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[01bethdefranco]

Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya

[Caprice]

You also lose two lvl 6 spell slots, so you have to pick two from Reconstruct, Deadly Weapons, Blade Barrier, and Tactical Detonation.

CA is +1[W] which with, say, Needle is worth an extra +6.5 dmg on avg. It's not a must-have, IMHO, but every little bit helps, and since SDK get +2 DEX, might as well aim for the top.

I'm still not a fan of pulling out the CitW weapons for build justification. Yes, they are great weapons but CitW isn't run that much, the drop rate on the CitW weapons is not that good, and not everyone has a few Raider's Boxes tucked away. I think a better example would be to point to the base weapons to try to justify the point, especially in this case since those numbers really aren't much lower than Needle and yet those weapons are multiple orders of magnitude more achievable to get. A random drop (or even TF) heavy repeater gets an average of +5.5 damage per shot from CA, and light repeaters get +4.5 avg per shot from CA. That's still a strong repeater DPS improvement and yet I didn't have to point to one of the least available weapons in the game for justification. :-P

My initial take would be an 8/18/14/18/8/6 attribute spread and a +3 DEX tome to qualify for CA, with all level-ups going into INT. However unless the requester is going to invest in a tome then you have to start sacrificing INT to qualify for CA. The "cheap" way to do so is to put level-ups into DEX instead (which is what I did on my own Arty because I was feeling miserly at the time), but then your INT is reduced by that much. It is a significant net plus on repeater DPS to go for CA even if you do sacrifice INT because you are only losing +1 damage and gaining +4.5 to +6.5 average damage, but you also lose DCs on your runearm and spells which reduces their damage (although by a hard to quantify amount) and makes your CC a bit less reliable as well (equally hard to quantify), as well as losing skill points and effective trapping skill levels, so IMO that all of those have to be considered. My "ideal" situation is using that +3 DEX tome and not giving up any INT but it isn't a given.

I guess I forgot how miserly the Artificer spell slots are. On a fleshie it's pretty easy to drop Reconstruct at least, unless you are running with WF/BF and responsible for keeping them alive or are picking up Construct Essence to self-repair at a less effective rate. I prefer to use wands & scrolls on my own fleshie Artificer, which isn't that hard to pull off even during combat given the ranged & caster focus, but there are times when that does fail me.

But I still think Evasion is strong and worth considering building for, especially when it saves you buying a LR+1. If nothing else a +3 DEX tome costs less to buy from the store than a LR+1 heart does. Of course you can always plan to run in the Shadowdancer ED in epics instead when you need Evasion, but to the best of my knowledge FotW is still considered a far better DPS choice, and you won't have the benefit of Evasion in heroics (or in fact until the middle/late epics, if this is a first life).

[Nodoze]

I'm still not a fan of pulling out the CitW weapons for build justification. Yes, they are great weapons but CitW isn't run that much, the drop rate on the CitW weapons is not that good, and not everyone has a few Raider's Boxes tucked away. I think a better example would be to point to the base weapons to try to justify the point, especially in this case since those numbers really aren't much lower than Needle and yet those weapons are multiple orders of magnitude more achievable to get. A random drop (or even TF) heavy repeater gets an average of +5.5 damage per shot from CA, and light repeaters get +4.5 avg per shot from CA. That's still a strong repeater DPS improvement and yet I didn't have to point to one of the least available weapons in the game for justification. :-P

My initial take would be an 8/18/14/18/8/6 attribute spread and a +3 DEX tome to qualify for CA, with all level-ups going into INT. However unless the requester is going to invest in a tome then you have to start sacrificing INT to qualify for CA. The "cheap" way to do so is to put level-ups into DEX instead (which is what I did on my own Arty because I was feeling miserly at the time), but then your INT is reduced by that much. It is a significant net plus on repeater DPS to go for CA even if you do sacrifice INT because you are only losing +1 damage and gaining +4.5 to +6.5 average damage, but you also lose DCs on your runearm and spells which reduces their damage (although by a hard to quantify amount) and makes your CC a bit less reliable as well (equally hard to quantify), as well as losing skill points and effective trapping skill levels, so IMO that all of those have to be considered. My "ideal" situation is using that +3 DEX tome and not giving up any INT but it isn't a given.

I guess I forgot how miserly the Artificer spell slots are. On a fleshie it's pretty easy to drop Reconstruct at least, unless you are running with WF/BF and responsible for keeping them alive or are picking up Construct Essence to self-repair at a less effective rate. I prefer to use wands & scrolls on my own fleshie Artificer, which isn't that hard to pull off even during combat given the ranged & caster focus, but there are times when that does fail me.

But I still think Evasion is strong and worth considering building for, especially when it saves you buying a LR+1. If nothing else a +3 DEX tome costs less to buy from the store than a LR+1 heart does. Of course you can always plan to run in the Shadowdancer ED in epics instead when you need Evasion, but to the best of my knowledge FotW is still considered a far better DPS choice, and you won't have the benefit of Evasion in heroics (or in fact until the middle/late epics, if this is a first life).

All good points and splashing 2 Rogue does have its merits and Evasion is always nice to have.

I agree FotW is better overall DPS but it is more spikey and can get you into trouble on EE and personally I feel ShadowDancer's steady DPS is under-rated/estimated by folk (yes it is behind but not as much as people make it out to be)... Yeah you won't see the big crits of FoTW and have lower burst damage (as long as you have Fusillades left and your "Epic Moment" is off it's 5 minute cool-down) but I felt the balance of ShadowDancer on a pure Artificer was better (+steady-low-aggro-sneaky-DPS +skills + Saves +Evasion +Int for DPS/DCs/SPs/Reflex-Saves)...

In my case I did it as my first life on my first character on a new server (no starting coin nor gear) and found the WF 007 a very friendly all-around build and great for both solo and group play as I had great self healing and trapping/buffing for all content levels and great AoE & CC for soloing EH and below... In guild EE runs people know the zerg tatics better than me so even though they rushed ahead I could still contribute with buffs and DPS from the back and when things went south I could dance in circles popping AoEs and BBs to keep aggro while reconstructing myself and scrolling rezes/Heals for everyone...

It should be noted though that I was fine leveling though Heroics & Epics on a Hard streak and didn't focus on Epic Elites until I had maxed out my Shadow Dancer and had gotten a few easy low level twists (it has been awhile but think Unearthly Reactions & Bolder Toss were two of them before the nerf of Boulder Toss for Arties/casters...).

I can say from experience that the CC on a max Int Pure Artificer is great for at least EH and below (even on a 32 pointer 1st lifer) and full self-Reconstructs without Evasion are fine on EH and below. ShadowDancer also gave me more Intelligence which helped with both steady-state DPS and DCs & Reflex saves (Int really helps in many areas as Caprice pointed out)... Without testing I would be a little concerned that my DCs would no longer function even in EH if I dropped base Int, dropped a few Artificer levels, and was in a Destiny with no Int improvements... In EE I would also be wary that my Reflex Save (even with Insightful Reflexes) was no longer viable were I to drop in all those areas...

Personally the only time I felt Evasion was really warranted was when I went for EEs so it came in plenty of time for me so a large part of it comes down to what the requester's goals are and the timing of when they are planned to be accomplished...

Great discussions and all good info for folk to think about...

[Caprice]

[....]Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-Artificer

There is a good discussion in the Initial Post on "Alternative [Racial] Build Options" and though there is no specific section on Shadar-Kai I suspect they could fit into the discussion section for the other +2 Dex races...

Dubbell O'Seven and the discussions there are a great resource. Another good Artificer build to consider is Singular's High DPS Human Artie. Notice that in both builds they put almost all of their AP into the 2 Artificer Enhancement trees and skimp out on the racial tree. In addition to what Nodoze mentioned you could get some benefit out of the Sneak Attack dice combined with the Blind proc from "Gloom Stalker", but you would have to make some sacrifices on the class abilities if you want to invest more heavily into Shadar-Kai. I'm not keen* on that tradeoff myself.

The epic elite optimization thread is another valuable resource, but it may be a bit of a slog to get through before you start playing your Artificer and see how the abilities play off each other.

* Secret but intentional pun.

[Nodoze]

Dubbell O'Seven and the discussions there are a great resource. Another good Artificer build to consider is Singular's High DPS Human Artie. Notice that in both builds they put almost all of their AP into the 2 Artificer Enhancement trees and skimp out on the racial tree. In addition to what Nodoze mentioned you could get some benefit out of the Sneak Attack dice combined with the Blind proc from "Gloom Stalker", but you would have to make some sacrifices on the class abilities if you want to invest more heavily into Shadar-Kai. I'm not keen* on that tradeoff myself.

The epic elite optimization thread is another valuable resource, but it may be a bit of a slog to get through before you start playing your Artificer and see how the abilities play off each other.

* Secret but intentional pun.

Great recommendations. A big part of the reason the 007 thread & the EE optimization threads are so great is because of contributions/input from folk like Singular and if you aren't going to play the "superior toaster" race for an Artie then that is a great starting point for a "fleshie" build (and a good read regardless) !

I didn't have Singular's thread bookmarked but thanks to you I now do. Edit: It should be noted that I kinda split the difference between the 007 and Singular's build as Singular's discussions swayed me and I also subscribed to the synergy of using Force instead of Elemental damage like Singular does. I can see the Pros/Cons of the various approaches (especially Acid+Energy Burst) but in EE I liked Force the most personally for more consistent/controllable DPS and my EE-sneaky-low-aggro-play-style as a 1st lifer Artie on a new server.

[Caprice]

[Lots of good stuff]

I'd agree that WF/BF is a straight up better choice than Shadar-kai. OTOH I went Human on mine so I could take the DM of Making to jumpstart my Cannith Crafting skill, and if I am being honest also partly because I don't like the WF model that much, so I can't justly disagree with someone else choose a non-ideal race for personal preferences. I regret my race choice at this point, but oh well.

TBH I miss Evasion more in heroics than epics, although I have only run a few EEs and those were all on my healtastic Cleric so my experience there is limited. There are a few HE traps you have to cross or stand in to disarm that tend to 1-shot me on a failed save even with Ablative Armor and/or Stoneskin precast. A better player who can time the traps well might laugh at them (and me), but I struggle with that. There seem to be far fewer of those "Nelson laugh" traps in epics (or possibly none) so it seems like Evasion is less significant for dealing with traps.

I also like how Shadowdancer abilities have INT-based DCs, and you can also get Invisibility, DDoor, Displacement, Shadow Walk, energy drain immunity (for fleshies - WF get it innately already), and Incorporeality. All of those are quite nice additions to the Artificer arsenal. The downside to me has always been that most of the flashier abilities have fairly limited durations followed by long(ish) cooldowns. I've never tried it on a stealthing character but I think if you had good Hide/Move Silently skills and bypassed some fights while letting your abilities recharge, it would be pretty amazing.

[Caprice]

Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya

Yes, Rapid Reload does increase your repeating crossbow DPS and by quite a bit. The feats that will directly increase your repeater DPS are Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Improved Critical: Ranged, and in epic levels Combat Archery, and you will want all of those. Note that the Artificer class gets Rapid Reload for free at class level 1, so if you pick Artificer to switch to then you do not have to pick Rapid Reload up on your own.

There are another 2 feats that don't directly increase your repeater DPS but are quite important too: Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot.

Precise Shot increases your DPS while standing still but I don't consider that a big benefit. You will probably be kiting a lot (or at least I do) so the damage boost doesn't add damage consistently. The big benefit is that it makes your shots pass through enemies to hit the specific enemy you have targeted. Without Precise Shot your bolts do their damage just to the first enemy in the path of your shots. So Precise Shot lets you select and quickly kill the most dangerous enemies (e.g. casters, beholders) first rather than having the beefier but possibly less dangerous melee enemies soak up a lot of your hits first.

Improved Precise Shots makes it so your shots no longer hit just the one enemy you have targeted. Instead you hit every enemy in a straight path between you and your targeted enemy. It doesn't help against a single foe but if there are 2 or 3 enemies in a row then you can do 2-3 times as much damage. One of the important playing skills you'll learn in the longer term is how to take advantage of NPC pathing to line up as many enemies as possible so you can kill them all at once rather than one by one.

[01bethdefranco]

Hi Caprice and Unbongwah

ok so two more questions come to mind. First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows. Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex. Wisdom is my lowest. Currently at level 10 my Charisma is 28 and Dex is 21...Int is 12. Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?

Tanya

[Batilla]

I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:

If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead? that would get you to 21 easily and if we are talking about using a tome for feats anyway, and, not going beyond minimum dex, than it seems to me that going that route would be one of the better options as that would let you start with 16 con instead of 14 which would lead to (theoretically anyways) greater survivability as you would then have more hp to play around with.

The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:

As far as the +1 heart of wood needed for the pure build; part of the reason I said pure was that I already have the heart and nothing else to use it on really so no TP expenditure there so it really shouldn't be counted as part of the cost of the build(found the thing BTA on a char for favor farming that i was clearing out in order to delete and I have no clue how it got there)

Construct Essence:

and regarding construct essence for fleshies, that feat also (AFAIK) increases damage on account of it being the feat required to unlock the Weapon Attachment perk in the battle engineer tree (if you are not a Warforged) which provides half as much damage as combat archery does and AFAIK the two stack. so would that make it worth considering adding on?

Race Choice:

as far as the reason i picked the shadar-kai race is that it gives a +1 int enhancement as well as 2 sneak attack dice and a +2 dex as well as the shadow phase and shadow jaunt cooldowns which are basically a "Get The Heck Out Of Dodge" button that lets you get away fast even when trapped by enemies, they also do not have a set nomber of uses per rest (just a 30 sec cooldown in between uses once you finish off the shadar-kai core enhancements) which helps somewhat with mobility in that not having to worry about usess running out lets you use them more freely, in addition the keen senses enhancement doesn't hurt when trying to do trapping as it helps with spot and search giving 3 points to each

[Batilla]

Hi Caprice and Unbongwah

ok so two more questions come to mind. First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows. Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex. Wisdom is my lowest. Currently at level 10 my Charisma is 28 and Dex is 21...Int is 12. Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?

Tanya

+4 tomes start at 15th level, yes artificer uses int for spellcasting as well as weapon modifiers if you use certain spells, and as far as crossbows the only feats that i know of that only affects bows is multishot and bow strength

[unbongwah]

First...so all of these ranged feats help bows and crossbows...I thought there was limitations on crossbows.

The following feats apply to all ranged & throwing weapons: Precision, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, Combat Archery. These feats apply to short-/longbows only: Bow Strength, Manyshot, Zen Archery. Two feats are throwing-only: Brutal Throw and Quick Draw (altho QD also reduces delay on weapon swaps & action boosts). There are also two shuriken-specific feats: Shuriken Expertise and 10,000 Stars (tho it also works w/bows if you have Zen Archery). Rapid Reload is xbow-only (inc. repeaters).

Second...ok Artificer splash sounds like it would help but doesn't Artificer use Int. my Int is low, while I maxed Charisma, then Dex.

Correct, but when you LR you redo all your stats & skills as well as your feats, so you'll be able to fix that too. But this is why you plan your build (or rebuild) in advance: to make sure you factor in everything.

I should stress: the only stat which can be added to crossbow dmg is INT; and the only ways of adding it are via Targeting Sights (Mechanic lvl 6) or Insightful Damage (lvl 3 arty spell, need at least arty lvl 6). You can choose to skip both, but you'll be hampering your ranged DPS significantly without either.

Also I have +3 tomes available when I get to 19 I will have +5 available...not sure what level +4 starts at maybe 15 or 16?

+1 stat tomes can be taken at lvl 3; the min lvl on other tomes goes up every 4 lvls for each +1 (i.e., +2s @ lvl 7, +3s @ lvl 11, etc.).

[unbongwah]

If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead?

That would work BUT remember IPS req's base DEX 19 and you can't take +5 tomes until lvl 19; does that mess up your feat progression if you have to wait until lvl 20 to take IPS?

[Batilla]

That would work BUT remember IPS req's base DEX 19 and you can't take +5 tomes until lvl 19; does that mess up your feat progression if you have to wait until lvl 20 to take IPS?

As far as i can tell it only changes the order in which i get them, not which feats i get. Unless that would cause a problem with leveling i don't see much of an issue with changing just the level at which i get the feat.

[Nodoze]

reply comments in red (just for visibility not because I am being critical/correcting)

I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:

If tomes can be used to qualify for feats and you only need 21 dex as an artificer why not just start with 16 dex and grab a +5 tome instead? that would get you to 21 easily and if we are talking about using a tome for feats anyway, and, not going beyond minimum dex, than it seems to me that going that route would be one of the better options as that would let you start with 16 con instead of 14 which would lead to (theoretically anyways) greater survivability as you would then have more hp to play around with.
More/Better Tomes always help but not everyone is able/willing to get the Tomes. In addition to more base HP, 16 starting Con with a +5 con Tome also qualifies you for Epic Toughness if you have the feats to spare. Back when I did it and Combat Archery was broken and I didn't have completionist (I was on my 1st life) I did that to boost survivabilty.

The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:

As far as the +1 heart of wood needed for the pure build; part of the reason I said pure was that I already have the heart and nothing else to use it on really so no TP expenditure there so it really shouldn't be counted as part of the cost of the build(found the thing BTA on a char for favor farming that i was clearing out in order to delete and I have no clue how it got there)
Sounds good.

Construct Essence:

and regarding construct essence for fleshies, that feat also (AFAIK) increases damage on account of it being the feat required to unlock the Weapon Attachment perk in the battle engineer tree (if you are not a Warforged) which provides half as much damage as combat archery does and AFAIK the two stack. so would that make it worth considering adding on?
Never tried Construct Essense so it is hard for me to comment on it directly. That being said I looked at it and decided against it and went WarForged for 100% healing and native Weapon Attachment instead. I have a guildie who took it on his HE Artie and even with his self repairs and me trying to assist with Reconstructs he died a lot more than me (and eventually quit DDO). I looked at Singular's build and she doesn't use it on her max DPS human version so I would hold it suspect as suboptimal.

Race Choice:

as far as the reason i picked the shadar-kai race is that it gives a +1 int enhancement as well as 2 sneak attack dice and a +2 dex as well as the shadow phase and shadow jaunt cooldowns which are basically a "Get The Heck Out Of Dodge" button that lets you get away fast even when trapped by enemies, they also do not have a set nomber of uses per rest (just a 30 sec cooldown in between uses once you finish off the shadar-kai core enhancements) which helps somewhat with mobility in that not having to worry about usess running out lets you use them more freely, in addition the keen senses enhancement doesn't hurt when trying to do trapping as it helps with spot and search giving 3 points to each
As long as you are making a well informed decision I think just about any choices are fine. For example I played Charisma-to-damage-melee-PDK to cap and enjoyed it even if I wasn't the most min-maxed in my group and people had advised against it...

Your posts gave me the first reason to take a close look at Shadar-Kai in a long time and it may not be a bad choice as a fleshie. It is a natural +2 Dex race that can take a racial +1 Int and I can value in those Shadow abilities (I like survivability and have twisted 'Unearthly Reactions' which is quite similar in effect) and things like the extra SA+skills are interesting. The one thing you may find as I and others have on Arties is that Action Points are a scarce resource and we had a hard time justifying AP in expensive racial trees by taking away from other trees...

My respectful recommendation to you is to download the DDO CharGen and use the build Singular posted as a starting point and compare her decisions/recommendation against CThru's 007 decisions/recommendations and then make the changes you are thinking about... It will help you see the finer differences in their final choices after multiple lives as Artificers and help you make a more informed choice. It will also give you a pictoral lesson as you rob Peter to pay Paul in the Racial tree of your choice.

[Nodoze]

As far as i can tell it only changes the order in which i get them, not which feats i get. Unless that would cause a problem with leveling i don't see much of an issue with changing just the level at which i get the feat.

As you can see from different perspectives from multiple experienced players, different people/playstyles find different content & different level ranges more challenging than others. A lot depends on how you end up playing (alone, in PUGs, in good Guild groups) what your strengths/weaknesses are, and what content you play (adventure packs and difficulty levels)... Some people struggle in the later Heroics and dread the 16-20 climb and I personally don't like it as I prefer the Epic content and having access to Epic Destinies... I just did my 3rd life as a WarCannon and following the build I had to slog and wait till 21 till I got IPS and didn't enjoy that part and in hindsight I may change that if I do another life on that build. Yeah from 21-28 I don't have to worry about it anymore and it no longer makes a difference but it certainly did make a difference getting to 21...

[Caprice]

Hi Unbongwah and Caprice

ok so I added the LR+3 but I am still unsure which class to replace Barbarian with. Whatever will maximize the character. Also...does rapid reload work with heavy repeaters. Also the feat that helps accuracy does it apply to crossbows as well.


Tanya

I have a hard time making a class suggestion because I'm just not seeing the class synergy well and because we don't know when you took the Barbarian levels.

I would look ahead to what abilities will unlock in the classes as you level. If you really want to heal ("repair") Warforged effectively at higher levels you will want "Reconstruct", which is a level 6 Sorceror spell, or at least "Repair Critical Damage" (level 4). Sorcerors get their first level 6 spell slot at Sorceror level 12. Bards can only get the equivalent healing spell for "fleshie" non-Warforged ("Heal") as a capstone ability for being a pure level 20 Bard. Instead the biggest single-target healing spell a Bard gets is the level 4 spell "Cure Critical Wounds" (CCW). Bards get their first level 4 spell slot at Bard level 10. Unfortunately you cannot get both Reconstruct and CCW because the levels add up to too much.

The number and length of the buff spells you get for each class increase with levels too, so in most cases splitting the levels means you have to cast your buffs twice as often and have less variety. Generally you will have an easier time if you focus on one or the other so that you get to access the higher level buffs and so that the buffs you cast naturally last longer.

Another consideration is your skills. If you really want to be able to do traps then you are starting behind because you cannot have Rogue or Artificer as your level 1 class, so you are going to be doing a lot of catch up. Unfortunately Sorceror only gets 2 skill points per level, and the trap skills costs double for Sorceror, so it is hard to get even just the trapskills. Bards also pay double for trap skills but get 6 skills points per level so they are not as badly off. In addition both Bards and Sorcerors have other skills that they want to have to maximize their abilities (e.g. Concentration for both, Spellcraft for Sorcerors, Perform and UMD for Bards), so something has to give.

So overall I do not think that you can fit in everything that you want in this character. Since you are changing 2 Barbarian levels you can only change 1 other class level, so you need to have at least Sorceror3/Bard4 or Sorceror2/Bard5 as a base. A couple of options I can see are:

- Focus on Bard from now on and go Bard18/Sorc2 (or Bard16/Sorc4). You will get great buffing, healing, and CC abilities, and can focus on the repeater for your personal DPS. At higher levels your Use Magic Device skill will let you use Reconstruct scrolls to repair Warforged without having a single Repair spell in your spell book so you aren't really losing much there in the long term, and until then your remaining Sorceror levels mean that you can use Repair Wands pretty easily to help out any WF/BF you are traveling with (just buy a few from the wand vendors). You don't get INT to damage with the repeaters, which does reduce your DPS somewhat in the long run. You can invest some AP into the Air Savant tree and some into Spell Singer and maybe get Sonic SLAs and decent Sonic spellpower to back them up. You can't afford all the ranged feats and meta magics too but you'll still get some value out of them (e.g. Reverberate vs bosses). The extra Sonic spellpower will also help with Shiradi Champion abilities if you choose that as your Epic Destiny. You might as well drop a Sorceror level for now with your third class level change from your LR+3; you might add it back later but in the short term you will probably get more from more Bard levels right now. You will have enough Bard levels for your Songs to be plentiful, last a while, and to qualify for the quite nice Epic song feat (which is basically a free Completionist feat for the party).
\- Variant: Bard15/Rogue3/Sorceror2. You are not going to be able to get the full array of trap skills but you might be able to get at least Search & Disable Device to a decent level, and of course you get Evasion. You will still qualify for the epic song feat. For trapping your best bet may be to rely on outside help to find the traps in the first place (e.g. see: Barbarian; see also: Barbarians's face, Barbarian's Soulstone) and then you will hopefully be able to find and clear the trap afterwards.

- Bard12/Rogue6/Sorceror2. Rogue gives you INT to repeater damage through Mechanic Core 3 "Targeting Sites", Evasion, some Sneak Attack dice, and a decent number of skill points. You only get light repeater proficiency for "free" so you still need to pick up the Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Repeating Crossbow feat. Bard 12 gives most of the class benefits although your songs will be shorter, you stop at level 4 spells, and you do not qualify for the epic song feat. I think you may be able to max out 3 of the 4 trap skills (i.e. Search, Disable Device, and one of Spot or Open Lock), but you are going to be stretched a bit thin on skill points so maybe not.

- Sorceror 10/Rogue6/Bard4. Your buffing suffers but in return you get some useful AoE abilities that will help you kite and kill groups of enemies on your own. Rogue 6 is as above. Bard still has some okay low tier enhancements like Ranged Blow By Blow & Violet Marigold Crown, and unlocks Cure Wands. TBH I'd rather drop this to Bard 1-2 (or drop Bard entirely) but the LR+3 won't do any more. Sorceror 10 gives you an okay selection of spells including some of the better buffs. You won't be able to take Reconstruct but you can get Repair Critical Damage and that's not bad, and Sorceror will give you some AoEs that will be helpful for you in ranged kiting. In particular look at some of Nodoze's posts on being a Wizard shuriken user and using Cloudkill - you will have that spell as an option and can take on a playstyle that's a lot like that. Sorceror is low on skill points so you will probably have to cut corners to fit in even basic trapskills. Note that if you specialize in Earth spells (via the Earth Savant enhancements) it will make your Air & Sonic spells less effective so don't also take any Sonic SLAs from Spell Singer if you go that route.
\- A variant would be Artificer 6 rather than Rogue 6. You get both repeater proficiencies for free, runearm use, INT to repeater damage via the "Insightful Damage" spell, Rapid Reload as a free feat, another free Artificer feat (which incl. almost all the good ranged and casting feats), infinite bolts via the "Conjure Bolts" spell, and access to the Endless Fusillade enhancement. So you get good burst damage, and can actually fit in the feats semi-comfortably. However Artificer only gets 4 base skill points per level compared to Rogue's 8 base per level, so you are going to have a harder time with getting usable trap skills. Note that the runearm will not do much damage from charging and releasing (using the ALT key) with only 6 Artificer levels. It won't be enough to offset the run speed reduction you get for carrying a charged runearm. You are just using it for the imbues (averaging +3.5 dmg at low levels but up to +20 at epics), which you still get when the runearm isn't charged, and whatever extra bonuses the arm gives (e.g. spellpower, fortification).

Do any of those ideas appeal to you? If so I can try to do an actual layout of levels and see how the feats & skill points work out. I can start from a "least favorable" scenario (e.g. something like Sorceror 1, Bard 2-6, Sorceror 7-8, Barbarian 9-10) so that you should end up in no worse condition in the end. I have my fingers crossed that you took the Barbarian levels very early for the martial weapon proficiency and the class run speed bonus. The downside to ranged feats is how many you need, but at least they have relatively few requirements so at least your picks aren't going to be very sensitive to BAB requirements and things like that.

Note that while your INT score may not be contributing much extra damage at first, as you go up in levels you will get more points from gear (and possibly enhancements and epic destinies) so it will start to add more. You might have just a 14 INT base, but then you add a +8 INT item and a +2 exceptional INT item and rather than +2 damage per bolt you are doing +7 damage per hit, which is pretty good. And that's not the limit for items at the level cap, just a relatively easy number to hit.

[Caprice]

One other thought I was trying to squeeze in is that since you are a Halfling you can get some abilities for healing non-WF through the Dragonmark of Healing, which is the Halfling racial Dragonmark. You get a limited number of charges of the dragonmarks so you can't use them as freely as healing or repair spells, but the top tier is Heal and you can also get one of the better debuff removals ("Break Out the Leeches"). However you are already looking "feat starved" because ranged weapons require a lot of feats and none of Halfling, Bard, or Sorceror give any bonus feats, so I don't see a good way to fit in the Dragonmark without sacrificing some other really useful feat.

[01bethdefranco]

Hi Caprice
wow very detailed suggestions...and all good. What I need to do I think is clarify what I want. I envision more of a secondary healer, the 5th or 6th option on traps, and the ability to buff and support. I obviously have no illusions of being a tank or even a secondary damage person. However crowd control, walls, curses are what I would like to add to a party. I even have a curse spewing heavy repeater. The sorcerer spells i have taken so far are mostly sonic and force with a few electrical. I am not really looking to lower Charisma, so i would raise Intelligence by lowering Strength and Dexterity as little as possible depending on how high I need to get Intelligence up. I would get tomes as needed. Truthfully, a splash of rogue was for evasion , just like a splash of Barbarian was for toughness. I hadn't really figured that third class in. I do not mind using wands and scrolls as needed. So right now I am not sure how I am going to raise Intelligence to increase my repeater crossbow damage and not hurt other things. Before this I was planning 12 Bard, 6 Sorcerer and 2 of the 3rd class. Maybe i do not need a third class. What is the pros and cons of that. I was thinking Bard and Sorcerer would have Charisma synergie, then I could concentrate on the repeating heavy crossbow to messh with any group i am in. I have never envisioned this character as solo.

Tanya

[Caprice]

I'll split it up into sections

Tomes:
[....]
The Heart of Wood Needed for the build:
[....]
Construct Essence:
[....]
Race Choice:
[....]

Mostly I am going to second other opinions that are already here:

- You can definitely use a +5 tome and wait until you get your level 20 Artificer bonus feat or an epic feat slot to pick up IPS. The only downsides are waiting a bit longer to get the feat so you delay the fun/practice, and the cost of the tome. I try not to assume that anyone is going to spring for that big a tome. FWIW I try not to assume anything more than +1s even at level 20, and that's despite +3s being handed out like candy during the anniversary event this year. Since you are willing, by all means go for it! On my napkin layout the feats work out fine for a pure Artie to take IPS at 20, but the Rogue 2 splashed version loses a feat and has to push IPS into epic levels and then has to drop something (e.g. Epic Spellpower) so that's another argument in favor of the pure version.

- Congrats on the Heart! If it's BtA maybe it was a daily roll reward. I think the lootable drops we used to see were all unbound, although Turbine did remove the Greater Hearts from the game a few Updates ago and maybe they made those BtA when they changed them into Lessers. In any case that's a nice find.

- I have seen at least some positive reviews on Construct Essence. Even at 50% effectiveness Reconstruct can be a life saver, apparently. I've found that my Human Artie does pretty well self-healing with Cure wands and prepping for harder fights with Ablative/Stoneskin so I decided to skip it myself, especially since Cocoon should make me even more survivable when I get there, but Construct Essence is an easier/earlier way to achieve the same thing.

- Weapon Attachment adds +2.75 average dmg per shot on a lootgen heavy repeater (or +2.25 on a light) and that is fantastic for a 1 AP enhancement, but it also has a very slow activation animation and is on a 3 minute CD timer. Those make it hard if you swap to use scrolls/wands frequently. If you are taking Construct Essence for self-healing then I would say that taking Weapon Attachment should be a no brainer (1 AP!) even if you just use it situationally. It does not match my current play style because depending on the content I tend to keep several weapons prepped for specific foe types and swap between them, and I definitely need to do wand/scroll healing (and sometimes buffing), but I think it is generally a strong choice that just gets stronger once you have an endgame weapon.

- Singular twists in Cocoon for (self-)healing, but also calls out WF as being slightly better than Human in most respects and specifically mentions the +0.5[W] as one reason why (and not needing to twist Cocoon as another). It might be worth asking whether (s)he thinks that dropping Mental Toughness for Construct Essence and freeing up 1 AP for Weapon Attachment would be worth it. I took the DM of Making instead, but someday when my crafting skills are better I could see swapping in Construct Essence. I'd rate that higher than Mental Toughness.

- Those are reasonable things to like from SDK. I just can't find the AP to spare that I don't want to spend on other enhancements. If you can then I think you can make good use of the abilities.

- FWIW while a lot of people denigrate the SLAs, I actually find that I get a lot of mileage out of them. In particular I find that they are good "Panic Button!" abilities because of the Daze effects on Static Shock and Lightning Sphere. Lightning Sphere is apparently bugged and the save does not protect against the Daze effect, and while it is a little hard to target it is pretty good at short ranges and is an AoE. Static Shock hits more reliably but the Daze is not a given and it is single target, but it works often enough that I consider it to be a standard part of my repertoire for dealing with enemies that close on me. OTOH I am not doing EEs nor do I plan on them so I don't have ridiculous saves to overcome on those. The SDK abilities are going to be more reliable in EE content because they don't debuff enemies so you won't run afoul of the saves or debuff immunities.

[ArtharianDagworth]

Hi everyone,

I used to play DDO 3~ years ago. Lack of time due to college at the time stopped me from going far in to the game, but I really enjoyed it.

Now, I'm thinking of returning and discovered that my old character is still there. Only with all enhancements reseted. I lost the build I was basing him on, also probally since a lot has changed, the build the way it was wasn't going as good.

I remember that it was supposed to be a 1 lvl barbarian, 1 lvl fighter and all the other levels on ranger dwarf. Making use of rage and dual wield dwarven axes. The character is currently at level 14. I've passed all his current stats on the character generator. So, I'd like to know if the character can be saved in to something usefull? It's a f2p 28 points/0 tomes build..

[code]Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 14 Chaotic Good Dwarf Male
(1 Fighter \ 1 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 197
Spell Points: 140 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 9
Will: 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength             18                    21
Dexterity            13                    13
Constitution         15                    15
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              6                     6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               2                    13
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         2                    11
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     3
Heal                  1                    13
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  6                    21
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                0                     5
Spellcraft            0                     0
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     5
Tumble                3                     9
Use Magic Device     n/a                    0

Level 1 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Diehard


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)