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[unbongwah]

Here's a big question... when it really comes down to surviving in the game, is it just foolish to be DEX based? Does DEX-based DPS cap out and leave you floundering at higher levels?

The good news is DEX builds are more viable than they used to be. Elves (but not drow) can take the Elven Grace enhancement, which provides DEX-to-dmg with their racial weapons; while halflings can pick up DEX-to-dmg for throwing weapons. Tempests, Assassins, Ninjas, and Swashbucklers all have access to DEX-to-dmg options as well (albeit to specific weapon types and/or combat styles). One of the best ranged DPS options these days is actually DEX-based monks using shurikens.

But the downside is there are still more bonuses to STR than DEX: e.g., Divine Might, Ram's Might, Rage effects, Strong Defense, etc. There's so many STR-specific bonuses in DDO, you practically have to go out of your way to avoid all of them. [E.g., pure rgrs can get +2 STR from Ram's Might and +2 STR from Rage potions early on; in epics they can replace Rage with Primal Scream for +7 STR total.] The only DEX-specific bonus is Shadow Dodge from the Acrobat PrE; and that caps out at +3 DEX.

There are other benefits to going DEX-based, such as higher AC, Reflex saves, and DEX skills. But when it comes to DPS, apart from a few edge cases, STR-based is usually superior to DEX-based. That said, I think the bigger issue for your proposed build is that ranger melee DPS lags behind the recently buffed classes; the STR vs DEX question is less important, IMHO.

[Statham]

That said, I think the bigger issue for your proposed build is that ranger melee DPS lags behind the recently buffed classes; the STR vs DEX question is less important, IMHO.

Well, that's interesting indeed. What is it about ranger melee DPS that makes it inferior? Weak enhancements? Weak spells? Also, are you talking across the board or end-game? I was under the impression that tempest builds were fairly strong. Not so?

'Bigger picture' question... assuming I want to stick with my preferred playstyle of being sneaky and dual wielding and managing traps and such during solo play, is there a better class combo? I mean, honestly, you could tell me "TWF fighter/rogue will out-perform TWF ranger/rogue any day of the week and your raw brutishness will more than make up for your lack of small healing spells" and I would totally buy it.

Of course, context is king. I'm not aiming to build a DPS character for raids so DPS isn't necessarily my first priority. My goal is successful solo play which means being as self-sufficient as possible and being able to handle whatever crosses my path.

Sorry, I know I'm over-thinking this but I actually really enjoy these kinds of discussions. Plus, I'm learning.

[unbongwah]

What is it about ranger melee DPS that makes it inferior?

Mostly it's a lack of crit bonuses: e.g., paladins get Holy Sword, which adds +1 crit range & multiplier to any equipped weapon (e.g., khopesh crit profile goes from 19-20/x3 to 18-20/x4 after HS); rogues get Knife Specialization & Lethality, which also turn daggers & kukris into 18-20/x4 weapons. The best part of Tempest PrE is Growing Storm + Dance of Death, IMHO, but that's not quite enough to make up the difference. Which is why I think one of the strongest Tempest builds is actually rgr 5-6 / pal 14-15, which allows you to harvest the best of both classes: see the Faithsworn Hunter in my drow paladin thread. That's not really the stealthy trapmonkey build you're after, though.

'Bigger picture' question... assuming I want to stick with my preferred playstyle of being sneaky and dual wielding and managing traps and such during solo play, is there a better class combo?

Rog 18+ Assassins got a big boost to melee DPS in the latest update; but pure rogues are still pretty squishy and lack self-healing (unless you play a Dragonmarked halfling), so they're challenging to solo particularly if you're a newbie. Though for some players, the added difficulty is a feature, not a bug.

I mean, honestly, you could tell me "TWF fighter/rogue will out-perform TWF ranger/rogue any day of the week and your raw brutishness will more than make up for your lack of small healing spells" and I would totally buy it.

Actually, ftrs need buffing as much as rgrs do. Starting with U22, Turbine has buffed the other melee classes / PrEs (bards, pallies, barbs, rogs) so much that the unbuffed classes like rgr, ftr, and monk have fallen behind and are waiting their turn for an upgrade.

I'm not aiming to build a DPS character for raids so DPS isn't necessarily my first priority. My goal is successful solo play which means being as self-sufficient as possible and being able to handle whatever crosses my path.

Sure, but if you think about it, high-DPS toons tend to have an easier time soloing: the faster you kill mobs, the less time they have to kill you.

Now, all that said, there's still plenty of room to get creative with builds, particularly if you're not obsessed with minmaxing your DPS by chasing after the latest Flavor of the Month. Here's a revamped version of an old build concept: DEX-based halfling rgr 15 / rog 5 (Tempest / Assassin).

Jorasco Commando
15/5 Ranger/Rogue
True Neutral Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue           6. Ranger         11. Ranger         16. Ranger
2. Ranger          7. Rogue          12. Ranger         17. Ranger
3. Ranger          8. Ranger         13. Rogue          18. Ranger
4. Rogue           9. Ranger         14. Ranger         19. Ranger
5. Ranger         10. Rogue          15. Ranger         20. Ranger


Stats
               28pt     Level Up
               ----     --------
Strength         8       4: DEX
Dexterity       20       8: DEX
Constitution    14      12: DEX
Intelligence    12      16: DEX
Wisdom           8      20: DEX
Charisma         8      24: DEX
                        28: DEX

Skills
         Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Search    4  1  1     2  1     2  1     2  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      3  2  1     2  1     2  1     2  1     1  2  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4        3        3        3        3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Concent      4  1     3  1     2  1     2  1     2     1  1  1  1  1  22
Disable   4        3        3        3        3     1  1  1  1  1  1  22
Open Lo   4        3        3        3        3                       16
Hide      4     2        2        2        2                          12
Move Si   4     2        2        2        2                          12
Balance   4                                                            4
Jump      4                                                            4
Heal                           1        1                              2
Tumble    1                                                            1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         36  7  7  9  7  7  9  7  7  9  7  7  9  7  7  7  7  7  7  7


Feats

 1        : Least Dragonmark: Healing
 2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
 3        : Weapon Finesse (swap for Quick Draw later)
 6        : Precision
 8 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
 9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
12        : Empower Healing Spell
15        : Point Blank Shot
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
18        : Improved Critical: Thrown
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elf
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Combat Archery
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Doubleshot


Enhancements (80 AP)

Halfling (12 AP)

Halfling Luck
Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning I
Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Break out the Leeches, Halfling Guile
Greater Dragonmark of Healing

Assassin (38 AP)

Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back
Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Shiv III, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
Venomed Blades II, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
Sneak Attack Training
Execute, Killer III, Weakening Strikes, Sneak Attack Training
Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Deadly Strikes, Knife Specialization

Tempest (24 AP)

Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
Bleed Them Out III, Whirling Blades, Haste Boost III
Whirling Blades
The Growing Storm III

Deepwood Stalker (6 AP)

Far Shot, Sneak Attack
Stealthy III, Tendon Cut I

Halfling provides Dragonmarks for extra healing and Guile for extra sneak atk. Rgr 15 provides 4 Favored Enemies and two lvl 4 spell slots (FoM & CSW).;while Tempest provides +20% offhand, Growing Storm, and a few other DPS bonuses. Assassin provides more DPS bonuses: extra SAs, Killer, Venomed Blades, and Knife Specialization for the crit bonuses. [Assassinate is used for the +10d6 SA, not the instakill; with so few rog lvls, your DC will be too low to be viable. Likewise Poison Strikes is used just to apply Assassin's Mark for Weakening+Deadly Strikes.] DWS provides more SA, increased PBS range, and some Pos Spellpower; if I had 5 more APs to spare, I'd also take Exposing Strike. She uses throwing daggers instead of bows because Dagger in the Back and Knife Spec applies to them as well as regular daggers; also throwing weapons benefit more from Doubleshot bonuses like Killer and ED feat. Total SA is 3d6 (rog lvls) + 4d6 (Assassin) + 1d6 (Guile) + 3d6 (DWS) = 11d6 SA.

Because of how I've staggered out the rog & rgr lvls, Weapon Finesse is necessary early on in order to take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to get DEX-to-dmg. Once you have Dagger in the Back or Graceful Death, you can swap it for Quick Draw. [My recommendation is to do the feat swap NLT lvl 8, b/c the cost in Siberys Shards goes up 10x after that.]

My first draft of this build tried to take Bluff as well, but that stretched my skill pts too thin. But you could trade DEX for INT to get more skill pts.

[Statham]

I really like the look of this Jorasco Commando build. I do have some questions, though...

First, does this build exclusively use dual kukris for melee and throwing daggers for ranged? If so, then...

Because of how I've staggered out the rog & rgr lvls, Weapon Finesse is necessary early on in order to take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to get DEX-to-dmg. Once you have Dagger in the Back or Graceful Death, you can swap it for Quick Draw.

... wouldn't Improved Weapon Finesse be redundant? Aren't your DEX-to-hit and DEX-to-damage already covered via Knife in the Darkness and Dagger in the Back, respectively?

Second, is Lethality not worth taking?

(Forgive me if I'm wrong about any or all of this. I'm going by info that I'm seeing in the DDOwiki.)

As I'm studying this build, it looks as if no other weapon choice (i.e. rapiers) would work because you would lose bonuses and multipliers if you used anything other than daggers or kukris. Is this correct?

Since I'm aiming to play an Elf or Human, I would ideally want to modify this build for either of those races. Human looks really straight forward; just swap out the racial AP. Elf poses a much larger question, however. If you went with Elf, would it be possible to do this build for dual rapiers so that you could take full advantage of Elven Weapon Training? I tried to parse this out on my own and it gets pretty complicated for someone of my limited DDO experience. Weapon Finesse along with Dagger in the Back makes rapiers viable for all to-hit and damage bonuses but you lose the crit multiplier benefit of Knife Spec. It takes both Knife Spec and Lethality to get x4 multiplier on kukris but it seems that x3 is the best you can get if you use rapiers (Lethality would apply). However, Elven Weapon Training would increase your to-hit and damage with rapiers above and beyond what is possible with kukris. So, are the increased to-hit and damage of rapiers worth the reduced crit multiplier? (This is where I'm completely in the dark. How important are crit multipliers?)

[unbongwah]

First, does this build exclusively use dual kukris for melee and throwing daggers for ranged?

It's designed to use melee daggers, hence the ImpCrit:Pierce feat. You can switch to IC:Slash for kukris instead, but there are a lot more named daggers than kukris.

... wouldn't Improved Weapon Finesse be redundant? Aren't your DEX-to-hit and DEX-to-damage already covered via Knife in the Darkness and Dagger in the Back, respectively?

Dagger in the Back isn't acquired until lvl 7 on my build; by taking Finesse at lvl 3, you can also take Imp Weap Finesse from DWS to gain DEX to dmg for lvls 3-6. After you have DitB, you can swap Finesse for Quick Draw, presuming you use just daggers & kukris.

It's just to up your melee DPS for those four levels. Note that if you primarily use a weapon which already provides DEX-to-dmg (e.g., SPD, TAB), you don't need Finesse or DitB.

Second, is Lethality not worth taking?

It certainly is! It is also only available at rog lvl 18, hence my comments about pure rogs getting a big DPS bonus recently.

As I'm studying this build, it looks as if no other weapon choice (i.e. rapiers) would work because you would lose bonuses and multipliers if you used anything other than daggers or kukris. Is this correct?

Once you take Knife Spec, daggers & kukris become the clear winners, yes.

So, are the increased to-hit and damage of rapiers worth the reduced crit multiplier?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: this is a gross oversimplification of the DPS math, but it may help to understand the importance of crit profiles.

Let's presume we're talking about having a 95% hit chance (i.e., you hit on every roll except 1); or that for every 20 swings, you hit 19 times. So you could think of the baseline hit profile as:

01111111111111111112

Where each "1" represents a hit for your average base damage. The "2" represents the crit dmg from using a 20/x2 weapon, which is the weakest option. So 20 swings adds up to 20 times your base dmg.

Now let's suppose we switch to a 19-20/x2 like a dagger. Then it becomes:

01111111111111111122

20 swings now do 21 times your base dmg. Compared to the base 20/x2, this is a 5% increase in DPS: (21 - 20) / 20 = 5%.

So your proposed elf rog / rgr using rapiers: 18-20/x2 base crit profile -> 15-20/x2 w/Improved Crit:Piercing. There are no other crit bonuses available to this particular build, so its dmg profile looks like:

01111111111111222222

Or 25 times base dmg every 20 swings, which is +25% DPS from the baseline: (25 - 20) / 20 = 25%.

My build, OTOH, with daggers is: 19-20/x2 base -> 18-20/x3 Knife Spec -> 15-20/x3 IC:Pierce.

01111111111111333333

Which is 31 times base dmg, or +55% DPS over the baseline and +24% over rapiers: (31 - 25) / 25 = 24%.

As I said, this is an extremely simple example: it doesn't consider crit bonuses like Seeker, which favor weapons with better crit specs; nor do I factor in sneak atks, which would be almost the same. But in practice, the +4 dmg from elf racial bonuses and the +SA dmg from halfling basically even out; so it's the crit bonuses from Knife Spec which give my halfling the edge.

The advantage of going elf instead of halfling would be getting DEX to longbow dmg from Elven Grace, which would open you back up to using Manyshot.

[Statham]

So your proposed elf rog / rgr using rapiers: 18-20/x2 base crit profile -> 15-20/x2 w/Improved Crit:Piercing. There are no other crit bonuses available to this particular build, so its dmg profile looks like:

01111111111111222222

Or 25 times base dmg every 20 swings, which is +25% DPS from the baseline: (25 - 20) / 20 = 25%.

My build, OTOH, with daggers is: 19-20/x2 base -> 18-20/x3 Knife Spec -> 15-20/x3 IC:Pierce.

01111111111111333333

Which is 31 times base dmg, or +55% DPS over the baseline and +24% over rapiers: (31 - 25) / 25 = 24%.

I totally understand what you're getting at here. Even though over-simplified, it's a great illustration. Applying these crit averages to the appropriate average weapon damage, wouldn't we get:

rapier average base damage is 3.5 + 25% = 4.375

dagger average base damage is 2.5 + 55% = 3.875

Wouldn't rapiers still dish out more hurt despite the lower crits?

Are we having fun yet?

[unbongwah]

rapier average base damage is 3.5 + 25% = 4.375

dagger average base damage is 2.5 + 55% = 3.875

Wouldn't rapiers still dish out more hurt despite the lower crits?

Here's where you need to factor in your total dmg mod, which is when you discover that your base weapon dmg die is actually a fairly small contributor to your DPS. E.g., let's suppose you have a base dmg mod of +20 (+5 weapon + 40 DEX) using standard 1[W] weapons; with the rapier getting an extra +4 from elf enhs. Then it becomes:

Rapier: (20 + 4 + 3.5) * 125% = 34.375
Dagger: (20 + 2.5) * 155% = 34.875

So they're pretty close to start, but daggers pull slightly ahead. Now let's say your base dmg is +30 with 2[W] weapons:

Rapier: (30 + 4 + 2*3.5) * 125% = 51.25
Dagger: (30 + 2*2.5) * 155% = 54.25

You can see daggers pulling even further ahead here. And it keeps going like that; the higher you boost your base dmg mod, the more you benefit from Knife Spec's higher crit dmg. And that's before you factor in Seeker, Burst, etc. dmg effects, which also benefit from the higher crit multiplier.

There's also the question of other build tradeoffs: my build spends 12 APs in the halfling tree; if you switched to elf with Elven Grace, you would need to spend at least 18 APs (probably 19 to get Skill as well for +3% doublestrike). That means you need to take those APs from elsewhere, like Assassin or DWS.

Now if you go elf, all is not lost: you could start with rapiers to benefit from the higher base dmg + elf enhs; then switch to daggers after you take Knife Spec, at which point your base dmg is hopefully high enough to make up the difference.

[Statham]

See, these are the kinds of delicious details I love learning about.

Thank you so much, unbongwah, for helping me wrap my head around this build. I'm going to roll out as a human with this and just swap the racial AP and stick with daggers. I know Halfling is a stronger choice but I just can't play a Halfling. It's a roleplaying thing.

Very excited to get this character underway.

[martryn]

I'd like to request a build if requests are still being filled. My tight-knit group of players are about to true rez for the first time. Since we try to run a "balanced" party, we talk about our roles beforehand, and I've been given the job as divine caster/healer. Looking for ideas, I noticed that the warpriest did not get any love in any builds, and since we're pretty casual, I thought I'd give the warpriest some love. I'd like to see an effective warpriest with the following stipulations:
1. Tier 5 Warpriest Enhancements must be taken.
2. Not gear dependent, airship buff dependent, or tome dependent.
3. One past life as a rogue.
4. Heroic levels only.
5. And, to spice it up, make it a half-elf.

[unbongwah]

1. Tier 5 Warpriest Enhancements must be taken.
2. Not gear dependent, airship buff dependent, or tome dependent.
3. One past life as a rogue.
4. Heroic levels only.
5. And, to spice it up, make it a half-elf.

First idea which occurs to me: take Axel's THF cleric and convert it to HE using scimitars with either SWF or TWF instead.

Melee feats: SWF or TWF x3, IC:Slash, Overwhelming Crit, Power Atk or Precision
Metamagics: Quicken, Empower Heal, Maximize, Empower
Enhancements: 30+ in WP, 13+ in RS, 13 in SD, 4 in Kensei, at least 8 in KotC (Exalted Cleave)

[martryn]

First idea which occurs to me: take Axel's THF cleric and convert it to HE using scimitars with either SWF or TWF instead.

Melee feats: SWF or TWF x3, IC:Slash, Overwhelming Crit, Power Atk or Precision
Metamagics: Quicken, Empower Heal, Maximize, Empower
Enhancements: 30+ in WP, 13+ in RS, 13 in SD, 4 in Kensei, at least 8 in KotC (Exalted Cleave)

I saw that while I was looking for ideas, and I really like it, but then I got on this kick about tier 5 Warpriest enhancements. I don't know if the two can be reconciled. I'm not an experienced enough player to do it.

[martryn]

First time I've used the character planner program, at least to export like this. Is this sorta what you were thinking?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.23.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Kenma 
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Elf Male
(1 Fighter \ 4 Paladin \ 15 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 285
Spell Points: 775 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 22
Reflex: 13
Will: 13

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity            12                    16
Constitution         16                    16
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    16

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15

Level 1 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Undying Court
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Single Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Single Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Healing Domain (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Pacifism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Positive Energy Burst (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Wand Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Radiant Servant (Clr) - Efficient Empower Healing (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Bulwark Aura (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Slayer of Evil I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Exalted Cleave (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Smite Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Resilience of Battle (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sanctuary (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - War Domain: Blur (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Toughness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Sacred Touch (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wall of Steel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Ameliorating Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Righteous Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Power (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Vessel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Vessel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Vessel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Wrathful Weapons (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Magic Backlash (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Magic Backlash (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Magic Backlash (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warpriest (Clr) - Divine Intervention (Rank 1)

[Dagobahlt]

I have returned after being gone since around Underdark. I bought the Uderdark with the Onyx Panther and the Profane Mask. I then got annoyed with the new enhancements and the changes to builds I was following, and due to a busy life I just left.

Well I'm back and looking to have fun soloing when I have the time.
I now find I have a raidbox, LR and LR+20 on every character I once had!!! Even this card collecting thing that I do not know what to do with???

I was lurking the forums and was wondering if this has been drafted?
Fleshie Int Based SWF Arti 16 Jugger-Bard 3 (+1 or +1 other?)

Purpose:
I have dedicated Crafter Human Arti with Maker's DM named Rumple Stiltskin
I am hoping to get him out of the crafting cave and out into the field, but I'd like to keep him as my dedicated crafter. I'd like to keep the DM then, and Enhance respec if needed to return to crafting duties (if the +10 craft bonus is seen as too much of a waste); so, keeping that feat anywhere in the build would be appreciated.

You can gain a big boost to SWF DPS by splashing bard 3-5 for Swashbuckler enhancements; the downsides are losing arty spells & bonus feat(s) and being stuck with Finesseable weapons (might be a problem if you plan to use what's in your TR cache).

I like the idea of a possible Bard 3 Unbongwah mentioned above in the arti thread. The other 1 could be anything including Bard 4 (or Ftr 1 for feat? or other???)
I hope to keep 16 Arti so I can TacDet and BladeBarrier/Deadly and 4 Arti Bonus Feats (and Craft Bonus).
I can get Harpers so Int primary (to KTAngles) and 16 Arti should allow Rune-Arm DPS to help along with the extra crits from SB?

If you want to justify a Arti 15 so I only have TacDet for say Bard 3 Ftr 2 to replace the feat; OK, but I'd rather not. I prefer the RuneArms I have, not a buckler. (I am contemplating a Cleric/Wiz 15 Swashbuckler 3 SWD 2 as a PL for a main, but that can wait... is that already drafted???).

With the raidbox waiting, I was thinking to perhaps keep this guy as a permanent Epic Challenge Farmer ( https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/434231 ).
Would such a farmer be good at lvl 23 so I can use the Raidbox (and what weapon? the Balizarde, Agony or Celestia (for Bard Crit bonus on the BastardSword)? Or is it best to stay at lv 21? Maxing rewards per run is not a concern, as long as I can run it solo (or with my party mentioned below).

If not Bard for SWF, should I take a Nightmare instead for a SWF Jugger? I've read mixed reports on Nightmare...

Enhancement details would greatly help as I was always, and am even more so now, a noob.

Solo Party Note: I could perhaps get those OwlBears and have up to:
Panther + 2 Owlbears + Hireling + Doggie + Summon so, Augment Summons would also be nice since I prefer 'soloing' so I can AFK or DC for RL Issues/Obligations.
I do not think I will ever be soloing EE. But, with that Augmented party I may give it a try someday if I decide to go beyond trying this as an Epic Challenge Farmer.

Sorry about the wall of text and to many questions...

[unbongwah]

I saw that while I was looking for ideas, and I really like it, but then I got on this kick about tier 5 Warpriest enhancements. I don't know if the two can be reconciled. I'm not an experienced enough player to do it.

Since you've taken a +4 DEX tome, you may wish to consider TWF instead; the main incentive being more healing from Ameliorating Strike, which can also proc on offhand strikes. Normally I would try to work in a rgr splash for Tempest enhs, but that squeezes this build pretty tight, so we'll stick with 15/4/1 split for now.

TWF Valenar Warpriest
15/4/1 Cleric/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Level Order

1. Cleric          6. Cleric         11. Fighter        16. Cleric
2. Paladin         7. Cleric         12. Cleric         17. Cleric
3. Cleric          8. Cleric         13. Cleric         18. Cleric
4. Cleric          9. Paladin        14. Cleric         19. Cleric
5. Cleric         10. Paladin        15. Cleric         20. Paladin


Stats
               34pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       +2       4: STR
Dexterity       14       +4       8: STR
Constitution    14               12: STR
Intelligence    10       +2      16: STR
Wisdom           8               20: STR
Charisma        16               24: STR
                                 28: STR

Skills
          C  P  C  C  C  C  C  C  P  P  F  C  C  C  C  C  C  C  C  P
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Concent   4        2     2  1  2  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       2     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     1     11
Heal                           1           1     2     2     2     2  10
Balance                              1                                 1
Jump                                    1                              1
Tumble       1                                                         1
         ------------------------------------------------------------
          8  2  2  2  2  2  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3  3


Feats

 1        : Empower Healing Spell
 1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Sorcerer
 1 Deity  : Follower of: Undying Court
 3        : Two Weapon Fighting
 6        : Power Attack
 7 Deity  : Undying Call
 9        : Maximize Spell
11 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Slashing
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Quicken Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Empower Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Ruin
28 Destiny: First Blood


Enhancements (80 AP)

Half-Elf (4 AP)

Versatile Nature, Human Strength, Human Damage Boost

Warpriest (35 AP)

Smite Foe, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary, Blur
Divine Might III, Righteous Weapons
Smite Weakness, Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Inflame III, Inflame: Saving Throws II
Righteous Weapons, Inflame: Energy Absorption III
Ameliorating Strike, Righteous Weapons
Divine Vessel III, Wrathful Weapons

Radiant Servant (11 AP)

Healing Domain, Pacifism, Positive Energy Burst
Extra Turning II, Wand Mastery III, Altruism III

Knight of the Chalice (13 AP)

Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
Extra Turning III, Extra Smite II
Exalted Cleave III
Divine Sacrifice I, Exalted Smite I

Sacred Defender (13 AP)

Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Item Defense I, Resilient Defense III
Instinctive Defense I, Durable Defense III
Tenacious Defense III

Kensei (4 AP)

Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades
Haste Boost III

I front-loaded the cleric lvls a bit more than your build, in order to get Ameliorating Strike + Radiant Burst sooner; lvl 9 is when you'll have enough APs for both. Particularly if you plan to be your group's primary healer, it's a good idea to get those sooner rather than later. I probably should've pushed the pally lvls further back for the same reason, since you won't have enough APs for KotC+SD until much later. EDIT: and maybe should consider 15/3/2 split since there aren't enough APs for T4 KotC or SD, which would let you add another feat.

[martryn]

I love you, unbongwah. I can't wait to try it out. This thread is so much FUN!

[unbongwah]

Even this card collecting thing that I do not know what to do with???

Unfortunately, you missed your window of opportunity to do anything with the ACC, there will hopefully be future card events.

Anyway, I'm inferring you want a SWF+caster build, so let's go from there.

If you want to justify a Arti 15 so I only have TacDet for say Bard 3 Ftr 2 to replace the feat; OK, but I'd rather not.

Swashbuckler T5 is a big boost to melee DPS (Thread the Needle+Exploit Weakness+CdG); the downside is losing arty 16 (2nd lvl 6 spell slot, 4th bonus feat, +1 crafter lvl) and T5 Battle Engineer (I hate using RAs w/out Tactical Mobility).

Would such a farmer be good at lvl 23 so I can use the Raidbox (and what weapon? the Balizarde, Agony or Celestia (for Bard Crit bonus on the BastardSword)? Or is it best to stay at lv 21?

Well, as the Epic Farmer thread makes clear, you get more Challenge ingredients the lower your char lvl, presuming you're able to max the difficulty

If not Bard for SWF, should I take a Nightmare instead for a SWF Jugger? I've read mixed reports on Nightmare...

If you go for Nightmare or any other non-Finesseable melee weapon, you gain nothing from Swashbuckler, in which case you might as well drop bard. The problem is no other class / PrE has its DPS bonuses as front-loaded as Swashie, which would

Panther + 2 Owlbears + Hireling + Doggie + Summon so, Augment Summons would also be nice since I prefer 'soloing' so I can AFK or DC for RL Issues/Obligations.

I think this would make things more challenging rather than less, since dungeon scaling applies with hirelings. But if you really want Aug Summons, I would recommend farming an eRoderic and save the feat slot.

So here's one example of what you could do:

Swashoficer
16/3/1 Artificer/Bard/Fighter
True Neutral Human


Level Order

1. Bard            6. Fighter        11. Artificer      16. Artificer
2. Artificer       7. Artificer      12. Artificer      17. Artificer
3. Bard            8. Artificer      13. Artificer      18. Artificer
4. Bard            9. Artificer      14. Artificer      19. Artificer
5. Artificer      10. Artificer      15. Artificer      20. Artificer


Stats
               32pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        12       +1       4: INT
Dexterity        8                8: INT
Constitution    16               12: INT
Intelligence    18               16: INT
Wisdom           8               20: INT
Charisma        10               24: INT
                                 28: INT

Skills
          B  A  B  B  A  F  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A  A
          1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
         ------------------------------------------------------------
Perform   4     2  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Concent   4  1  1  1  1     1  1  1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spellcr   4  1  1  1  1     1  1  1  1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Disable      5        3     1  1  1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Search    2  1        3  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Spot      2                    3  3  3  3  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
UMD       4  1  1  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
Open Lo                                          2  2  3  3  3  3  3  19
Jump      4     2  1     1                                             8
Balance   4     2  1                                                   7
Move Si   4     2  1                                                   7
Swim      4                                                            4
Tumble    4                                                            4
Heal               2                                                   2
         ------------------------------------------------------------
         44  9 11 11  9  7  9 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 11 11 11 11 11


Feats

 1        : Insightful Reflexes
 1 Human  : Least Dragonmark: Making
 3        : Power Attack
 6        : Cleave
 6 Fighter: Great Cleave
 8 Arti   : Single Weapon Fighting
 9        : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12        : Improved Critical: Slashing
12 Arti   : Maximize Spell
15        : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
16 Arti   : Quicken Spell
18        : Spell Focus: Evocation
20 Arti   : Empower Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Empower Healing Spell
26 Destiny: Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Ruin
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Enhancements (80 AP)

Human (3 AP)

Damage Boost
Improved Recovery

Battle Engineer (34 AP)

Battle Engineer, Infused Weapons, Infused Armor, Infused Weapons II
Field Engineer II, Thermal Venting III
Thaumaturgical Conduits III
Disable Construct I, Extra Action Boost III, Arcane Capacitors, Intelligence
Rune Arm Overcharge, Arcane Capacitors, Intelligence
Rune Arm Overcharge, Tactical Mobility

Arcanotechnician (13 AP)

Arcanotechnician, Palliative Admixture, Thaumaturgical Battery
Spell Critical, Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Spell Critical, Shocking Vulnerability I
Spell Critical

Swashbuckler (13 AP)

Confidence, Swashbuckling
On Your Toes I, Blow By Blow: Melee III
Deflect Arrows, Fast Movement
Elegant Footwork, Cannoneer

Kensei (4 AP)

Kensei Focus: Light Blades
Haste Boost III

Harper Agent (13 AP)

Agent of Good I
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Versatile Adept III, Know the Angles III
Versatile Adept II


Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
Momentum Swing III, Imp. Power Attack
Lay Waste, Critical Damage III
Anvil of Thunder
Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
Master's Blitz, Headman's Chop

Twists of Fate (12 fate points)

Energy Burst: Electricity (Tier 4 Draconic)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

LD specced for handaxes, hence IC:Slash + Headman's Chop + Anvil of Thunder. If you wished to use a different weapon, you'll need to spec accordingly.

[katana_one]

Background:
Been running in a static group and we're about to TR for the second time. First two lives were spent as a Drow Assassin Rogue. Other party roles are already covered for next life, and I'm taking on the role of trapper again. Looking to change it up a little for my 3rd life. I was thinking about an AA ranger/rogue split. Maybe 12 or more levels in ranger AA, and the rest as rogue for sneaky damage and skills (I love skills). Can this be both viable at end game and still fun? I don't need it to be top DPS - since its a casual static group, we're a little more forgiving on gimpy-ness than a hard-core raiding group. I am VIP, should that factor into anyone's suggestions.

TL/DR:
Request for suggestions on an Arcane Archer/Trapper flavor build for 3rd life to run with a static group.

[sassyirishbytch29]

I haven't played in a few years I have an old build of yours the acrobat it was a fighter paladin rogue made to do all sorts of epic awesome tricks and be a pretty solid trapsmith for end game stuff as well. Please help me I can't find the build and I really want to work on her again she was one of my favorite builds you've done so far. <3 Thanks so bunches all my love and much respect for the work that you do for gimps like me who don't know any better haha! <3

She is also dual wielding khopesh's if that helps you remember which build I'm talking about.

[Lorianus]

TL/DR:
Request for suggestions on an Arcane Archer/Trapper flavor build for 3rd life to run with a static group.

You could use one of the older Monkcher builds, those still work fine, they are just not top DPS anymore. 12monk/6ranger/2 rogue or 12ranger/6monk/2rogue should both be viable. I run a pure mechanic at the moment and it's the best ranged trapper I ever had. Verry simple to build and gear too.

Do you have the Harper tree? It's quite nicht for trappers because you can get INT to damage for all weapons.

[unbongwah]

Request for suggestions on an Arcane Archer/Trapper flavor build for 3rd life to run with a static group.

Monkcher is still the default choice for most AA builds, IMHO; but you have a lot of options here, which mostly depend on how many rog lvls you want (i.e., do you want another rog PL or some other class), what tomes you've taken, etc. Being VIP means access to Harper, so INT-based dmg becomes an option in addition to conventional STR or DEX to dmg. My first thought is a rog-based monkcher, like the classic rog 13 / monk 6 / <splash> 1 split. Of course, if you want truly gimp, you could go pure rogue.

She is also dual wielding khopesh's if that helps you remember which build I'm talking about.

Paladin is pretty strong these days, thanks to the Update 23 buffage. Have a look at my drow paladin thread for a couple of TWF options.