Bard/Ranger/Rogue

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Hi All,

Please provide feedback ... does this combination stretch any of the rogue or bard skills too thin ... in your opinion?

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nyx Leto
Level 14 Chaotic Good Drow Female
(2 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 10 Bard) 
Hit Points: 122
Spell Points: 378 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 7
Reflex: 18
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 14)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            18                    21
Constitution         12                    12
Intelligence         16                    16
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             16                    22

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 14)
Balance               8                     9
Bluff                 3                     6
Concentration         1                     3
Diplomacy             7                    15
Disable Device        7                    21
Haggle                3                     6
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  8                    17
Intimidate            3                     6
Jump                  3                     5
Listen                1                     4
Move Silently         8                    17
Open Lock             8                    17.5
Perform               n/a                  15
Repair                3                     3
Search                7                    26
Spot                  3                    14.5
Swim                 -1                     1
Tumble                6                     7
Use Magic Device      7                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Listen (+2)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Perception I
Enhancement: Elven Keen Eyes I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I

Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Ranger Hide I
Enhancement: Ranger Move Silently I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Ranger Search I

Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I

Level 4 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I

Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Charm Person
Enhancement: Elven Perception II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Ranger Swim I

Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Spell (1): Otto's Resistable Dance
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I

Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Concentration I

Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Heroism
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II

Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (2): Suggestion
Enhancement: Elven Perception III

Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II

Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (2): Fox's Cunning
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (3): Haste
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II

Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Spell (3): Displacement
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Elven Perception IV

Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)

Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (3): Charm Monster
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III

[Schmackdown]

You took TWF at level 1, when you get it at Ranger 2 for free.

Bow Strength isn't going to do much for you with a starting STR of 8.

You took the Rogue and Ranger levels early rather than spreading them out, meaning you can't capitalize on native skill point allocation to Search/Spot and possibly DD/OL.

I don't see what the levels of ranger are doing for you in this build. If you want TWF/Finesse I think you'd be better off with two levels of fighter for the feats.

[Thrudh]

I'm not quite sure what you're getting from the ranger levels..

You'll want Weapon Finesse at level 3 (I noticed you didn't take a feat there) Two weapon fighting is automatic for 2nd level rangers, so don't take that feat (or better yet, take the feat, and don't take two levels of ranger).

Build is fine... Bard/Rogue is a good combination (I have one myself). The ranger levels just don't add much...

Your strength is too low for Bow Strength to help much, so a free feat of two-weapon fighting is about all you're getting... Two more levels of Bard or 1/1 more Bard/Rogue or even 2 more levels of Rogue would be much more useful

[jarlaxle_dourden]

that I get TWF free ...

The ranger levels are mainly for the purpose of the Free Rapid Shot.

Bow stength came free and yes I would swap something else out in the place of TWF because I don't see this char deep into the melee much ...

Just using the bows as low damage debuffers (curse, puncture, wound, weaken, etc...).

What would you suggest instead of the TWF? Are the levels of ranger worth it for the rapid shot?

Thanks for the feedback.

J

[Impaqt]

Rapid Shot: The Speed difference isnt much.... If your dealing a lot of damage its nice, but hardly noticable for debuffing bows.

I would dump the ranger levels all together. Go 11Bard/3Rogue This will allow you to shore up your Rogue Skills, Open up Tier 2 Rogue Skill ENH, and give you another d6 Sneak attack damage.

[Zyklon]

I would also suggest dumping the ranger levels. While you also get martial weapons with ranger you get the main one, Rapier, with Bard.

Also, in my experience having two weapon fighting without the improved or greater two weapon fighting isn't really worth it.

-

[spifflove]

Fairly close to my main so this is from the horses mouth:

1. A drow ranger is inferior to an elf ranger

2. The ranger levels do nothing unless you want to afford shot on the run (which I did)

3. The two weapon fighting line is superior. You can use the ranger levels to justify the feat cost, if desired.

4. With a bard try to get to level 7 as quickly as possible.

8. You could add a Heavy repeater and some believe that rapid shot will help your weapon speed. Others doubt this.

9. Two weapon line = 3 feats, plus weapon finesse and improved crit pierce. Two ranger levels would allow the Repeater.

10. If I could do it over I would drop the Ranger levels and get more bard levels.

11. stats 9/18/7/16/8/18 or if you want a warchanter 13/18/7/16/8/16 plus power attack (again requiring the ranger levels to free up the feat)

12. Good luck. You will need it.

[jarlaxle_dourden]

Because I have a elf ranger/bard that I am building as well.

It has no rogue skills though.

I was designing that char as a virtuoso ranger/bard but as I was building the char I was thinking ... how could I do this and include the rogue skills?

Then the idea hit me to do the rogue/ranger/bard. I can see the problems already though ... not enough mana ... to-hit in the toilet ... not enough feats to do what I want to do.

I'm kind of agreeing with the others and droping the levels of ranger ... the rapid shot though eats up two feats as you need precise shot as a pre-req. That is quite painful to give up two feats just to shoot a now quicker ...

I'm not sure if this build is feasable in the end game but it is not too bad at the low levels.

J