Collecting the Best Suggestions for Improving the New Raid Loot System

[Cowdenicus]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.

(Weird, I feel like there was at least one other suggestion I noticed that I wanted to include here, but I can't remember what it was now.)

MT

there was also a suggestion of 1 guaranteed plus a roll on the others.

/oh and NINJA OP

[MysticTheurge]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.) Also, potentially, require at least one raid completion in order to use items from that raid.

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.


5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

6) Reduce the raid timer to some shorter length of time.

7) Create special tables for non-raid loot from raid chests that excludes "junk modifiers" (i.e. "lesser" anything, stat/skill bonuses below a certain threshold, power V or less)

I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

[MysticTheurge]

there was also a suggestion of 1 guaranteed plus a roll on the others.

I just added a note about that one.

[Cowdenicus]

I just added a note about that one.

ok

[Elfvyra]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

[Cowdenicus]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

because the system is bad in its current form.

[MysticTheurge]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

Well... um... I wasn't really whining. And I think I've been pretty clear as a strong supporter of the new system. But I think the things that are listed above could actually improve the game (not just the new raid system) pretty significantly. You know, it's sort of like how no one talks about a thing when it's just been the way it is forever, but once you put something on the table everyone's got some suggestions for how to improve it. It's sort of like that.

I was hoping to actually collect some of the best ideas that actually mesh with the new system in a place that was relatively free of the whole back and forth discussion and comments that did stuff like, say, accuse other people of whining when they're just trying to offer suggestions.

But you know, whatever.

[Geriant]

First, the new raid loot system works for me, but the old one did too. I think the new one is better to me personally because I'll get something from the chest every time. **** loot or not, I'll at least be able to get some cash out of the deal. The way it is now, the only thing I'm guaranteed is I'll spend money repairing stuff after the raid is done.

I also wish we didn't lose old threads, so many of the complaints about the new system were the same ones about the old system. Especially the ones saying the system would be the end of pugs and/or the game.

That being said, one idea not mentioned here would be to have the chests generate loot more like the static reward system we have now. The non-named items would be on par with the named items and not necessarily the level of the quest. If that means it has to be bound, I don't think there would be a problem with that. I just ask that Turbine put some sort of excluding factor in the random generator that prevents the items from being something you can't use. I seem to get two or three docents from every static reward when not playing a warforged, that shouldn't happen. I know it isn't quite 'realistic' but if it is a bound item, it should be something the character can put to use.

~G

[MysticTheurge]

That being said, one idea not mentioned here would be to have the chests generate loot more like the static reward system we have now. The non-named items would be on par with the named items and not necessarily the level of the quest.

Aren't they determining "on par" by using the level/GP value of the static items, though?

[Riddikulus]

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

Alternatively, make the warded chest regular loot a couple rolls off the end reward table. That way you won't get "junk" like gems, gold, and repair kits.

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

I like this one although it may not be an easily doable one. More doable, although probably too unrestricted would be to make the items "bind on equip". That is a common item type that shouldn't be too difficult to implement (LOTRO does this).

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.

5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

Both very good suggestions.

[I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

You can do a minimum 1 item by just throwing away and rerolling any loot generation that results in no items. That would imply though that they do the rolls for everyone at the same time when the chest is open, not on a character by character basis.

[Graal]

2) Its not really possible to increase the treasure level. I really meant maximum when I said maximum, at least for the Stormreaver. The lower level raids have, oddly enough, somewhat lower than the DDO maximum treasure tables.

[Capstern]

5 would go a long way towards making me less concerned about the system

I still really profess that honestly a bound token reward if you DONT get raid loot combined with your #5 would be great.

The tokens being raid specific...and bound to your character.

They have proven to some degree that this works and people will do it - dragon scales anyone.

I would like to know that if there is no guarantee of raid item that I am expending my effort towards a goal that isnt totally random.

Come on graal.....any comment on this at all- would love to know what you guys are thinking.

Some people havent liked this....but most have seemed to really like it - most dont need or want an EASY button but something you can stack in the back and see you are making progress makes that virtual content seem more real.

back to MT comment

I do like all of the ideas. Now I am betting #2 will never be addressed...and I wish the Tor mission had some kind of end reward every time from Cydonie.

The rest are very good and valid - but I still assert that tokens would help keep everyone more interested for a longer time....heck really the scales revitalized the game for more than just running POP endlessly

[KaKa]

A wonderful compromise could be to allow the old raids with the exeption of the Reaver to keep the glyphs and just make the Lich and the SR use the new system.

[Asal]

I am ok with the new loot method.

I like idea number 1 with 3 and 4. I think they could be all could be implimented. I think it would make raiding more interesting.

[Cowdenicus]

2) Its not really possible to increase the treasure level. I really meant maximum when I said maximum, at least for the Stormreaver. The lower level raids have, oddly enough, somewhat lower than the DDO maximum treasure tables.

There has been a concern with the Titan on elite dropping level 10-12 loot, even though it is a level 14 raid.

[MysticTheurge]

2) Its not really possible to increase the treasure level. I really meant maximum when I said maximum, at least for the Stormreaver. The lower level raids have, oddly enough, somewhat lower than the DDO maximum treasure tables.

So... um... how do you pull off +1 loot level weekends?

Or are you saying that it's already under the effects of something like that?

[Graal]

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

[MysticTheurge]

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

Ah, see, that should make people a bit happier. So basically you've already done #2, we just didn't realize it.

Edit -- Ok, well now I have questions.

Are you saying that Stormreaver on normal (level 14 quest) has better treasure tables than an equivalent cr quest run on elite (what we'd all think of as level 16 tables such as you'd find in PotP Elite)? Does this go up as you increase the difficulty of the raid, such that Stormreaver Elite (level 16 quest) has better than level 18 tables?

[Gimpster]

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

I take it you are referring to the upcoming system, and not what live servers have now.

So does that mean the special chest in Titan Awakes elite (base CR 12 quest +2 =14) will be better than chests in Gianthold Tor normal (base CR 14)? Or will that also be better than Gianthold Tor elite?

[Alavatar]

I take it you are referring to the upcoming system, and not what live servers have now.

So does that mean the special chest in Titan Awakes normal (base CR 12 quest) will be better than chests in Gianthold Tor normal (base CR 12)? Or will that also be better than Gianthold Tor elite?

Gianthold Tor Normal is base L14 quest. Giant Caves Elite in Threnal are L12.