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[Nodoze]

Good call on builds that satisfy the requirement, and I have appreciated your personal feedback on the comparative strengths of the options in those threads and here. I have one minor quibble/question RE:

To the best of my knowledge, the level 1 spell "Obscuring Mist" also provides a 20% Concealment effect that works on bosses too. It has a shorter duration than Cloudkill and does no damage, but it ought to allow the Meteor Shower builds the same Concealment benefit versus bosses. This is one reason quoted in support of taking a caster splash on some builds, and IIRC is also a reason why people sometime recommend keeping any Obscuring Mist clickies you find.

Thanks and good points (+1 for you). The main advantage of Cloudkill over Obscuring Mist is, besides lasting twice as long during a long boss fight, is that the damage component of CloudKill (and IceStorm) both can proc Shiradi effects from both the Epic Destiny Shiradi Champion's Double Rainbow stance & the Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen stance (which both seem to stack and that stacking is dev quoted as WAI).

We just duo'ed Devil's Assault (both switching to Shiradi, both wearing a Deception & Improved Deception items, both with Celestia's in the off hands, etc) and the chaos was utterly crazy/amazing... We had foxes and frogs join our sides and were picking up 100's of deviled hams between rounds while trying to catch our breaths from laughing. I really noticed my Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen when not in Shiradi so, even though 2 characters in our trio really need Martial past lives (for future builds), we are switching to focus on getting each of us Primal Karma this life so when we do our next eR we will all have at least 1 Colors of the Queen ePL (I will have 2 at that point)... Our thought process was that, over the long run, it will help us get future ePLs faster than any other interim ePLs... We will likely switch my one daughter back to Shadow Dancer after that but having everyone contribute to random procs should add even more CC and fun stuff.

EDIT: Also tonight my daughter and I both had several procs of something that likely saved our lives more than once that I had forgotten in my benefits/mitigation list above... I added the following to my previous post:

• Edit: Arcane Barrier: Both have have the passive protection when HP drop below 50% they are immediately protected by an Arcane Barrier that reduces all incoming damage by 25% for the next 10/15/20 seconds. This effect may only trigger once every 150/120/90 seconds.

I can not quantify how beneficial this is as it auto-procs when you really need it and can proc again 70 seconds after it fades... Besides further reducing incoming damage by another 25% over all the stuff when things really go south is it is a great heads up for those of us who may lose sight of our red bar when things get very heated... Now like pavlov's dog I immediately hit Reconstruct anytime I see that sphere pop and that alone is priceless! Right next to Quickened-Reconstruct I have hot bar'ed Quickened-Maximized-Repair-Critical so even with the extended cool downs of Tensors I can 'full heal' instantly via hot bar at least twice back to back... (I also carry at least 100 Reconstruct scrolls & get +75% with them)...

[Caprice]

Thanks and good points (+1 for you). The main advantage of Cloudkill over Obscuring Mist is, besides lasting twice as long during a long boss fight, is that the damage component of CloudKill (and IceStorm) both can proc Shiradi effects from both the Epic Destiny Shiradi Champion's Double Rainbow stance & the Epic Past Life Colors of the Queen stance (which both seem to stack and that stacking is dev quoted as WAI).

I had not thought about Cloudkill triggering Shiradi effects - very nice. I totally agree that Cloudkill is providing a lot more value, but I wanted to point out Obscuring Mist because it is often overlooked as a useful boss debuff. I know that I have to be reminded about it periodically, but it provides a lot of value at all levels for a level 1 spell slot and the Meteor Shower build playing solo ought to be able to use it to good effect.

However I need to correct myself : in fact I was misremembering the clickie suggestion. It is not Obscuring Mist that people kept mentioning to me in the past as worth collecting, it was Solid Fog. There is an additional debuff included in Solid Fog and it can be used to grab aggro, but it should not proc Shiradi effects so Cloudkill is going to be strictly better in your circumstances.

I'm glad to hear that you're having so much fun with the Colors EPL. I just ETR'd into it for the first time but have not had a chance to take it for a spin yet. Soon!

[unbongwah]

I definitely want her to have repeating heavy crossbow. Currently she is level 10: 5 Bard/3 Sorcerer/2 Barbarian. I think I only took Barbarian for toughness. So replacing Barbarian is fine. I do not remember what way i added levels but I have heard that if you multiclass with Rogue, even a splash, then that should be the first class you start with to get extra skills. Basically she is a Bard that heals and buffs with as much range damage as possible from the repeaters. Sorcerer levels give mana ability to heal Warforged. I have access to +3 tomes for all ability scores. Hope this helps....let me know if you need more and how I should start over. I do want to maximize her potential....bet or no. I have never played with Artificer so have no knowledge of the workings or style of that class. Besides the +3 tomes she is a 32 point build.

Normally you do want to start w/rogue @ first level, but in this case it's not possible. Because of the way the LR process works, you can never have more than three classes in your build at any given time; so you would have to get rid of one of them before you could switch to rog.

Artificer is a pretty nice class: a mix of spells, trap skills, and ranged DPS using crossbows+runearms. But it's also a P2P class for everyone.

To be honest, I'm stumped as to how to "save" your char. If you wanted a Swashbuckler, I'd suggest you LR into a pure bard like the Count of MC; or a caster bard like the one I posted above; or even a Bardcher if you were willing to switch to bows. But I don't see an easy way of mixing rog (or arty) into your build; and without either your ranged DPS will suffer quite a bit. I'll have to think about it a bit more & see what if anything I can come up with.

[Rash]

Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash

[01bethdefranco]

Hi Unbongwah

well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels. Currently I am progressing toward my 11th level which was going to be a 4th level in Sorcerer. If you want to spend time I will definitely be a good pupil.

Tanya

[Varinon]

Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash

Welcome to the game. A few things to note that's different about DDO and NWN/DnD tanking, is that AC is much, much, much less important. In DDO we have a stat called Physical Resistance Rating (PRR) that will reduce the damage you take by a percentage (somewhat like immunity in NWN), dodge and concealment and incorporeality also are very important for tanks, where in NWN/DnD dodge doesn't exist, and incorporeality is only for monsters like Shadows. That being said, it's a good time to start a paladin tank. Next update is basically focused on upgrading paladins and heavy-armor tanks in general. I'll edit in a build here once I make one, but knowing the differences is more important than the build itself (in my opinion).

I wish someone had told me this when I started.. My first character was a rogue with a shield. Agh.

Edit: This isn't pretty because the builder (and the game) haven't been updated to have all this stuff in it, but it's in the plans for the next update at the moment.

 Rash, Paladin Tank
Race: Elf
Class: Paladin 20
Skills: Heal, Concentration, Intimidate
Str: 16
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

Feats:
1) Power Attack 
3) Two-Handed Fighting
6) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
9) Improved Two-Handed Fighting
12) Improved Critical: Slashing
15) Extend Spell
18) Greater Two-Handed Fighting
21) Overwhelming Critical
24) Empower Healing Spell
26) Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (You may not be able to take this right away--respec a feat later)
27) Blinding Speed
28) Elusive Target (You may not be able to take this right away--respec a feat later)

Enhancements: 80

Elf: 19
-Elven Accuracy I
-Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III
-Valenar Weapon Training IV
-Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
-Greater Dragonmark of Shadow
-Fey Sight
-Skill

Knight of the Chalice: 19
-Slayer of Evil I
-Extra Smite II
-Extra Turning II
-Courage of Heaven
-Divine Might III
-Exalted Cleave I
-Vigor of Life
-Strength I
-Divine Sacrifice I

Sacred Defender: 42
-Holy Bastion
-Sacred Armor Mastery III
-Extra Lay on Hands III
-Sacred Defense
-Improved Sacred Defense: Durable Defense III
-Improved Sacred Defense: Inciting Defense
-Bulwark Aura III
-Greater Sacred Defense: Strong Defense III
-Charisma II
-Greater Sacred Defense: Tenacious Defense III
-Reinforced Defense: Reinforced Armor III
-Harbored By Light III
-Greater Sacred Defense: Hardy Defense III
-Divine Righteousness
-Redemption
-Glorious Stand
-Resistance Aura II
-Eternal Defender

Build uses Falchions! Elf for displacement clickies. Full plate for PRR/MRR!

[Nodoze]

I had not thought about Cloudkill triggering Shiradi effects - very nice. I totally agree that Cloudkill is providing a lot more value, but I wanted to point out Obscuring Mist because it is often overlooked as a useful boss debuff. I know that I have to be reminded about it periodically, but it provides a lot of value at all levels for a level 1 spell slot and the Meteor Shower build playing solo ought to be able to use it to good effect.

However I need to correct myself : in fact I was misremembering the clickie suggestion. It is not Obscuring Mist that people kept mentioning to me in the past as worth collecting, it was Solid Fog. There is an additional debuff included in Solid Fog and it can be used to grab aggro, but it should not proc Shiradi effects so Cloudkill is going to be strictly better in your circumstances.

I'm glad to hear that you're having so much fun with the Colors EPL. I just ETR'd into it for the first time but have not had a chance to take it for a spin yet. Soon!

The previous +1 was for reminding me & others of Obscuring Mist as I plan to add it to my daughter's spell repertoire (assuming I can free up a slot) on her Meteor-I for Bosses in case I am not on or when I am on that account instead of my main. I had overlooked that...

The Credit regarding knowing that both CloudKill & IceStorm can proc Shiradi effects go to the originators & contributors in Firewall's WarCannon thread & psykoosi's Dread Ninja thread. The DN thread briefly mentioned the benefits of AoEs for throwers so I asked for more details on options/combos in both threads & Firewall spelled out the Shiradi damage angle the most clearly... I only then tried out the combos after getting guidance/tidbits & then shared my experiences...

On my WarCannon I just slotted all 3 Boss Concealment AoEs we are discussing (Obscuring Mist, Solid Fog, & Cloudkill) and jumped into the Cannith Wilderness and confirmed my suspicion that Cloudkill also has superior Optics...

I did this test because one thing that I hated on my old graphics card was when Kobold Shaman put up Obscuring Mist as I felt blind (though it isn't as bad on my newer machine)... Both Solid Fog's white AoE and Obscuring Mist's black AoE manifest in a spherical cloud affect that covers the entire area (worse from some angles then others at times) while Cloudkill only does this pale green cloud that hugs the floor and I find that AoE much more friendly to fight in...

Please share feedback on your experiences with the Colors EPL... In Epics I don't know if I can really tell which stance is procing a given effect since I have both (the Shiradi or the ePL) and I think it is also difficult to tell with one or more folk in Shiradi in the party... The real feel on how often it procs would be while in a party with no shiradi in epics which I can't really give much feedback on as we pretty much always have at least 1 shiradi these days... IIRC I eRed then TRed and I believe the stance was working while in Heroics as it was very obvious & devastating when it proced in Heroics and it seemed pretty often as a thrower which is the best isolated feedback I can give (& I was only in Heroics briefly as I heroicXPstoned my 3rd life to 18+ to get back to Epics ASAP)...

[unbongwah]

I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search.

See my Dwarven Defender and Sacred Defender threads for examples of S&B tank builds. Bear in mind three things:

• Paladins & fighters are due for a revamp next update: the Stalwart / Sacred Defender and KotC PrEs are getting tweaked and a new PrE (Vanguard) is being added.
• Armor is also being revamped to give hvy armor and S&B toons better defenses.
• S&B tanks will probably continue to be the redheaded stepchildren of DDO (or at least the forums), due to their low DPS and the narrowly-perceived niche into which they fall.

[Nodoze]

Hey mate's i'm new player, but a big fan of NWN / DnD series and games. I started recently and i'm a bit lost. I want to make a paladin tank (good enough to tank end game), but i don't know where to search. Please help.

Cheers Rash

Welcome to the game. A few things to note that's different about DDO and NWN/DnD tanking, is that AC is much, much, much less important. In DDO we have a stat called Physical Resistance Rating (PRR) that will reduce the damage you take by a percentage (somewhat like immunity in NWN), dodge and concealment and incorporeality also are very important for tanks, where in NWN/DnD dodge doesn't exist, and incorporeality is only for monsters like Shadows. That being said, it's a good time to start a paladin tank. Next update is basically focused on upgrading paladins and heavy-armor tanks in general. I'll edit in a build here once I make one, but knowing the differences is more important than the build itself (in my opinion).

I wish someone had told me this when I started.. My first character was a rogue with a shield. Agh.

See my Dwarven Defender and Sacred Defender threads for examples of S&B tank builds. Bear in mind three things:

• Paladins & fighters are due for a revamp next update: the Stalwart / Sacred Defender and KotC PrEs are getting tweaked and a new PrE (Vanguard) is being added.
• Armor is also being revamped to give hvy armor and S&B toons better defenses.
• S&B tanks will probably continue to be the redheaded stepchildren of DDO (or at least the forums), due to their low DPS and the narrowly-perceived niche into which they fall.

Rash, Welcome to DDO! You already have some great responses (one came while I was typing this so I edited my post) and I figured I would give you some feedback also...

You do indeed have excellent timing (if things go as they are projected and happen soon(TM). AC is very useful up to a point in Heroics (levels 1-20) so hopefully by the time you get to where AC isn't currently that useful (not sure what level) the new update with the Paladin and AC changes will drop... If things get delayed or you level too fast you may find yourself wanting to Lesser Reincarnate to a DPS version until they make the changes (that is what my buddy had to do to keep enjoying playing his Paladin when tanking really didn't help much anymore)...

One thing that I will caution regarding AC tanks, especially AC Tanks "good enough to tank end game" is that AC Tanks are more gear intensive and benefit more from past lives then some other builds...

For example, my AC Tank is currently "offline" as I switched that character temporarily to a DPS build to more quickly move through Heroic Total Reincarnations (TRs) to upgrade from a 32 point build to a 34 point build to a 36 point build as well as to Epic Reincarnate (ER) to grind out fate points and Epic Past Lives (ePLs) faster... Once I get those ground out I will ER then immediately TR one last time back into a significantly upgraded AC Tank (and hopefully by then the Paladin and AC changes have dropped)...

One site you may want to book mark is www.ddowiki.com as it is a great resource on many topics...

Not to get ahead of yourself or overload you with too much info upfront but someone aspiring to end game may be well served to understanding Reincarnations:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Reincarnation

The above being said you may be better served doing a different build for your first life to grind out gear and what not (especially if timing doesn't go your way)... I like AC Tanks but I found mine on my first life underpowered and too slow to progress though the lives to get upgraded... If I were new to the game and wanted to play a Paladin, one build that I would consider starting out with on my first character on a first life would be something like the following:

Evasion Paladin for new players

[Caprice]

Hi Unbongwah

well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels. Currently I am progressing toward my 11th level which was going to be a 4th level in Sorcerer. If you want to spend time I will definitely be a good pupil.

Tanya

I'm not Unbongwah but I'll butt in, and hopefully in enough detail to make some sense. ;-)

When you Lesser Reincarnate (LR), you are temporarily sent back to level 1 and then quickly level through all the levels one by one until you catch up with the highest level you have now. At each level you can decide whether you want to keep the class you picked originally, or you can pick a new one. When we talk about LR+X where X is some number, that number means that you get to change the class you picked at each level up only up to the X times total. To get rid of 2 Barbarian levels you need a LR+3, LR+5, or the free LR+20 that was given out some time ago, if you have one.

Unfortunately you don't get to drop all the levels of a class at once. You start from level 1 and can only change them one at a time, and you are restricted to 3 different classes maximum even considering later levels. So the first time you come to a Barbarian level, you can only change it to Bard or Sorceror because you have that second Barbarian level you took later that locks you in. And you cannot change any Bard or Sorceror levels you took between the 2 Barbarian levels into anything else but Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because that later level of Barbarian is your 3rd of 3 possible classes at one time. But if you change the first Barbarian level to Bard or Sorceror, then when you get to the second Barbarian level you can change it to any class you qualify for because there is no later Barbarian level that locks you in anymore and whatever new class you pick becomes your 3rd class.

So hypothetically, let's suppose you have a LR+3 and your original leveling order was: Barbarian, Bard, Bard, Barbarian, Bard, Bard, Bard, Sorc, Sorc, Sorc. When you hit level 1, you can only pick from Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because of the 3 class limit. So you use 1 of your 3 changes to make that Bard. Now you get to pick for level 2, and again your only options are Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror because you have that later level of Barbarian restricting you. So you stick with Bard. The same thing happens at level 3, and you stay with Bard again. Then you come to the other Barbarian level that you took at level 4, and now you can change it to anything because all of your other levels are just Bard or Sorceror. So you can switch that to Rogue (or whatever, but let's go with Rogue). That used up a 2nd of your 3 allowed changes from the LR+3. From here on you can only pick Bard, Rogue, or Sorceror, but you also only have one more time you can change a class pick. So lets say that you decide to use the last change on level 5 to switch that Bard level to Rogue to work on your trap skills. From then on you have to stick to the class you had previously chosen for each level, and that means 6-10 are Bard, Bard, Sorc, Sorc, and Sorc. You are now a Bard 5 / Sorceror 3 / Rogue 2. But unfortunately you could not change the very first level to Rogue, which means that you will be playing catchup on trap skills for a long time and may not be able to do them well until very high levels.

Or more visually:
1: was Barbarian -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> change to Bard (change 1 of 3)
2: was Bard -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> leave as Bard
3: was Bard -> can only pick Barbarian, Bard, or Sorceror -> leave as Bard
4: was Barbarian -> can pick any class -> change to Rogue (change 2 of 3)
5: was Bard -> can only pick Bard, Rogue, or Sorceror -> change to Rogue (change 3 of 3)
6: was Bard -> must leave as Bard due to no changes left -> leave as Bard
7: was Bard -> must leave as Bard due to no changes left -> leave as Bard
8: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror
9: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror
10: was Sorceror -> must leave as Sorceror due to no changes left -> leave as Sorceror

So as you see it may matter a lot where you took your Barbarian levels; if your first 2 levels were both Barbarian then you have levels 2 through 10 to make a lot of changes, but if you took them at 1 and 10 then you are not able to pick a new class until level 10.

With the LR+20 heart you never run out of changes so you could keep changing the Bard or Sorceror levels to Rogue after level 5, or to each other, but until you are picking for the last Barbarian level you are not able to pick any other class at all.

I don't know what to suggest for your build though. It feels to me like you are trying to fit too many things in, and I am worried that when you get to higher levels you may find that being half a Bard and half a Sorceror is less than the sum of the parts. OTOH you might do well in the Shiradi Champion Epic Destiny between lots of hits from Force spells and from your repeater.

[unbongwah]

well in game are you able to drop classes...like the barbarian class and then add one of the others. I am not familiar with the process. I definitely want to maximize her use of heavy repeaters. Spell wise I think she is good with a mix of heal, sonic and force spells. I think electrical as well. I carry a lot of wands too. I am already paying for a subscription and have access to Artificer...even Druid. I do not think I prefer the Swashbuckler build. If you explain to me how to remove the Barbarian class in game I can do that...it is only 2 levels.

Unfortunately, Artificers and Favored Souls aren't free to VIPs; you still have to unlock them separately via Favor or the DDO store. [Account comparisons]

When you LR, you re-level your char from 1 to whatever your current level is. If you use a basic Lesser Heart of Wood, you're not allowed to change any of your class choices, but must relevel in exactly the same order you took them in. But if you use a +X LHoW, you're able to change up to <X> # of class choices; so if you use an LR +20 on a lvl 20 char, you could change every class choice you made. But like I said, there's a catch: if you already have 3 classes in your build, you're not allowed to switch to a 4th class until after you have removed all levels in at least one of your original classes.

E.g., in your case, let's pretend you leveled bard 1-5, barb 1-2, sorc 1-3; and let's say you wanted to replace barb with rog. Normally, you would want to start rog to max out your skill pts; but in this case you wouldn't be allowed to do so during the LR process, because you'd be rog 1 / bard 4 / barb 2 / sorc 3 at that point. Basically the LR process isn't smart enough to realize you're trying to swap one class for another.

Instead, you'd have to do something like this during the LR:

1: bard (no change)
2: bard (no change)
3: bard (no change)
4: bard (no change)
5: bard (no change)
6: barb -> bard (cannot switch to rog yet b/c still have 2nd barb lvl)
7: barb -> rog (at this pt you can switch classes b/c you're eliminating barb from your build)
8: sorc (no change)
9: sorc (no change)
10: sorc (no change)

Does that make sense?

Moving onto spellcasting: it's generally a bad idea to combine two (or more) caster classes, particularly if you want to use DC-dependent DPS spells. Basically, rather than a versatile caster, you usually just wind up with a gimp one. So I would suggest you narrow your focus for your build to core competencies. Since you already have a sorc, I'd suggest focusing on the bard side of things.

[01bethdefranco]

Hi Everyone

to Unbonwah and Caprice...both excellent responses and very informative. I did not know anything about LR. I have points to spare in the shop so I can buy one. As I mentioned I have all of the classes available and unlocked...even Druid. So if I am understanding both of you, I need a LR+3 and I can change Barbarian out in that process. So I need to decide which would maximize the character. Let me list the build as much as I can and show you what she has. I am not so good at copying things or screenshots, so it may be cumbersome. Anyway I made a screenshot of her stats but I do not know how to post it here. I can screenshot whatever is needed.

Tanya

ps. ok so now I have LR+3 any advice as to which class to replace Barbarian with and enhancements to take

[Nodoze]

Hi Everyone

to Unbonwah and Caprice...both excellent responses and very informative. I did not know anything about LR. I have points to spare in the shop so I can buy one. As I mentioned I have all of the classes available and unlocked...even Druid. So if I am understanding both of you, I need a LR+3 and I can change Barbarian out in that process. So I need to decide which would maximize the character. Let me list the build as much as I can and show you what she has. I am not so good at copying things or screenshots, so it may be cumbersome. Anyway I made a screenshot of her stats but I do not know how to post it here. I can screenshot whatever is needed.

Tanya

Aye, Unbonwah and Caprice are princes among men when it comes to helping folk. I've been here since 2006 and still regularly learn something new from them and other great folk on the forums.

One thing that may help is to use the DDO Character Generator (CG) to, as best you can, document your character. It is a great tool that lets you create/recreate your character and goes level by level just like regular characters do.

When you get ready to share it you then Export the build as text that pastes well into the Forums.

The great folk on the forums can also give you some build ideas also via the CG... The link to download the DDO CG is:

http://www.rjcyberware.com/DDO/DDOCharGen.html

[Batilla]

I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer. And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks

edited for grammar

[Varinon]

And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks

Unfortunately, Nothing is Hidden uses your spot skill, so you can't just dump it and rely on the enhancement.

[Caprice]

Unfortunately, Nothing is Hidden uses your spot skill, so you can't just dump it and rely on the enhancement.

I keep reading conflicting information about this ability, and I could swear that I have seen posts on the forums here claiming both ways. The wiki claims that it does use Search, but that the ability is buggy and does not activate consistently. I have never been inspired to test it and instead rely on the traditional solutions of either having a solid Spot skill, remembering the quests from previous runs, or "cheating" by looking quests up online.

Besides, I have yet to build a character that didn't have 6 AP worth of really nice abilities I wanted to pick up someplace else. ;-)

[Varinon]

I keep reading conflicting information about this ability, and I could swear that I have seen posts on the forums here claiming both ways. The wiki claims that it does use Search, but that the ability is buggy and does not activate consistently. I have never been inspired to test it and instead rely on the traditional solutions of either having a solid Spot skill, remembering the quests from previous runs, or "cheating" by looking quests up online.

Besides, I have yet to build a character that didn't have 6 AP worth of really nice abilities I wanted to pick up someplace else. ;-)

From what I know, it works on both spot /and/ search, so you need search too. I've not personally tested that you need search, but from what I've read it seems you do.

[Caprice]

I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer.

Are you sure that you want to LR+1 out of the Rogue level? Another option would be to add a second Rogue level so that you get Evasion. You would lose a little runearm damage (~10%), 1 bonus artificer feat, 1 bonus caster level from "Wondrous items" clickies (i.e. clothing, jewelry, and trinkets), and access to the Artificer Capstone enhancements. That last costs you 2 INT, and either a bonus of:
- +1 to the enhancement on your armor and weapon (=+1 damage and +3 spellpower), or
- +5 Spellcraft (=+5 spellpower) and having your clickies cast as Caster Level 20 rather than their natural CL.
These are nice bonuses but possibly not as nice as Evasion.

INT-heavy with heavy repeater and rune arm is viable (and more or less the standard approach AFAICT). However you almost certainly want high DEX too to qualify for IPS (min DEX 19) and Combat Archery (min DEX 21). IMO you could skimp on Combat Archery and you will not lose a lot of effectiveness, but IPS is extremely powerful and worth building for. Are you willing to use tomes to make those possible without undercutting INT much?

[unbongwah]

Another option would be to add a second Rogue level so that you get Evasion. You would lose a little runearm damage (~10%), 1 bonus artificer feat, 1 bonus caster level from "Wondrous items" clickies (i.e. clothing, jewelry, and trinkets), and access to the Artificer Capstone enhancements.

You also lose two lvl 6 spell slots, so you have to pick two from Reconstruct, Deadly Weapons, Blade Barrier, and Tactical Detonation.

IMO you could skimp on Combat Archery and you will not lose a lot of effectiveness

CA is +1[W] which with, say, Needle is worth an extra +6.5 dmg on avg. It's not a must-have, IMHO, but every little bit helps, and since SDK get +2 DEX, might as well aim for the top.

[Nodoze]

I'm looking to make a shadar-kai artificer pure build the first level in rogue that results from being a Shadar-Kai will be getting removed by a lesser reincarnation anyone know how to do a good Artificer? I'm looking for the build to be rather repeating crossbow and INT heavy if that is viable late game on a pure artificer. And on another note, is it viable to replace spot with Nothing is Hidden in the shadar-kai enhancement tree for a trap disarmer in general? not too familiar with it but it looks like it might be. Just wanted some advice thanks

edited for grammar

Welcome and lots of good replies already though I didn't see any actual builds posted yet.

The following is a Pure Artificer build that I have played and I liked the ShadowDancer Epic Destiny for it as I thought it gave the best balance of (less spiky) offense & defense including adding Evasion to a pure Artificer (as well as boosting trapping skills for Epics):

Dubbell-O-Seven-casting-ranged-focused-Artificer

There is a good discussion in the Initial Post on "Alternative [Racial] Build Options" and though there is no specific section on Shadar-Kai I suspect they could fit into the discussion section for the other +2 Dex races...

I have not played a Shadar-Kai yet though I could maybe see some value in their Shadow Phase/Jaunt ability on a build that kites (could maybe save twisting 'Unearthly Reactions" though I also value the dodge/reflex bonuses). I didn't otherwise see anything in the Shardar-Kai racial tree that jumped out to me as especially useful to an Artificer build so you may be better served with another race unless you just need/want a Shadar-Kai artificer for some reason (Completionist/PLs/flavor/etc)... The above being said I played the WarForged (WF) version of this build on a 1st life and immensely enjoyed it (there are 1st life WF build options in the thread) and highly recommend it (it is hard to beat full self "heals" from Reconstructs)...