Collecting the Best Suggestions for Improving the New Raid Loot System

[KaKa]

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

Really? I find that hard to beleive http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...w_sr_blows.jpg

[Geriant]

Aren't they determining "on par" by using the level/GP value of the static items, though?

I don't believe so, no. For instance, you can get randomly generated items from the end of the Waterworks that are +2 to an individual stat that have no level restrictions. You won't get that from a quest the same level as the Waterworks. Sure, that's vendor trash at higher levels, but it's nice for a level 2 character. The static named items and the randomly generated bound loot at the end of quest chains tend to be a bit higher level than quests that are the same level. That's more or less the same as the named items in the warded chests for raids so I think a similar system could work.

The way the warded chests seem to be working now is just rolling on the maximum possible treasure table for the level of the quest. Seeing the screenshots of what people are getting from the warded chests on Risia, it doesn't appear to be the same as the static reward system and it doesn't appear that the items in the chest are bound like the named raid items are.

~G

[tekn0mage]

You forgot to add an item:

6) Reduce the raid timer window from 66 hours to 24 (or none at all)

This would allow people on weekends to have multiple runs and multiple chances of getting loot. Yes, you could solo-farm raid loot all day if you're resourceful enough. The chances however, are 88% in the house's favor that your solo run will mean nothing. Those are good enough odds I would say.

Face it, people DO raid for the loot, and even some people don't get a chance to raid that often. This new system should remove the penalty of raiding.

I think someone mentioned it earlier in this thread Graal.... what're you guys thinking??

[Aesop]

How about making Raid Treasure Tables that don't include the junk mods.

Anything that is "Lesser ____" is a Junk Mod

no Lesser Guards
no Lesser Resists
no Lesser Banes
no Lesser False Life

No 1 or 2% chance items

no stat mod item of less than +3
no Power item of less than 5 (or equivalent Wizardry)


you get the idea.

Aesop

[Paragon]

5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

This is a great idea. A possibility for easily implementing it would be to drop raid tokens rather than raid loot, each of which can be given to the quest giver for your choice from some number of randomly chosen pieces of loot.

This would, however, prevent reassigning loot you really don't need to someone else, but hopefully under such a system you would never need to do that.

[Auran82]

I have mentioned in a number of threads that at the end of the raid the systems rolls a 1D(number of people in raid) and that person gets an item and everyone else has the 1 in 6 chance of getting a raid item.

If this was put in, maybe even lower the chances of everyone else to 1 in 7 or 8 to make up for the fact that one item is guaranteed.

At least that way no matter how many people you have in the raid you are going to get at least one item.

[aheschel]

New raid systems seem a little over the top but to compromise how about we get rid of all the stupid prequests to get to the raid on the dragon and queen. Way to painful with the new system; once you complete the prequests (or maybe you have to complete them on elite) make it that you can just run the raid every three days. No von 1-5 or Wiz King grind. Those quests sadly do not make me happy anymore. It is like cutting the grass on a rainy day because I have run them so many times. Good compromise in my opinion and it will make everyone, power and casual gamers real happy turbine! Cats and dogs living together finally.

[Uska]

There've been a lot of good ideas on how to improve the new system that have been tossed around. I thought I'd collect some of them in a quick summary. If I've missed anything, point it out, but I do want to limit it to ideas that work within the context of the new system as opposed to ideas that completely alter it. So no "token systems," no "leave it the way it was," etc.

1) Increase the chance that raid loot will drop on Hard and Elite difficulties. Something like 1:6 for normal, 1:5 for Hard and 1:4 for Elite. (Yes, I know Graal already said he wants to do this one.)

2) Increase the "level" of the loot in the raid chest when you don't get raid loot. Let's be honest, "maximum level loot for the quest" isn't really worth the effort of a raid, especially since you can get more and better loot of the same level in other quests. Increasing the level of the raid loot chest by 1 or 2 would make a pretty significant difference (a la ML 14 weapons and armor out of Stormreaver Elite).

3) Make raid loot bind to account, instead of bind on acquire. This would make it so that the new system brings the raid loot more in line with all other chests. If it drops for you, it's yours, and you can pass it off to an alt if you want. (This adjustment would require that all raid loot get real and appropriate MLs to reduce/eliminate Raid Loot Twinking. The MLs should pretty much be at a level where you could theoretically go and actually be a help in completing the raid. Perhaps even at the level of the Raid Quest itself.)

4) Some kind of trading interface is required to allow for fair (and grief-free) reassignment of binding loot.


5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item.

6) Reduce the raid timer to some shorter length of time.

7) Create special tables for non-raid loot from raid chests that excludes "junk modifiers" (i.e. "lesser" anything, stat/skill bonuses below a certain threshold, power V or less)

I'm notably not including the following

- A requisite minimum number of raid loot items per chest, as this doesn't really work within the new system, but rather returns it to the old one with just an chance for more loot than ever.

Sorry bind on account has got to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard of

[JD2134]

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

Well from the screen shot i seen I rather see these raid chest be amazing rather then just better.

Cause right now those screen shot make the warded chest loot less then subpar then an equivalent cr quest

[Ramsildor]

Dear DEVS,

When are you folks going to get it? D&D Players are Power gamers, even in paper and Pencil we are. For all of the hoops that have to be jumped through to get to the actual raid itself, why put "Junk" in a chest at the end. Do you really think 4th level characters are doing a 14th level raid and are going to get excited by a Half plate of lesser fire resistance? LOL, that wouldn't cover the repair cost of my sword and other gear.

Keep things at minimum of +3 or better, nothing less than Improved...NO Material Components, NO repair kits or Heal kits...you should have enough favor to cover this by now, ONLY scrolls that are now not purchaseable in the Vendors Stores.

I will give you a better idea. How about a Sigil that is made up of pieces from Multiple raids. It binds to you so no trading. the sigil is made up say 4 pieces so it is something you build over the life of your character and say by the current Giant hold raid you could buy yourself something nice or unique or even unbind a loot item or something of that sort.

BTW you need more Tempest Spine type raids, with the only prereq being you are breathing...they build Guild unity and allow many players to get together and meet new people. They are also good training grounds for more difficult raids to come

Do you guys EVER read this stuff?

[Knightrose]

Perhaps some of you have never played the pen and paper version of D&D which this game is based off of.

It's perfectly possible to get 'less then desireable' loot, even in higher CR encounters.

The fact that we are so spoiled already is proof (I think) that Turbine has buffed their treasure tables. Certainly when they say 'max' treasure table it means you're getting your best chance at something good or at the very least expensive.

Learn to be a bit more appreciative. It's selfish to think you're the 'only' person not getting the best loot. It's all chance and one random screenshot should not persuade you so easily. Have some mental DR.

[Riggs]

Re above,

Sure....but after you get random treasure - you go sell it, and find a magic shop and buy something on the list you WANT. Unless your DM is being cheap any larger city will have magic availabale to sell.

I would be overjoyed to be able to custom order magic items. Be able to buy a weapon or trinket or hat with the enhancements I want, and nothing else.

That system isnt in DDO yet, so the only place you can get better than random items are in static rewards and raid items.

I like the idea of bind to account because I hate raiding and would like to just run one or 2 guys through and not have to flag and raid with all my characters. But that means that people will cheeze it and go bonkers on one guy for all the raids, then once they have the items they want - started a new character and load him up with raid gear at level 1 for him to use whenever he gets leveled up. It would be abused a lot. (But I would still enjoy it heh).

Higher percentage drops than 1 in 6 - which is anywhere from half to 6 times less than what the ods are now depending on your group size. (A two person group now has a 100% chance of one raid item each)

Also - better caster and cleric items. Most clerics do not have a reason to raid other than 1 or two items, most of the good items are for melee (which is good for a melee cleric also maybe). Bows, raipers/finesse, clerics do not have many choices. Give clerics a reason to want to raid.

A lot of people hate the idea of a token system. But knowing you will get an option to pick something after say 5 runs would sure mke the grind more enjoyable. Spending hours on raids to once again get zip can be pretty discouraging (Thats kind of like an NPC giving you a quest, then deciding at the end to not give you anything for it).

[Knightrose]

I really think comparing a loot system in DDO to 'what a DM would do' is a terrible comparison.

There is no limit but the imagination in what a DM could/would do. Everyone here who's ever played P&P know exactly how different each house of players runs the rules, their characters, their realms and their loot.

DDO doesn't have that level of freedom. We don't have 24/7 DM teams monitoring and adjudicating thousands of online players. They require a simple, standard and rewarding system in order to attempt (not fully succeed) at pleasing everyone.

Some players are good at raids some have yet to learn them as well. It's a matter of practice and earned reward. Not immediate gain simply for showing up or waiting in line. I don't think the loot system in DDO or any MMO should be like a line at Six Flags.

If you want to achieve more raid loot, become better at the raids and/or run them faster with higher success rates; you need to enterprise your friends list, your guild connections and your personal skill. Asking to be better rewarded for any other reasons than those I think is asking too much. It would likely spoil you and drain your interest in ever repeating or challenging other content.

[MysticTheurge]

Sorry bind on account has got to be one of the worst ideas I have ever heard of

Care to explain why? We had a decent-sized discussion going on it in another thread and no one had anything negative to say about it.

What, exactly, would be the problem with Bind-to-Account?

[Cowdenicus]

Care to explain why? We had a decent-sized discussion going on it in another thread and no one had anything negative to say about it.

What, exactly, would be the problem with Bind-to-Account?

I like bind to account.

[Stanley_Nicholas]

MT, you make some very nice suggestions and I wouldn't be opposed to any of them. However, none of them resolves what I feel is the real problem with the new loot system. They still leave the possibility for A) nobody to get a raid item, AND B) those who don't get raid items are no closer to getting a raid item in the future. If they made either A or B untrue, then it would be perfect IMO.

[Rekker]

MT...you made no mention of the token option posted by several people.

Sorry Uska


Also...

Here's my suggestion. Why don't we just wait and see how it actually works before we whine about it or try and change it?

The system is already up on Risia for testing, just not enough people on that server to show the results.

2) Its not really possible to increase the treasure level. I really meant maximum when I said maximum, at least for the Stormreaver. The lower level raids have, oddly enough, somewhat lower than the DDO maximum treasure tables.

The treasure tables in a raid chest are better than an equivalent CR quest run on Elite.

So which way is it ???

The tables are "somewhat lower than" or "better than" an equivalent CR quest run on elite. Or do you just mean the Stormreaver raid and the others are the lower ones ???

I know I routinely get level 8 junk from the Titan and can't recall a single item out of the dragon but it is a lot lower level quest in comparison.

[MysticTheurge]

MT...you made no mention of the token option posted by several people.

As I mentioned in the intro, a token system is really an entirely different system and so doesn't fall within the scope of this post.

So which way is it ???

The tables are "somewhat lower than" or "better than" an equivalent CR quest run on elite. Or do you just mean the Stormreaver raid and the others are the lower ones ???

I believe he means that since the other raids are lower level quests to begin with their treasure tables are lower than the Stormreaver (and therefore lower than the "max possible table in DDO").

[DelScorcho]

I like bind to account.

Bind to account works for me, and would alleviate issues with having docents fall to a drow wizard with no WF in the party.

[Talson]

As I mentioned in the intro, a token system is really an entirely different system and so doesn't fall within the scope of this post.

Off topic:
I'd agree it's a different system but I was suggesting it as a method to off set the times that a guild or group raids and doesn't pull any raid loot. Put the proposed system in place but with the tokens added to avoid a situation where people feel like the raids are a waste of time.

Last nights raid would be a good example The guild had 16 people that wanted to run TF. So no one would feel left out we went as two seperate groups. In the current system there is going to be 2 items at the end for each group. In the new system the odds increase for not having raid loot drop for the party (rather than individual) because you were willing go with a smaller group so others didn't feel left out.

On topic:
Having raid loot not bind would be a nice way to prevent arguements over rolling for loot that was already reserved for a player. As we'd previously discussed.

The scaling odds based on difficulty level would be a good change... Giving the group the ability to somewhat offset the proposed change would lessen the sting of going and not seeing raid loot.

I'd hope to see better random loot drops from the warded chest than what was shown on risia. It sounded like the proposed change to loot in the warded chest was supposed to help offset the disapointment of not getting raid loot... Unfortunately it doesn't sound like this is likely.

"5) When someone does receive raid loot in their chest, give them a choice between 2 (or more) of the items on the list (randomly determined, no freaking duplicates ) instead of only giving them one, single, pre-determined item."

This would be a great change to prevent situations were the items dropped were useless to the individual they were assinged to...

On the bright side it's nice to see the developers stopping by to see what our thoughts are....

Take it easy
-Tal