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[unbongwah]

- SWF fighting when she has to, but largely avoiding fighting.

No offense, but given that DDO is 99% combat, what does your friend expect to do most of the time? Buffing is pre-combat activity, usually, and there's only so much CCing to be done.

[Crann]

I have an old 18 Druid, 2 Monk human at level 23 (Lawful Neutral) with both boxes and an LR+20. I am really interested in trying something new, as I have a bad case of Altism.

What I don't want, because I already have:
12f/6M/2P Cleaver Cleaving Pinion Fury shooting BF.
Shiradi Sorc
Melee Cleric
Caster Druid
Bard
Rogue Assassin


I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.

[Nodoze]

I have an old 18 Druid, 2 Monk human at level 23 (Lawful Neutral) with both boxes and an LR+20. I am really interested in trying something new, as I have a bad case of Altism.

What I don't want, because I already have:
12f/6M/2P Cleaver Cleaving Pinion Fury shooting BF.
Shiradi Sorc
Melee Cleric
Caster Druid
Bard
Rogue Assassin


I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.

If you haven't tried the following I highly recommend them for at least one life:

- Pure Artificer (Human build with FotW for max DPS & you could use a Needle); Note that I actually did the Pure Artificer WF 007 build in Shadow Dancer when I wanted Evasion or FotW for max DPS);

- Full Monk Shuriken thower (Shiradi Shuricannon Drow recommended in Divine Crusader or Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);

- Hybrid Throwers:
- 12M/5Wiz/3Rogue Halfling (Meteor 1 in Shadow Dancer or Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);
- 9Rogue/6Monk/5Wiz Halfling (Meteor 2 in Shadow Dancer);
- 11Wiz/6Monk/3Rogue Warforged (WarCannon in Shiradi with Celestia as an offhand);

Of the above I have leveled to cap multiple times the Artie, Warcannon, & Meteor1 and want to do the full monk version after I make Displacement GS Clickies for that character... I have not tried and don't plan to do the Meteor2 as it is similar to Meteor 1 but think it is a good option if you are focusing on single target boss DPS for Raids.

Sorry only one of the above is Human based as I was initially thinking you were planning on TRing until I reread and saw you were thinking of using your +20...

That being said you could LR+20 into the Human Artie and then TR into one of the others...

That is essentially what I did in that I did a few lives as Arties (using my first box on a Needle) and then I TRed into a thrower for a couple of lives (i did WF Wiz but you can get a Monk, Wiz, or Rogue past life depending on which build you take) and I used my second box on a Celestia... I liked the thrower concept with offhand Celestia so much that we TRed another character on one of my other accounts that also had Celestia into a Meteor1 and my daughers and I run them as a throwing duo for max chaos with minimal SP (both are currently in Shiradi with Celestia's in offhands and Meteoric Star Rubys in the TF Shuriken to there are lots of CC procs)...

That plan of attack would give you an option/reason to try two different CitW weapons...

[Caprice]

I was thinking along the lines of an 8F/9M/3D TWF'ing Nightmares, or something sneak attacky with Celestia's. Leaning more towards Nightmares after reading some threads about neg leveling in Epic content....it still works....right?

Any ideas are welcome.

What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they? As of Update 20 (November 2013) level draining was nerfed heavily to be a chance on crit rather than being guaranteed, at which point Nightmare became a much less powerful weapon. It isn't useless but it isn't the powerhouse that it was. I can't recall seeing anyone really formulate any "big name" builds around it anymore like they once did prior to that nerf.

These days the equivalent melee "role" is played by getting a Thunder-forged weapon with the Mortal Fear tier 3 enchantment which has a 5% crash to halve the HP of any non-named foe you hit. That requires ML28 but your weapon choice doesn't matter as much since you can pick your own.

[Nodoze]

What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they? As of Update 20 (November 2013) level draining was nerfed heavily to be a chance on crit rather than being guaranteed, at which point Nightmare became a much less powerful weapon. It isn't useless but it isn't the powerhouse that it was. I can't recall seeing anyone really formulate any "big name" builds around it anymore like they once did prior to that nerf.

These days the equivalent melee "role" is played by getting a Thunder-forged weapon with the Mortal Fear tier 3 enchantment which has a 5% crash to halve the HP of any non-named foe you hit. That requires ML28 but your weapon choice doesn't matter as much since you can pick your own.

I remember hearing Nightmares were nerfed but since I never really built around them (before/after) I couldn't remember the specifics and was hoping someone would provide the correct guidance. On that topic many of the CitW weapons have been superseded by ThunderForged (TF) weapons. From memory the Zues build still uses Sireth and Santa's little slayer stayed with Balizard though many other builds went to TF weapons...

The Heavy Hybrid SWF Soul build (u22-u23) is Human or PDK based and can be run with multiple weapons but the builder was really intrigued by Celestia for long boss fights due to +50% increased damage from Shield of Condemnation. If +50% damage got him that excited I would love to hear what he thinks were he to get the full +110% damage that is possible with Celestia with the right build in the Raid.

[Crann]

What neg level threads were you reading and how recent are they?

A lot of what I read was late 2013, probably before the nerf you spoke of. I was aware of them not working on every crit....but have seen them proc fairly often running in a few pugs lately. I realize the Thunderforged stuff is likely better now, but it seems a shame to leave those boxes unopened I have a few builds with Sireth's, looking for a TWF build, if anything for nostalgic reasons, lol. I was considering doing a Rogue/monk type build with Celestias as well, but then read about some problems with them not having a red slot, and weapon effects interfering with their abilities.

[Nodoze]

A lot of what I read was late 2013, probably before the nerf you spoke of. I was aware of them not working on every crit....but have seen them proc fairly often running in a few pugs lately. I realize the Thunderforged stuff is likely better now, but it seems a shame to leave those boxes unopened I have a few builds with Sireth's, looking for a TWF build, if anything for nostalgic reasons, lol. I was considering doing a Rogue/monk type build with Celestias as well, but then read about some problems with them not having a red slot, and weapon effects interfering with their abilities.

Celestias are finiky and often combos that look good on paper end (like Drow Warpiest) up ruining their breaking all DR capabilities. If you can find a combo that works they can be fun though and they are unique in the game (for example a single Celestia can get Glancing Blows like a Bastard Sword with a shield).

There are some pretty cool TWF builds that use Morhns though I am not sure if they are updated for u22 let alone u23...

...or dual Balizards or Balizard/Agony-or-other-off hand...

[Caprice]

IIUC the proc rate on level drains dropped to about a third what it had been. That said Nightmare still seems like a solid weapon, but it has gone out of vogue.

As Nodoze says, Celestia is great but I think I'll call it more buggy than just finicky. Lots of bonuses seem to change its damage type from Light to Magic and thus stop it from ignoring DR, including most things that add to its Enhancement bonus (e.g. Warpriest, the Enchant Weapon spell from Artificers or Bard Warchanter), as well as a number of Epic Destiny abilities. The lack of a red slot is a drawback but not the end of the world. You cannot slot Devotion (or Repair) for self-healing and you cannot put any of the nice AoE proc on hit augments (e.g. Meteoric Star Ruby). The former you can address by having a swap weapon or slot it elsewhere with the right drops (e.g. Gauntlet of Immortality, Shamanic Fetish, or Ring of Master Artifice for WF/BF). The latter issue you are stuck with. However the Raider's Reward Box items come as unattuned, don't they? You'll need 25 Commendations of Heroism (BtC) and 375 PDK rep to upgrade a base CitW weapon to the point where it has a slot, which is going to take a while to accumulate. It may only be worth planning a build around unlocking the slot if you are going to Epic Reincarnate in your current life a great many times, and as a fellow altaholic I'm going to guess that's unlikely. So I would suggest that you should not focus on that too much.

Nodoze is suggesting some good builds but I think you won't be able to achieve some due to the 3-class cap during LRs. Do you remember at which levels you picked Monk? The 8F/9M/3D you mentioned in your first post should work, as will the Shuricannon and pure Artificer, but the Noyellowbar, Santa's Little Helper, and the Hybrid Throwers won't. You might also consider a Monkcher build, although you would probably have to do something slightly unusual to adjust to your LR limitations. Also anything with Paladin levels will require a double-LR because Paladins must be Lawful Good but Druids must be semi-Neutral. Thus you would have to LR out the Druid levels entirely, then do an alignment change to Lawful Good, and then LR again into the Paladin levels, which may not be worth it to you.

An alternative would be to go with an "I can do anything really well" Druid build like this one. You'd use your raider's boxes for an Agony for yourself and an Antipode for your Wolf (which you then convert into a collar via the House C Device Workstation). Once the armor changes kick in in the next update it should be more effective than ever.

[Nephylim3]

So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.

[Nodoze]

...lots of good info (not surprisingly)...

Good points as I was focusing on the human and weapon angles but wasn't thinking about that even with the LR+20 the 3 class limit still applies. Many of those builds are not direct fits but I hoping maybe something jumps out at him and a build could be found or adapted. Thanks for linking the Druid build as I read some of it and liked it and subscribed to it.

[Nodoze]

So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.

Have you thought about what Epic Destiny you want to play in? Fleshies seem to have lots of synergy with Divine Crusader but Bladeforged with their Reconstruct SLA and repair spells as Paladin spells seem very strong in many destinies.

I did read multiple threads on the changes but haven't had time to get into the test servers nor read many of the threads. I do remember Paladin with Rogue splashes being discussed as the most dominant option until I they changed the Holy Sword bonus (IIRC it is now competence or something like that) so the Rogue route isn't totally over powered (but still sounds strong). Sorry that I barely have time to keep up with the threads I have subscribed that I really don't go searching for new threads and often don't see new threads until they get linked to in another thread that I am already following... I don't know the timing of U23 dropping but I imagine with all the action on the test server that people should be sharing builds soon (if they haven't already). If I see one (or Carpone or Unbongwah or someone links one) I will try to report back and share any insights I may have...

[Nephylim3]

Have you thought about what Epic Destiny you want to play in? Fleshies seem to have lots of synergy with Divine Crusader but Bladeforged with their Reconstruct SLA and repair spells as Paladin spells seem very strong in many destinies.

I did read multiple threads on the changes but haven't had time to get into the test servers nor read many of the threads. I do remember Paladin with Rogue splashes being discussed as the most dominant option until I they changed the Holy Sword bonus (IIRC it is now competence or something like that) so the Rogue route isn't totally over powered (but still sounds strong). Sorry that I barely have time to keep up with the threads I have subscribed that I really don't go searching for new threads and often don't see new threads until they get linked to in another thread that I am already following... I don't know the timing of U23 dropping but I imagine with all the action on the test server that people should be sharing builds soon (if they haven't already). If I see one (or Carpone or Unbongwah or someone links one) I will try to report back and share any insights I may have...

Divine Crusader was the exact ED that I was going to go for ironically. Just fits the build so well overall. I've not seen any build layouts of this specific mix, although I have been searching. I'm hoping someone can shed some light onto it as it sounds like a real blast to play though. I've tried to piecemeal one together but it's just not coming out well. I tend to get stuck on feats/level order more than anything in this setup.

[Nodoze]

Divine Crusader was the exact ED that I was going to go for ironically. Just fits the build so well overall. I've not seen any build layouts of this specific mix, although I have been searching. I'm hoping someone can shed some light onto it as it sounds like a real blast to play though. I've tried to piecemeal one together but it's just not coming out well. I tend to get stuck on feats/level order more than anything in this setup.

I remember the 14Paladin/5Rogue/1Monk or 15Paladin/5Rogue splits were the foregone conclusion in the Paladin revamp threads until they decided to make Holy Sword into a Competence bonus so it wouldn't stack with the Rogue TA T5 Staff Specialization... I suspect those splits can still be viable but since the are no longer OP the fever has died down but I will keep an eye out for one for you...

Divine Crusader appears solid and seems most synergistic on a Fleshie (though a BF could also run in DC). If you are interested in Divine Crusader, while looking for a Paladin/Rogue build, you may want to read the following threads on builds using Divine Crusader:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-%28U22-U23%29

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ader-Warpriest

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...vs-18-Pal-2%29

It seems they get the most out of Divine Crusader by mixing in spell/effect damage with their melee and interestingly some of them really don't use any heroic spells focusing on just spells/SLAs/effects from the Epic levels. I am wondering how all the new Paladin abilities are implemented and whether they may be able mix in some of the spell/healing techniques with their physical benefits while in Divine Crusader and would look for synergy there...

[Drakyes_01]

hello,
Was wondering if u can help me w/ a build, have a 2nd life monk sitting around lvl4 that I intended to be pure wrap user but never play w/ him. Want to make him into a staff user since I have a sireth laying around and seem like q-staff build are good. Don't care if he stay pure or multi-class (i.e rogue, druid,etc) but want to still have the monk icon. He is human, guess he'll be str-based?, don't have much gear but have the staff from threnal. Want to have Cleave/G. cleave since I like cleave n pressing some button instead of just swinging. He currently lawful neutral but since an alignment change to LG cost only 495 (have 361 atm) should able to buy one soon. plan on using a lesser heart so the first 4 lvl must be monk. For tome, just +3 to str, +5 to wisdom and +2 to everything else. Goals is to play in EH mostly but can do some easier EE in a group.
Any other advice would be great.

[Caprice]

So the idea came when I was realizing that I had an epic TR and a heroic TR coming within a couple weeks - give or take with my group. I've wanted to try a quarterstaff build and get a paladin life in, and next patch looks to be along the lines to try and make it. The idea I have for a character is either a 15 Paladin / 5 rogue or a 14 paladin / 5 rogue / 1 monk. I'm more partial to the first build as it gives me some trapping skills and retains the paladin holy sword/zeal. Ideally this build would be in heavy armor which, while losing evasion, I would hope to make up for with MRR, or a swap set in case I needed it. It would also have +5 tomes to all stats already.

I imagine what I need help with is how to setup the character (I'm thinking human), and more importantly feat/enhancement setup. I figured a fair amount of my points would drop into knight of the chalice and thief acrobat, which would yield lots of bonuses and cleaves via KOTC. I'm hoping this board can help me put together this idea in a real form, as thus far trying to set it up has not been my strong suit, aside from character concept.

These won't be valid for U23, but as starting points for ideas people have had there are Unbongwah's Pld14/Rog5/Ftr1 Knight of the Holy Stick, Willan's Pld9/Mnk6/Rog5 Divine Staff (found near the bottom), and Cardtrick's giant collection of ideas. Unbongwah's thread includes a nice list of staves by level and Willan's includes suggestions on initial and late game epic gearing (albeit the latter is a bit outdated since it does not include Haunted Halls/FTP/ToTD items).

One of the compensations we get from switching Holy Sword to a Competence bonus is that Rogue 5 does not give much to a Paladin anymore so you can cut back on the Rogue levels or splash a second class. Rogue 1 gives you the key "Thief Acrobatics" enhancement for +15% attack speed with Quarterstaves, and Rogue 2 gives Evasion and a second key enhancement "Quick Strike" that gives you +25% doublestrike with extremely high uptime (10 seconds out of 12) and potentially Haste Boost. However after that, while there are good abilities in the later tiers they are not nearly as important to the effectiveness of a staff build as those first two tiers are.

So some questions on your situation & goals:
- You mention Human so I guess you are all starting at level 1 rather than rolling Iconics, right?
- Are you going to be the group's primary trapper? If so are you going to be maintaining an Elite Bravery Bonus streak throughout? I ask because that raises the bar on your trap skills.
- 34-point or 36-point build?

[Caprice]

EllisDee37 put numbers to the challenge of making a Paladin-based character a trapper in this post in his/her Evasion Paladin thread. It includes a level by level layout of levels and skill points spent to keep up trap skills.

[Nephylim3]

These won't be valid for U23, but as starting points for ideas people have had there are Unbongwah's Pld14/Rog5/Ftr1 Knight of the Holy Stick, Willan's Pld9/Mnk6/Rog5 Divine Staff (found near the bottom), and Cardtrick's giant collection of ideas. Unbongwah's thread includes a nice list of staves by level and Willan's includes suggestions on initial and late game epic gearing (albeit the latter is a bit outdated since it does not include Haunted Halls/FTP/ToTD items).

One of the compensations we get from switching Holy Sword to a Competence bonus is that Rogue 5 does not give much to a Paladin anymore so you can cut back on the Rogue levels or splash a second class. Rogue 1 gives you the key "Thief Acrobatics" enhancement for +15% attack speed with Quarterstaves, and Rogue 2 gives Evasion and a second key enhancement "Quick Strike" that gives you +25% doublestrike with extremely high uptime (10 seconds out of 12) and potentially Haste Boost. However after that, while there are good abilities in the later tiers they are not nearly as important to the effectiveness of a staff build as those first two tiers are.

So some questions on your situation & goals:
- You mention Human so I guess you are all starting at level 1 rather than rolling Iconics, right?
- Are you going to be the group's primary trapper? If so are you going to be maintaining an Elite Bravery Bonus streak throughout? I ask because that raises the bar on your trap skills.
- 34-point or 36-point build?

We are all epic TRing and then doing a Heroic TR afterwards. As much as I would love to drop into an iconic none of them seem to want to TR into iconics at this time, so I will be starting from level 1.
Ideally I am trying to remain as the groups trapper, albeit it's not set that I will need to be. We would intend to keep elite bravery bonus however, which I know makes the requirements much higher.
This would be a 34 point build as its my first TR.

Those threads look to be able to give me some ideas as well. Obviously with U23 a fair amount of them builds will change, but I'm excited and interested none the less. Thanks Caprice!

[Caprice]

I'd forgotten that the Paladin spell slot progression is set up so that levels 16-18 are almost a wasteland. Paladin 19 gives the 3rd level 4 spell but dropping to Rogue 1 means a stiff DPS loss that I would not want to take. Paladin 18 is still good for the KotC core (adds another +2d6 Light damage, +500 dmg vs. undead on a natural 20), but with only 2 Rogue levels your skillpoints will at best cover 3 Rogue skills (from Spot, Search, Disable Device, Open Locks, and UMD; i.e. most likely Spot/Search/Disable or Search/Disable/UMD if you can live without Spot) and no Paladin skills. I started figuring out skills based on Human (+1 skill point / level) with 16 INT and a +5 INT tome, which is the most you are going to be able to fit in without starting to undermine your combat abilities. So I guess I am falling back to recommending that Paladin15/Rogue4+1 split idea since you don't really lose any spell slots worth worrying over and you can fill out the Rogue skills a lot better with the extra levels.

Also, thinking about Feats, now that you don't really need Cleave and Great Cleave on a deep Paladin build, you don't really need extra feats on a DPS Paladin. The main things I would want are THF, ITHF, GTHF, IC:Blunt, Power Attack, Empower Heal, and Quicken, and those all fit in the 7 basic heroic feat slots. For Epic feats you will want Overwhelming Critical, but the feat at 24 is up for grabs too. The two Epic Destiny feats could be Perfect THF & TWF for the most DPS-y option, or whatever fits your fancy. As usual the level 27 feat pick should go to one of the special level 27-only feats (e.g. Epic Reflexes, Blinding Speed). So the level 24 feat, Human feat (if you go Human), and any other class feats you pick up are basically optional.

As a Human the Dragonmark of Passage (for 25% Runspeed at low levels, and DDoor later) or DM of Finding (chest buffing, and the Knock DM might make giving up Open Locks more palatable) would be good choices. I am not sure that Stunning Blow will work well in Elites without any serious tactics DC improvements so I hesitate to suggest it, but you can consider it. Can anyone else give some feedback on that? If you do take a class level that grants a feat you can fit in a pair of related feats, like Dodge & Mobility (+5% Dodge, 2% of which ignores your armor's Dodge limit) or Combat Expertise & Improved Trip, but I am not sure that I would call those compelling. If all else fails just stuff in some Toughness feats for extra HP, or you can even take Magical Training as a feat for the extra SP and Echoes to power endless Cocoons in epic levels (if you don't get this via a splash).

So considering some ideas for that +1 level on the Pld15/Rog4/+1 split:

• Taking the +1 level as Rogue 5 lets you fill in the Rogue skills a bit better and adds another Sneak Attack die. It offers no feats or additional enhancement options that you should care about.
• Monk gives a free feat and access to extra enhancements. Unfortunately the Monk feat list is pretty limited and it seems like it does not really work out well in this case since it left me with an early feat slot that has no good feats available to take (except maybe Dodge or Deflect Arrow). Besides do you really want to live with that annoying red ! all the time for being uncentered?
• Fighter also gives a free feat and access to extra enhancements. The feat list is pretty generous and it works well here. You can take Fighter 1 around level 7 or 8 and move down the levels at which you take ITHF, IC:Blunt, and GTHF by 2-3 levels each and that leads to a much smoother feat progression across the heroic levels. It also gives you access to Haste Boost for fewer AP than your other options. This is one of the better splash choices.
• Wizard gives free Magical Training (extra SP and it always regenerates to at least 12SP) and 1 free Metamagic feat (e.g. Extend or Quicken). It also opens access to a cheap SLA (probably Shield for Magic Missile & Force Missile immunity) and it gives access to a couple of unusual items that require levels in an Arcane class. This is another decent choice IMO, although it does not help make the heroic feat progression easier.
• Druid is sometimes popular on staff builds too; you don't get a feat choice out of it but you do get free Magical Training, like with Wizard. However it also lets you cast Ram's Might for a stacking +2 STR and +2 Damage, and Shillelagh will increase the damage of a wooden Quarterstaff by +1[W]. However most of the better staves are not wooden (e.g. Theurgic, Sireth; SOWS is the best one that is) so that's not such a big benefit in the long run. I used to like this one but I am less fond of it now.

As usual there are many more enhancements available than AP to spend. So far I am liking:
Human w/ DM of Passage (7 AP): Skill Boost (could change to Damage Boost for better DPS eventually), Improved Recovery, DM Focus 2, Lesser DM (DDoor)
Knight of the Chalice (40 AP): Cores 1-4, Extra Turning, Extra & Exalted & Empowered Smites, both Cleaves, Divine Might, Improved Restoration, Divine Sacrifice & Passion, Vigor of Life, Sealed Life
Sacred Defender (11 AP): Cores 1-2, Extra LoH, Durable Defense, Resilient Defense
Thief Acrobat (18 AP): Core 1, Staff Training, Thief Acrobatics, Quick Strike, Haste Boost

For reference the proposed new Paladin trees are found at Sacred Defender and Knight of the Chalice.

At 76 AP spent that leaves 4 AP for optionals. I am thinking about +2 to STR, another Staff Training & No Mercy 2, Action Boost: Damage (from Human after taking STR+1, or from KotC), Censure Demons & Outsiders (in the right content, e.g. Amrath, the Vale of Twilight, Demonweb), Improved Glancing Blows, or maybe splitting the points between Human Skill Focuses "Awareness" and "Nimble Fingers" for easier trapping. If you want the DM of Finding you need to spend 12 AP in Human to get the Greater Dragonmark. I would drop Haste Boost to 2 ranks and spend the leftovers in Human to make up the difference, with 1 AP left over for something minor.

If you splash Fighter 1 then you can drop Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat (saving you 6 AP) and take it cheaper in Kensei instead (for 4 AP total). You could invest the 6 AP elsewhere or put them into Kensei Extra Action Boost to get more Hastes and Skill Boosts, or meshes well with taking the DM of Finding, since saving the AP on the cheaper Haste Boost frees up enough to get to the next tier of DM. Your Kensei Focus Group probably should be Druidic; Quarterstaves are covered under both Druidic and Martial Arts Kensei but you won't have proficiency in any other weapon covered by Martial Arts.

If you splash Wizard 1 then I would recommend putting 1 AP into Archmage Specialization I: Abjuration (Shield, which grants Magic Missile & Force Missile immunity) or maybe Illusion (Invisibility). I'm not as keen about Invis since you can pot it, but it can be useful in a group to cast on your friends too. At 1 SP per cast you probably won't even care about that 30%-50% failure rate from wearing Heavy Armor but you can swap your armor on and off if you are particularly thrifty or a masochist.

You also could try going for another race like Half-Orc (better THF and PA bonuses, DM of Finding) or Elf (DM for Displacement; you'll want Extend too and while you could wait until level 24 to take it I think personally I'd be happier taking a class with a bonus feat in heroics to fit it in much earlier), but if you are not Human then you have to sacrifice on the skill front too. Elf also requires 12 AP in the racial tree to get to Displacement, and Half-Orc may want even more AP spent than that because most of the nicer DPS increases are only available at the 10+ tier (19 or 21 AP looks best). I don't think that the other races bring anything that particularly stands out for this sort of build but there are always possibilities.

So do any of those narrow down to seem particularly interesting to you? E.g.

• Best endgame DPS but absolutely minimal necessary Rogue skills (18/2)
• Filled out Rogue skills (15/5)
• Easiest Heroic feat progression (15/4/Ftr1)
• Displacement Elf tweener (15/4/Ftr1 or Wiz1)
• (H)Orc SMASH! ... and then daintily picks the lock on the chest
• <<Insert your own variation here>>

[Nodoze]

... I am not sure that Stunning Blow will work well in Elites without any serious tactics DC improvements so I hesitate to suggest it, but you can consider it. Can anyone else give some feedback on that? ...

Lots of great info. If you are strength based with Divine Might you have a chance at getting meaningful Tactics... For Tactics I would study the 15Paladin/3Rogue/2Fighter split as a BladeForged and at least twist tactics from Legendary Dreadnaught to see how high you can get. I don't have time right now to re-read the thread for details but from memory I believe there is good info on achievable Tactics in the Cetus Surpreme BladeForged thread... If you both are interested in going for that I can try to do some research later.

[Burtle]

Can anyone give me an "idea" on a maximum dps/decent saves/decent healing build?

I'm looking to TR my dwarven kensai fighter, again.. I just don't know where to start... since pure fighter seems to fall short of anything anymore except for a basic meat shield..