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[unbongwah]

Can anyone give me an "idea" on a maximum dps/decent saves/decent healing build?

Right now, one of the best DPS+self-healing combos is, ironically, a Swashbuckling bard: have a look at the Count and Jack Dancer for examples of what you can do with pure & MCed bards, respectively. Cetus is the go-to build for anyone looking for a self-sufficient monk / kensei, although it you don't have Bladeforged unlocked you lose one of its best aspects, the BF Reconstruct SLA.

When U23 rolls out, a pure or mostly-pure pally is gonna be a much better DPS choice, thanks largely to the buff to Holy Sword (equipped weapons gain +1 crit range & multiplier). The downside is you don't gain lvl 4 spells until pal lvl 14 and the other DPS boosts in KotC are welcome but insufficient on their own, IMHO. Plus ofc U23 hasn't hit live yet; you might be done with your next life by the time it rolls out, for all I know.

[unbongwah]

• Druid is sometimes popular on staff builds too; you don't get a feat choice out of it but you do get free Magical Training, like with Wizard. However it also lets you cast Ram's Might for a stacking +2 STR and +2 Damage, and Shillelagh will increase the damage of a wooden Quarterstaff by +1[W]. However most of the better staves are not wooden (e.g. Theurgic, Sireth; SOWS is the best one that is) so that's not such a big benefit in the long run. I used to like this one but I am less fond of it now.

If you've figured out how to take a druid splash on a pally, I'd love to know how!

[Caprice]

If you've figured out how to take a druid splash on a pally, I'd love to know how!

Ironically I had just pointed out that particular impossibility the day before. Meh. I'm certainly not perfect. I think it stands as a general statement on non-Paladin staff builds too though.

[Nephylim3]

So after looking over that mass pouring of information, I'm thinking the 15/4/1 progression is probably ideal. I can probably get by on trapping skills with backloading the other rogue levels somewhat as to get the best bang for your buck. Likewise, I have no guarantee that I'll be the forced trapper, and aside from the skills boost 5 rogue offers me nothing really. I do however want to be ABLE to disarm traps regardless, although if I solo EH is probably more commonplace. The spare +1 I would love to pull out a monk, however wearing heavy armor would completely remove the stances as an option truthfully. The ideal +1 seems to be a fighter, as the mage +1 I can use a shield wand for the same effect essentially.

I would love to twist a dance of flowers but with no monk ranks it certainly doesn't seem ideal unless I give up my heavy armor. Given the way Lammania has gone, I actually wouldn't mind giving up on heavy armor but I wanted to at least give it a shot. Given that I chose to, it would reopen monk and it's stances, and give me options to go up their stance tree at least.

It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.

[Caprice]

When U23 rolls out, a pure or mostly-pure pally is gonna be a much better DPS choice, thanks largely to the buff to Holy Sword (equipped weapons gain +1 crit range & multiplier). The downside is you don't gain lvl 4 spells until pal lvl 14 and the other DPS boosts in KotC are welcome but insufficient on their own, IMHO.

Other than Swashbuckler, no one else gets access to the tier 5 enhancements that provide the equivalent Competence bonuses to weapon critical profiles until character level 12 either, so at least on a pure Paladin you aren't waiting that much longer for the big boost when compared to Fighter, Rogue, Monk, or Barbarian. Since most of us are going to spend a lot more time at levels 14+ than at levels 12 and 13, that's not a big downside IMO.

I also more or less disagree on the KotC enhancements being insufficient. The KotC Cores grant +1d6 damage at level 1, +2d6 @3, +3d6 @6, +4d6 @12, +6d6 @18, and +8d6@20. IMO those are really nice bonuses for heroic leveling and slightly better than the passive bonuses that the other physical damage trees offer. For example compare those to the +1/+2 damage per tier we see for most weapon improvements (e.g. Kensei's Weapon Group Specialization, Henshin/Acrobat's Staff Training, or Battle Engineer's Weapon Training). Other trees may edge out ahead on damage due to having better special attacks and things like Power Surge, but it does not look like a major difference anymore and KotC has much better survivability perks than those others. My biggest complaint is that the KotC cleaves come later than the feats but the KotC ones do more base damage which helps mitigate the delay somewhat.

We'll see if a hypothetical future Fighter pass in U25 or whenever scales Kensei through the roof but for now I expect that the combination of the new KotC enhancements and the armor changes in U23 will mean that Paladin will be the easiest physical damage class to level by a good margin, even ignoring the better saves and good self-healing.

[Caprice]

I would love to twist a dance of flowers but with no monk ranks it certainly doesn't seem ideal unless I give up my heavy armor. Given the way Lammania has gone, I actually wouldn't mind giving up on heavy armor but I wanted to at least give it a shot. Given that I chose to, it would reopen monk and it's stances, and give me options to go up their stance tree at least.

It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.

A Paladin15/Rogue4/Monk1 could be a great build too. You end up with an early feat slot with nothing nice to put in it (defaults to Toughness) and the later/stronger/nicer feats are all delayed a couple levels but it should work out in the end, especially since you have a group to level with on those "feat slippage" levels.

[Nodoze]

... It's looking like a 15 pal / 5 rogue or 15 pal /4 rogue / 1 fighter is the direction I'll be aiming. I'm hoping to be a high offense character than can trap reasonably well and tank in a super pinch if need be, but I may be overreaching there.

A Paladin15/Rogue4/Monk1 could be a great build too. You end up with an early feat slot with nothing nice to put in it (defaults to Toughness) and the later/stronger/nicer feats are all delayed a couple levels but it should work out in the end, especially since you have a group to level with on those "feat slippage" levels.

If you are trying to tank for your group you may be able to double dip to get extra hate generation in both the Paladin and Fighter trees with Fighter 1 from Inciting Defense's 75% Competence bonus to melee threat generation. IIRC that doesn't require an active stance that conflicts with other stances. I haven't personally tried it yet but I have noticed it as possible low hanging fruit for a tankish Paladin that splashes Fighter and hope to fully verify it at some point.

Also, in case you missed it, I think MacRighteous linked a 15Paladin/5Rogue build for you in response to your related questions in the Evasion Paladin thread... Figured I would post it here in this thread to make sure you saw it and for others that come and maybe are interested in a similar split...

[Caprice]

Also, in case you missed it, I think MacRighteous linked a 15Paladin/5Rogue build for you in response to your related questions in the Evasion Paladin thread... Figured I would post it here in this thread to make sure you saw it and for others that come and maybe are interested in a similar split...

One caveat is that the Knight of the Holy Stick build isn't a long-term trapper, since he is taking Rogue 5 by character level 12 to get Staff Specialization ASAP and the Rogue skills can't keep up afterwords.

[Nodoze]

One caveat is that the Knight of the Holy Stick build isn't a long-term trapper, since he is taking Rogue 5 by character level 12 to get Staff Specialization ASAP and the Rogue skills can't keep up afterwords.

Good point. I guess one would have to modify it to spread the Rogue levels out and later like Ellis did in this post (posting here for folk who are following this thread but not the others).

[Raven_Swift]

Don't know if i am just in denial, but I was hoping to make a pure paladin out of my pdk to fully take advantage of the pdk enhancement line. Is it possible to reincarnate a 1 fighter/14 paladin pdk to a 15 paladin. If so, any good points on the pure paladin build with pdk enhancement line? I figured maybe someone has done this and has some advice, or a build even. I enjoy crushing undead, fiends, evil slayers and the such. Is there charisma for damage weapons out there that I can take advantage of?

[Nodoze]

Don't know if i am just in denial, but I was hoping to make a pure paladin out of my pdk to fully take advantage of the pdk enhancement line. Is it possible to reincarnate a 1 fighter/14 paladin pdk to a 15 paladin. If so, any good points on the pure paladin build with pdk enhancement line? I figured maybe someone has done this and has some advice, or a build even. I enjoy crushing undead, fiends, evil slayers and the such. Is there charisma for damage weapons out there that I can take advantage of?

Yes you can LR+1 to swap to pure Paladin as long as you are LG. AFAIK, unless something has changed, they have unfortunately kept Divine Might as being only a bonus for Strength based Paladins so PDK Charisma based, Elven Dex based, & Dwarven Con based Paladins will be behind on damage...

You can go strength based and still leverage many good things in the PDK tree without necessarily going Charisma based for damage as the tree has many good things. That being said going Charisma based may not please min/maxers but is certainly fine for flavor or otherwise with some benefits especially if you are aware of the pros/cons and make that decision with your eyes wide open.

I haven't seen any builds posted yet but will keep my eyes open for one...

[maayan2003]

i really like the idea of fighting with a staff

and would love if somebody could point me to a first life 28pt/32pt staff build

[unbongwah]

See my Halfling Acrobat and Three Ring Circus threads; note that the latter hasn't been updated for the current Enhancements (sorry!), although the basic advice still applies.

I've also been kicking around some ideas for post-U23 rog 13 / pal 4 / wiz 3 F2P staff builds; haven't gotten around to making any of them, though.

[IshmaylFading]

Hey there,
I've recently gotten back into DDO after about a year off, and want to use my Lesser Oak Branch to respec my main toon. Currently he's level 25, Ftr1/Pal19, and is kind of all over the place in build. I know that that class selection & race are not the ideal for a good Intimitank, but I would like to keep playing him. Can someone build me a Ftr1/Pal19 intimitank so I can not suck so much?

[unbongwah]

By "Lesser Oak Branch," I presume you mean a Lesser Heart of Wood. Which combat style did you want to use? I.e., S&B, THF, etc.

[IshmaylFading]

By "Lesser Oak Branch," I presume you mean a Lesser Heart of Wood. Which combat style did you want to use? I.e., S&B, THF, etc.

Yeah, that's what I meant, I was going from memory.

I play dwarven war axes (or occasional warhammers & battleaxes) & tower shield, I guess that's technically S&B.

[unbongwah]

I've not yet worked out any new builds for U23, so for now I'll point you at my Sacred Defender thread and say, "do something like that, but take the Cleave atks from KotC instead of the Cleave feats."

[Tilomere]

That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.

[Caprice]

That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.

That Arcane Spell Failure target is rough. Plate (Heavy Armor) has 35% ASF and Tower Shield has 50%, which combines for a total of 85% ASF. You can get up to 40% ASF reduction from EK, 15% from an augment or gear*, and 15% from race (Elf/HElf/ML or WF)**. That totals to 70% maximum reduction possible, so you would fail casts 15% of the time. I wouldn't call that acceptable.

Would you consider dropping to a Large shield? Those only have 15% ASF vs Tower's 50%, so Heavy + Large totals at 50% ASF. 50% ASF reduction is achievable, and lets you either have free race choice or choose T5 in a different PrE. Of course the shield collection is worse for Larges, not just because the AC and Blocking DR is lower, but also just thinking about epic options. On a Divine a Dethek Runestone is great but it isn't as appealing for an Arcane, other than the 20 Alchemical USP. The PDK or Bulwark Tower shields would offer more.


* Technically 20% is possible on gear but it only comes on a single piece of named armor that isn't Heavy. Some special gear has lower ASF on it that is specific to that armor/shield (e.g. MFP) but those will be terrible choices at higher levels.
** IIUC Racial ASF reduction only works for armor/plating ASF, 10% of the EK reduction also only applies to armor, and 5% of the EK ASF reduction only applies to shields. That can complicate things too.

[unbongwah]

That can Mass Hold + Energy burst, and still melee decently with Int to attack/damage or charisma to attack/damage. And self heal of course.

Mass Hold is tricky, since you need at least lvl 7 spells for Mass Hold Person (wiz 13 / sorc 14); but ofc the more you MC the worse your DCs & Spell Pen gets.

My first thought is BF w/Addy Body and Skyvault Shield (zero ASF and 3 aug slots to customize it). Between BF & EK ASF reduction enhs plus ASF gear, you should be able to eliminate it. Pal / sorc is the obvious combo, I guess. PDK for CHA-to-dmg w/b.swords would also work; not sure what you'd do for self-healing then, though.

Another possibility would be to modify my Lich Knight build: I went SWF w/orbs, but swapping those feats for S&B would work too. Sun elf is best choice if you're looking to max out your INT and Spell Pen (and don't mind paying for the LR); that requires redistributing APs, though.