Collecting the Best Suggestions for Improving the New Raid Loot System

[MysticTheurge]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.) Also, potentially, require at least one raid completion in order to use items from that raid.

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.


5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

6) Reduce the raid timer to some shorter length of time.

7) Create special tables for non-raid loot from raid chests that excludes "junk modifiers" (i.e. "lesser" anything, stat/skill bonuses below a certain threshold, power V or less)

I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

[Cowdenicus]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.

(Weird, I feel like there was at least one other suggestion I noticed that I wanted to include here, but I can't remember what it was now.)

MT

there was also a suggestion of 1 guaranteed plus a roll on the others.

/oh and NINJA OP

[MysticTheurge]

there was also a suggestion of 1 guaranteed plus a roll on the others.

I just added a note about that one.

[Cowdenicus]

I just added a note about that one.

ok

[Elfvyra]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

[Cowdenicus]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

because the system is bad in its current form.

[MysticTheurge]

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

Well... um... I wasn't really whining. And I think I've been pretty clear as a strong supporter of the new system. But I think the things that are listed above could actually improve the game (not just the new raid system) pretty significantly. You know, it's sort of like how no one talks about a thing when it's just been the way it is forever, but once you put something on the table everyone's got some suggestions for how to improve it. It's sort of like that.

I was hoping to actually collect some of the best ideas that actually mesh with the new system in a place that was relatively free of the whole back and forth discussion and comments that did stuff like, say, accuse other people of whining when they're just trying to offer suggestions.

But you know, whatever.

[Riddikulus]

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

Alternatively, make the warded chest regular loot a couple rolls off the end reward table. That way you won't get "junk" like gems, gold, and repair kits.

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

I like this one although it may not be an easily doable one. More doable, although probably too unrestricted would be to make the items "bind on equip". That is a common item type that shouldn't be too difficult to implement (LOTRO does this).

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.

5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

Both very good suggestions.

[I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

You can do a minimum 1 item by just throwing away and rerolling any loot generation that results in no items. That would imply though that they do the rolls for everyone at the same time when the chest is open, not on a character by character basis.

[Paragon]

5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

This is a great idea. A possibility for easily implementing it would be to drop raid tokens rather than raid loot, each of which can be given to the quest giver for your choice from some number of randomly chosen pieces of loot.

This would, however, prevent reassigning loot you really don't need to someone else, but hopefully under such a system you would never need to do that.

[Auran82]

I have mentioned in a number of threads that at the end of the raid the systems rolls a 1D(number of people in raid) and that person gets an item and everyone else has the 1 in 6 chance of getting a raid item.

If this was put in, maybe even lower the chances of everyone else to 1 in 7 or 8 to make up for the fact that one item is guaranteed.

At least that way no matter how many people you have in the raid you are going to get at least one item.

[aheschel]

New raid systems seem a little over the top but to compromise how about we get rid of all the stupid prequests to get to the raid on the dragon and queen. Way to painful with the new system; once you complete the prequests (or maybe you have to complete them on elite) make it that you can just run the raid every three days. No von 1-5 or Wiz King grind. Those quests sadly do not make me happy anymore. It is like cutting the grass on a rainy day because I have run them so many times. Good compromise in my opinion and it will make everyone, power and casual gamers real happy turbine! Cats and dogs living together finally.

[Uska]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.


5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

6) Reduce the raid timer to some shorter length of time.

7) Create special tables for non-raid loot from raid chests that excludes "junk modifiers" (i.e. "lesser" anything, stat/skill bonuses below a certain threshold, power V or less)

I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

Sorry bind on account has got to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard of

[MysticTheurge]

Sorry bind on account has got to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard of

Care to explain why? We had a decent-sized discussion going on it in another thread and no one had anything negative to say about it.

What, exactly, would be the problem with Bind-to-Account?

[Cowdenicus]

Care to explain why? We had a decent-sized discussion going on it in another thread and no one had anything negative to say about it.

What, exactly, would be the problem with Bind-to-Account?

I like bind to account.

[DelScorcho]

I like bind to account.

Bind to account works for me, and would alleviate issues with having docents fall to a drow wizard with no WF in the party.

[Gimpster]

Bind to account works for me, and would alleviate issues with having docents fall to a drow wizard with no WF in the party.

The concept of "Bind To Account" is horribly against everything D&D stands for.

Uh uh. So my level 13 wizard gets Sword of Shadows bound to my account so that I can use it on a barbarian I MIGHT roll sometime in the future? Whatever.

D&D does not allow that kind of twinking- gaining magic items is part of how a character advances. A player cannot come in to a new campaign and tell the DM "I have this list of items waiting for me". Any DDO mechanic which restricts it is a good thing, and is more important the more overpowered the items in question are.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

MT, you make some very nice suggestions and I wouldn't be opposed to any of them. However, none of them resolves what I feel is the real problem with the new loot system. They still leave the possibility for A) nobody to get a raid item, AND B) those who don't get raid items are no closer to getting a raid item in the future. If they made either A or B untrue, then it would be perfect IMO.

[Rekker]

MT...you made no mention of the token option posted by several people.

Sorry Uska


Also...

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

The system is already up on Risia for testing, just not enough people on that server to show the results.

2) Its not really possible to increase the treasure level. I really meant maximum when I said maximum, at least for the Stormreaver. The lower level raids have, oddly enough, somewhat lower than the DDO maximum treasure tables.

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

So which way is it ???

The tables are "somewhat lower than" or "better than" an equivalent CR quest run on elite. Or do you just mean the Stormreaver raid and the others are the lower ones ???

I know I routinely get level 8 junk from the Titan and can't recall a single item out of the dragon but it is a lot lower level quest in comparison.

[MysticTheurge]

MT...you made no mention of the token option posted by several people.

As I mentioned in the intro, a token system is really an entirely different system and so doesn't fall within the scope of this post.

So which way is it ???

The tables are "somewhat lower than" or "better than" an equivalent CR quest run on elite. Or do you just mean the Stormreaver raid and the others are the lower ones ???

I believe he means that since the other raids are lower level quests to begin with their treasure tables are lower than the Stormreaver (and therefore lower than the "max possible table in DDO").

[Talson]

As I mentioned in the intro, a token system is really an entirely different system and so doesn't fall within the scope of this post.

Off topic:
I'd agree it's a different system but I was suggesting it as a method to off set the times that a guild or group raids and doesn't pull any raid loot. Put the proposed system in place but with the tokens added to avoid a situation where people feel like the raids are a waste of time.

Last nights raid would be a good example The guild had 16 people that wanted to run TF. So no one would feel left out we went as two seperate groups. In the current system there is going to be 2 items at the end for each group. In the new system the odds increase for not having raid loot drop for the party (rather than individual) because you were willing go with a smaller group so others didn't feel left out.

On topic:
Having raid loot not bind would be a nice way to prevent arguements over rolling for loot that was already reserved for a player. As we'd previously discussed.

The scaling odds based on difficulty level would be a good change... Giving the group the ability to somewhat offset the proposed change would lessen the sting of going and not seeing raid loot.

I'd hope to see better random loot drops from the warded chest than what was shown on risia. It sounded like the proposed change to loot in the warded chest was supposed to help offset the disapointment of not getting raid loot... Unfortunately it doesn't sound like this is likely.

"5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item."

This would be a great change to prevent situations were the items dropped were useless to the individual they were assinged to...

On the bright side it's nice to see the developers stopping by to see what our thoughts are....

Take it easy
-Tal