Titania the Silk Artemis: A dex trapsmith high saves build

[spifflove]

I am rebuilding Titania for about the 5th time, trying to come up with a build that I am happy with. The purpose of posting this admittingly unoriginal build is to get feedback that all my premises are correct and I am not gimping myself. So here it is:

Race Drow [Because of cheaper stat buy and ability to finese short swords]

11 Ranger/2 Paladin/1 Rogue

Stats:
Str 13 [+5 item = 18]
Dex 18 [+2 elf +2 tome +3 Ranger +3 levels +4 item = 34]
Con 7 [+5 item =12]
Int 16
Wis 9 [+5 item =14]
Char 15 [+5 item =20]

Feats:
Level 1 : UMD
Level 3: Weapon Finesse
Level 6: Percision [*edited leaning toward power attack vs damage reduction]
Level 9: Improved critical piercing
Level 12: Improved critical ranged

Skillz: Max ranks in DD, UMD, Search, Spot, {edit: max OL}, Jump

Notes:
1. The reason for drow and not elf is that although elf enhancements for ranged are superior, the drow gets enhancements for rapier and shortsword. This means that the off hand finesse will also get racial bonuses.
2. Although there is a nerf to stat damaging, puncturing will still work on damage reduction mobs
3. Regading wisdom: 9 is low but that is all I can afford without gimping strength. The plus 3 wis item I have will tide me over until I have a plus 5 item, but Im not sure what will happen in regards to level 5 spells if those are ever available and if rangers even get level 5 spells.
4. Regarding con: All I can afford. If I take too much damage I will tumble away and range.
5. Regarding Char: the most I can afford, giving me boosts to saves, ranger pets, and UMD.
6. Regarding Itelligence: Critical for rogue skills and point buying.
7. Regarding Strength: Most I can afford. I already have a strength ranger who was just nerfed in the barbarian enhancement department. Now I have an extra level of barbarian I neither want or need.

Experienced rangers please comment or even flame

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Posted by Gangwulf: Spiff,

I think a 13 ranger / 1 rogue 32 build elf could get almost equal saves / skills as this build, with MUCH better enhancmenets, mana, hp and spell levels.

You would lose a tiny bit of UMD, but still.

Also, your Str is way too high. You can actually dump stat it.

You're going to do like 5 damage a hit with precision on. Your str is totally irrelevant.

Not every build needs 2 Pally levels to get good saves, Spiff.

Gang

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posted by Valse:

Spiff,

I just hit lvl 12 with my version of what you are planning. Niteshade is 1 rogue/2 pally/9 ranger (rest Ranger after caps). I have had nothing but fun with this build. At lvl 12 I have spot, search, disbale and umd all maxed and open lock has about 8 ranks in it ( with dex I can still open Chains elite Chests with a +10 open lock item) Umd sits at a 23 unbuffed. I went a tad different on stats.
11 str
18 dex
9 con
14 int
10 wis (?)
15 Cha

Currently I have at 12

16 str
32 dex
14 con
20 int
12 wis
22 cha

saves with a +3 resistance item are 21 Fort/28reflex/13 will (+2 for being elf so actually 15)

Evasion was a pain to wait for since I didn't ge it until lvl 12 but the wait was worth it not to splash a extra rogue lvl. I really thought about taking another pally lvl at 13 or 14 for the fear immun and diease immun, but I want precise shot and improved precise shot more. This build went full ranged with shot on the run and improved crit range.

If any questions give me a yell or if your on Adar shoot me a /tell.

[spifflove]

What Valse says above sounds pretty good. What Gangwulf says is not very accurate...

Start with INT 12 or 14 and CHA 14. The extra points spent to get those higher is not worth it for your build.

Start with at least CON 11 and WIS 10. WIS 11 is useful as a Tome +1 brings you to 12 and then no +WIS item is needed to cast Barkskin.

Hit Points and Fort saves (especially) do matter. So don't gimp them. A paladin or ranger is the ideal character to get the aggro from dangerous spell-using creatures. Need Hit Points & Saves to best survive the retaliation.

Avoid taking Precision as long as possible. You certainly will not need it before 6th level, and possibly never.

Perhaps the most important advice: Don't try to be "good at everything" a rogue, paladin and ranger can do, all on the same character. you will have to pick some themes and focus on them. Based on your feats, it looks like a combat build that alternates between ranged and then burst-critical weapons or special-ability weapons.

You will have good saves and a fairly useful rogue skill-mix, at least for the low and middle levels. At higher levels you would have to invest a lot into enhancements just to be able to Spot and Search the more difficult traps. Having a 16 INT vs a 14 is not often going to make the difference. You want to have skills in the +30s, self-buffed, if you have any intention of being an elite trapsmith. You'll also need Reflex around +28. More dedicated Rogues can use the Uncanny Dodge boost & Improved Evasion to survive the deadliest of traps to get to the trap box. You won't have that.

Decent Strength, so you will not be lacking for damage, but as Gangwulfe says, if you have Precision ON, the damage benefits of STR are severely diminished. Having some extra STR is not worth crippling your Fort & Will Saves though.

If you decide to go with low-average WIS, don't be the type of warrior that expects others to Remove Curse on you, as it will happen a Lot! Bring lots of Remove Curse potions. Buy the Elven Enchantment Resistance & Spell Resistance enhancements for low level, to survive Hold Person better. You can get rid of it later.

[spifflove]

If you were going to go elf, I would highly recommend dropping Dex down at 18. Basically you need EVERY attribute for this skill, so you aren't gonna be wanting to spend max points in dex, when an 18 will give you 1 less reflex, and 1 less to hit, which can be made up by the elven bow enhancements, and with paladin I don't think that your saves will be a problem. I would recommend something like this.

Elf

Str - 10 (+4 item, gets you to 14, plenty for a ranger) 14
Dex - 18 (+4 item, 3 from levels, 5 enhancements) 30
Con - 11 (This is where a lot of rangers lack... if you have a +5 con item, I would go with 11) 16
Int - 15 (if you have an intel tome that is great, if you don't, might want to consider 16 int[drop maybe con?]) 20
Wis - 10 (+4 item gets you access to the level 4 spells, and a BAM helm gets you access to level 2 and under spells, which is what you will have for a majority of the time)
Cha - 13 (+1 enhancement, +4 item, your at 18)

So your ending are gonna look like this.

Str - 14
Dex - 30
Con - 16
Int - 20
Wis - 12 (14?)
Cha - 18

Very strong for a MC ranger, you will have some good skill points, and DD/search, etc. Also might want to consider ditching WF: Pierce and grabbing a SF:UMD/DD/Search or something along those lines

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Spiff

How about for a 13 / 1 elf you go

10, 18, 12, 14, 14, 10

Modified with chinky high level gear,

16, 34, 18, 14, 20, 16

1 less damage -- yes the difference in damage it TOTALLY irrelevant.
same dex
a lot more hp
almost the same skills (the difference in 2 ranger levels over the pal levels makes up for the 1 less point a level)
a lot more mana, and spell levels / spells
2 less UMD

You get better enchantments.
You can cast much better
Your Reflex save is capped at 30 either way, so thats a wash.
Your fort and will get almost all of the + 5 you lost back by haveing a much higher con and wisdom, not to mention you can get elf enhancments to make it higher.

The basic aura does not matter, because just about everyone has one theese days.

The point is Spiff, it might not be as absolutely perfect as the first build, but it shines in other ways.

I think the extra HP and Mana and better enchantments more than make up for the tiny loss of saves and damage.

And most importantly, it does not need to take the 2 Pally levels like every other single build you see out there.



Gang