF; a -15% ASF blue augment gets most heavy armors down to zero ASF. Alternatively, since Shadowdancer grants Evasion, switch to light armor while in SD and reduce ASF accordingly.
• The listed Twists are a best-case scenario; it will be a loooong time before you actually have 26 Fate pts, I'm afraid.

[Capcom23]

In what order would you recommend I take the enhancements?

[unbongwah]

In what order would you recommend I take the enhancements?

Depends on whether you want to focus on melee or spellcasting first. If melee: take the Harper enhs ASAP (T3 Strategic Combat is what provides INT to dmg), then work on EK; for low levels, I'd rely on Cure pots (or hires) rather than undead form for healing, esp. since zombie takes melee speed penalty. If spellcasting: focus on PM & AM first, then shift into Harper & EK once you start melee-ing more.

Fortunately, Enhancements can be reset at any time in public areas, so feel free to experiment to see which approach you like more while leveling.

[Capcom23]

That's pretty cool. Quite a talent you've got there. Do you have any thoughts on a pure bard war-chanter? My bards up to level 16 and I have a lesser heart of wood and I think I may be the only person in the entire universe who doesn't really like swashbuckler that much.

[unbongwah]

Do you have any thoughts on a pure bard war-chanter? My bards up to level 16 and I have a lesser heart of wood and I think I may be the only person in the entire universe who doesn't really like swashbuckler that much.

INCONCEIVABLE!

Most of the WC builds these days seem to be freeze-specced. A few ideas in these threads:
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...archanter-Bard
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-Swashbuckler

[ricky4105]

I just started playing again, and just re-purchased VIP, so I have access to the monk class again! I'm not too sure what's good anymore, and I want to start fresh. Can someone help me with a decent returning monk build? 32 points, human or half-elf preferably.

I also heard monks weren't doing too well, so possibly a druid build focusing on using the water form? (Love the look of water form :P)

Druids and monks were my two favorite classes, so i'd like to find some builds that allow me to do decent dps, so I don't drag my group down, while being able to play what I enjoy.

[Kurgan224]

Hi all, just returning to DDO after many years away. Bought Artificer with points from the store specials and was looking for a good build, probably warforged using a repeater. It would be first life, I have 32 point builds and basically no gear, so it would be starting from the ground up. I would like a build that can solo well, perhaps with a splash of rogue for traps and locks if needed.

Thanks.

[unbongwah]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...used-artificer

[Kurgan224]

Thanks, playing with that one now

[Hasacz]

Hey,

I'm looking for a build for a friend to get him into game. He's an old time WoW player, but recently he got bored with Warcraft and wanted to try something new. I've seen dwarven battle cleric build on the frontpage but unfortunately it's outdated(enchantments). He would really like to play paladin but I dont think it's a good first life choice for a 28 points build character. I've got some basic gear for him, mostly heavy armors from different level ranges and +2 wisdom tome. Our exping party gonna be me with my pure bard(3rd life) - exping as warchanter and him. I'd be greatful for any propositions. Thanks in advance.

[unbongwah]

He would really like to play paladin but I dont think it's a good first life choice for a 28 points build character.

Actually, pallies make excellent first-life builds these days: high saves, good self-heals, high PRR/MRR from Sacred D., and pretty good DPS. See my Sacred Vanguards thread for S&B examples; there's also plenty of KotC pure pallies out there. For something more "exotic," there's Steel Shrine; essentially a typical KotC build but with a heavy FvS splash for Ameliorating Strike. For a F2P variant, pal 15 / cleric 4 / ftr 1 works pretty good, IMO.

Of course, if you want him to play a healer for your static group, I'll never tell him how good pallies are... Axel's build should work on a first-lifer too.

[Discpsycho]

I just started playing again, and just re-purchased VIP, so I have access to the monk class again! I'm not too sure what's good anymore, and I want to start fresh. Can someone help me with a decent returning monk build? 32 points, human or half-elf preferably.

I also heard monks weren't doing too well, so possibly a druid build focusing on using the water form? (Love the look of water form :P)

Druids and monks were my two favorite classes, so i'd like to find some builds that allow me to do decent dps, so I don't drag my group down, while being able to play what I enjoy.

Ricky, unfortunately you're correct about monks not being fantastic at the moment. The only decent pure monk build I can think of is the Shuricannon (follow the link in the first post for the original, which is more defensive), but it's a little outdated and isn't quite as powerful as some of the other thrower builds out there. You could also try a Monkcher.

Regarding caster druids, Gingerspyce's build seems to be popular, or you could try splashing Sorceror.

Alternatively, you could combine the two and make a Druid/Monk melee, which is a little squishier than the current gold standard of wolf builds (post #3)

[PrinceMyshkin]

I may be looking for the impossible. My playing and game research time are very limited and perhaps someone can point me to an existing build that may meet my needs. My favorite builds have been a Ranger/Rogue of my own (more or less) design, a Tempest Warpriest I modified to an Arcane Archer Warpriest, and a Rusty Shiv that I also modified for archery with my limited knowledge and experience. The highest level I've gotten is 17. I'm on a very slow connection and if I wade into a crowded battle the game becomes unresponsive. My best tactic for boss rooms is to open the door, cowardly run away and hope my hireling (usually a bard, they're surprisingly tough if they would just remember to heal themselves) will engage the enemy while I Manyshot from a distance.

I'm F2P with Drow, Bard, Monk, and Druid unlocked. I have enough TP to unlock a single race or class if needed but would prefer to spend it on adventure packs.

Things I'd like to have:
1. Very strong archery skills. In theory any type--bow, xbow, repeater, or thrown--would be OK, but greatly prefer arcane arrows for obvious reasons.

2. Trapping. Although I'm finding at upper levels that even maxed out skills (in the skill point sense) often don't work, still it has really been handy.

3. Non-human. I really like the Halfling's Dragonmark healing and leeches or Dwarves LR drinking.

4. No tomes until high levels. I simply cannot afford them.

5. Death Ward would be nice, which I think means either 7 Cleric, 9 Druid or 14 Paladin. I don't have that on any archer build and maybe there's a better solution but there's got to be something better than having to wait 10 minutes doing nothing while my levels come back.

6. Arrow of Slaying and Paralyze Arrows work really nice for me, but may not be possible with the above. Again, I'm open to suggestions.

7. For the occasions when I do get crowded, obviously I need some decent melee. Two of the above builds have Ameliorating Strike, Cleave and Great Cleave which are nice when they work, but often wasted due to lag. I hit the key only to find the enemy isn't in front of me anymore. I generally do better just spamming the attack key.

8. Some kind of protection against Hold Person. If my hireling is struggling, this often leads to a wipe.

[FranOhmsford]

I may be looking for the impossible. My playing and game research time are very limited and perhaps someone can point me to an existing build that may meet my needs. My favorite builds have been a Ranger/Rogue of my own (more or less) design, a Tempest Warpriest I modified to an Arcane Archer Warpriest, and a Rusty Shiv that I also modified for archery with my limited knowledge and experience. The highest level I've gotten is 17. I'm on a very slow connection and if I wade into a crowded battle the game becomes unresponsive. My best tactic for boss rooms is to open the door, cowardly run away and hope my hireling (usually a bard, they're surprisingly tough if they would just remember to heal themselves) will engage the enemy while I Manyshot from a distance.

I'm F2P with Drow, Bard, Monk, and Druid unlocked. I have enough TP to unlock a single race or class if needed but would prefer to spend it on adventure packs.

Things I'd like to have:
1. Very strong archery skills. In theory any type--bow, xbow, repeater, or thrown--would be OK, but greatly prefer arcane arrows for obvious reasons.

2. Trapping. Although I'm finding at upper levels that even maxed out skills (in the skill point sense) often don't work, still it has really been handy.

3. Non-human. I really like the Halfling's Dragonmark healing and leeches or Dwarves LR drinking.

4. No tomes until high levels. I simply cannot afford them.

5. Death Ward would be nice, which I think means either 7 Cleric, 9 Druid or 14 Paladin. I don't have that on any archer build and maybe there's a better solution but there's got to be something better than having to wait 10 minutes doing nothing while my levels come back.

6. Arrow of Slaying and Paralyze Arrows work really nice for me, but may not be possible with the above. Again, I'm open to suggestions.

7. For the occasions when I do get crowded, obviously I need some decent melee. Two of the above builds have Ameliorating Strike, Cleave and Great Cleave which are nice when they work, but often wasted due to lag. I hit the key only to find the enemy isn't in front of me anymore. I generally do better just spamming the attack key.

8. Some kind of protection against Hold Person. If my hireling is struggling, this often leads to a wipe.

Sounds like you want at least 12 Ranger for Arcane Archer {though you could probably get away with 5 if you're not bothered about having Metalline or Aligned Arrows, 6 will get you Metalline}.
5 Rogue

If you're willing to buy Morninglord Iconic Race you can use the Morninglord Blessing of Amaunator Enhancement to self cast Mass Deathward, Mass Spell Res and Mass Aid all in one go.
It will mean you start life as a Cleric so you could use your 2 levels spare for either 3 Cleric, 14 Ranger or 7 Rogue.

So:
Morninglord
14 Ranger / 5 Rogue / 1 Cleric
12 Ranger / 7 Rogue / 1 Cleric
12 Ranger / 5 Rogue / 3 Cleric
are your choices.

You won't get Freedom of Movement out of that unfortunately but there is a Lvl 9 FvS Hireling {Lani Vesta} you can carry around with you to cast it on you {Call her at start of quest, target yourself and tell her to cast it then dismiss her} and there are also a couple of rare boots that give permanent FoM.


I'd level it as:
1) Cleric {No choice here if Morninglord}
2) Rogue
3) Ranger
4) Rogue
5) Ranger
6) Ranger
7) Ranger
8) Ranger
9) Ranger
10 Rogue
then take the extra Rogue levels when your trap skills {Search and Disable are the big two} fall away to get them back up.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Sounds like you want at least 12 Ranger for Arcane Archer {though you could probably get away with 5 if you're not bothered about having Metalline or Aligned Arrows, 6 will get you Metalline}.
5 Rogue

If you're willing to buy Morninglord Iconic Race you can use the Morninglord Blessing of Amaunator Enhancement to self cast Mass Deathward, Mass Spell Res and Mass Aid all in one go.
It will mean you start life as a Cleric so you could use your 2 levels spare for either 3 Cleric, 14 Ranger or 7 Rogue.

Thanks! I tried Metalline but not in any analytical way. Nothing caught my eye so I went back to Morphic which definitely makes a difference when fighting different mob types. I generally use Force arrows for undead and Paralyzing for everything else. No doubt some of the problem is between the keyboard and the chair, but as a school headmaster working on my Master's, I'd rather play the game than study the game. But taking 3 hours to do Dreams of Insanity recently (my jumping skills are pathetic--hit a couple of runes, kill beholder, run hide for 10 minutes, miss jump, kill beholder, run hide for 10 minutes, miss jump again, etc.) made me wonder if there was a better way.

Hmm, the Morninglord may be a great idea! My first thought was that I didn't have enough TP for that, but they are 50% right now so that is a possibility. I don't have much upper level content and am saving up for VoT or waiting for it to go on sale. But the Morninglord could pay for itself favor farming fairly fast. (Practicing my alliteration.) I also didn't understand how the iconic heroes work. I assumed you only had 5 class choices, not 19. That sounds ideal for a casual player.

Edit: Oops, nvm. Sale ended a couple of days ago. Bummer!

Couldn't I get FoM with 14 Ranger?

[unbongwah]

5. Death Ward would be nice, which I think means either 7 Cleric, 9 Druid or 14 Paladin.

If you have Tangleroot, you can farm for Flesh Render Guards. Only lasts 7 minutes, but it's not exclusive, so you can farm as many FRGs as you need. If you don't have TRG, some of the divine hirelings have DW.

[For beholders, what you really want is either (A) Deathblock item + level-drain immunity, (B) spell absorption gear so DW doesn't get disspelled, and/or (C) sufficient burst ranged DPS that you can kill them before you get within range of their ray spells & antimagic field.]

8. Some kind of protection against Hold Person.

Warforged / Bladeforged are naturally immune to Hold spells, but you don't have them unlocked, I presume. Otherwise you need either high Will saves or Freedom of Movement. Unfortunately, it looks like only one hire has FoM and she doesn't have DW as well. There are few FoM items, but most of them are either epic items (which does you no good for heroic leveling) or raid gear (which you can't exactly acquire while soloing).

A rogue-splashed ranger will do most of what you want: trap skills, strong archery DPS with melee backup (or vice versa), no need for tomes, FoM. The only problem is archery is still a backloaded combat style, IMHO, which makes heroic leveling tedious. Repeaters are strongest early on, IMO; monk-based shuriken builds start low but finish high.