The problem with raid loot is not short manning raids, it is

[Gimpster]

No Titan wasnt beatable because of gimmick as I recall.

The titan was unbeatable for two reasons, one of them directly related to the gimmick.

First, his damage output was too high, especially in comparison to level 10 characters without 28 point builds, constitution tomes, or +5 con items. He casts energy balls in blasts of 3, and it only took an average of 2 balls to kill any single player character, except for the most extremely hitpoint-specced. The nerfed titan had his damage cut down so that a typical level 10 cleric could expect to survive splash damage from 3 shots in a row.

Second, the lasers and pillars required stringent accuracy. When the Titan was originally released, you could drop a pillar right through him and he wouldn't fall down. But if he did fall down, you could shoot a laser right through him and nothing would happen. In the nerfed version, the collision area for the Titan has been hugely expanded, so you only need to get the pillar or laser in the same general neighborhood for it to count as a hit.

PS. I will note that the originally released Titan could have been reliably beaten by a 10+ man raid of level 11 characters, if the level cap hadn't been 10 at that time.

[studentx]

Gimmicks are often good for gameplay, in moderation of course. But the developers should not use gimmicks in the encounter design and then ignore it when assigning the loot system, pretending as if the second half of a raid group were anywhere near as valuable as the first.

Interesting comment. In fact I would say that a raid that strips all off your equipped items and shunts them to your inventory and only allows you to equip the objects found within the raid should greatly increase the difficult of the raid and it puts most players within the raid on a level playing field. That should give everyone a challenge.

[Cowdenicus]

Interesting comment. In fact I would say that a raid that strips all off your equipped items and shunts them to your inventory and only allows you to equip the objects found within the raid should greatly increase the difficult of the raid and it puts most players within the raid on a level playing field. That should give everyone a challenge.

and make everything you have done up to that point in the game absolutely worthless, uhm NO.

There is no "level playing field," earn it.

[Gimpster]

and make everything you have done up to that point in the game absolutely worthless, uhm NO.

No it wouldn't. Your feats, tomes, and spells would still apply.

It is entirely reasonable to do a special "no equipment" quest as a rare certain event. Make it like Prison of the Mind, where your characters are just mental projections and the only weapons you can use are formed by concentrating on the background of the demiplane.

That would shift the balance of power between the classes, which is fine once in a while.

[Cowdenicus]

No it wouldn't. Your feats, tomes, and spells would still apply.

It is entirely reasonable to do a special "no equipment" quest as a rare certain event. Make it like Prison of the Mind, where your characters are just mental projections and the only weapons you can use are formed by concentrating on the background of the demiplane.

That would shift the balance of power between the classes, which is fine once in a while.

for a quest, yes, a raid no. unless Turbine decides to make multiple (think around 5 here) raids per level raising mod.

[barecm]

It is more than just raids, it is content in general.

This game has huge potential. If there was only enough content to support an active player base it would be up there with WoW on subscriptions. If Turbine wants to run with the big boys, they need to get off the porch already. Here is a good piece of advise for Turbine... You get out of something what you put into it. If you do not develop enough content, you will not attract new players nor stop current ones from leaving.

[studentx]

and make everything you have done up to that point in the game absolutely worthless, uhm NO.

There is no "level playing field," earn it.

Earn it, oh I do. There is a point when I get bored vorpaling or paralyzing the mobs on the way to the boss fight. (In fact running dirt poor on a new server has been the biggest challenge to DDO that I've experienced in a looong time.) There is a point when you've run short on new tactics of kiting or stacknpack or hop down or hit and run or dodge and shoot. In fact most demands to make the AI smarter really takes a crafty programmer or person running the boss and minions. Until that happens raids aren't likely to get much more sophisticated and thus certain items poping in raids that have to be used are about the only way to put a challenge back in.

Too much icing on cake and all that .

[KaKa]

The severe lack of raid progression in this game.

Seriously we have what, 5 raids in this game (if you count Tempest Spine which is a stretch anyways).

There is no progression to the raids. Heck Everquest 2 had more raids than that, on release, under the level cap. No to include the 14 some odd raids they had at level cap.

There is absolutely nothing to do other than "reroll" at level cap, or make alts.

What this game needs is about 5 raids at the level cap every single time the cap raises.

Make one of the raids a couple hour raid, (not the preraid quest) with MULTIPLE final level bosses, have multiple Warded chests and have a progression between the raids. Both to unlock the raids and gear/items dependent on the raids.

Also instead of gimmicks if you put in just very difficult bosses, and (small) armies of minions, it could go alot further.

Turbine, please add depth to my playing experience.

Raid progression like this is exactly why I hate games like EQ and WoW. I don't want Item A from Boss A in order to kill Boss B so I can get item B to kill Boss C. That is really really stupid and I hate EQ and WoW for doing it. Lets not copy them and make their mistakes.

[Capstern]

Here is a raid idea I worked on that well would be very difficult to short man and would meet a lot of the criteria we are all wanting - hard as heck and challenge and requires planning

Stand Alone Raid for level 12-14 (or adjusted as Turbine would like) 

The Conclave

Note:
OK this is all written very generally as a concept and a game plan for a very cool raid that would be challenging indeed. I have tried to put things in that I think would make for a sharp right hand turn from what people would normally expect at point in a mission. I tried to put things in that will frustrate people but in that good “oh **** that’s a challenge” way. I for now since I don’t know if the devs even read this or care to use ideas but I figure if they do cool and they can hammer out the maps and mob details 

I wrote this about 3 months ago and like I said is just sort of generalized for the sake of well I am not a dev I dont want to spend all that time since I cant make it happen

House D has recruited you to help them with a problem.

Rumor has it that a gathering of evil casters from the various races of Ebberon have gathered at a mountain stronghold and are planning some horrible ritual.

The house D agent informs you that this Conclave of Casters seems to include almost all the evil races and it appears that they are planning to pool their magic for one massive summoning/resurrection spell. The information House D has is that this ritual will summon the spirit of Shalalur the Arch Mage a Giant and one of the most powerful arch magi to ever walk Eberron.

It is said he was destroyed trying to tap into the very source of magic in an insane effort to elevate himself to the level of Godhood. In he grasp for power the most powerful caster of all time was believed destroyed utterly, body and soul.

It appears the casters thing they can bring forth his spirit in a blood ritual and provide him a body. They will then turn to him to lead them in the destruction of Stormreach and the conquest of all of Eberron. It is feared that in this summoned and reborn state that Shalalur will be nigh unstoppable.

House D has enlisted Kurvic the Hound to drop you on a beach below the fortress that the Conclave has taken over for their ritual. It is believed that there is a cave near the beach that will allow access to the bowels of the fortress and thus your access to the top of the fortress where the ritual is to take place soon.


The Beach:
You are dropped on a beach near a cliff face. – Basic outdoor adventure area like redwillow.

Encounters:
Random filler stuff
Scorpion Encounter: Sand scorpions attack en masse
Hobgoblin Guards: Camped Near the Entrance to the cave several casters archers and warriors
Backed up by a few gargoyles sitting above the entrance

Egress: Cave entrance is shielded by the casters – its up til they die
Random Boss/Chest: Lothgar The Fearsome (chest low level compared to adventure)


The Caves:
The caves remind me of the Threnal caves – sprawling caverns
The adventurers are seeking the ladder to the next level up

Encounters:
Random filler stuff
Old Armory – there is a old hidden armory that the group comes across. Lots and lots of rust monsters – Possible Boss spawn Devourer – a huge rust monster that has gorged itself on the armory. Possible named chest item: Rustolieum – +1 crystal sickle dura 100 hardness 15 – aberration bane

Pitfall – dank wet cavern area – has to pass through this area to get to the ladder area. Floor falls out to a pit that’s to far to jump across. There looks to be a ladder than can be dropped by a switch in the pit. The pit is FULL of oozes and slimes of all types (the fire proof kind). You have to drop in and lay the smack down. The lever won’t budge till all the ooze and slime is dead.

The Ladder:
Its guarded by either Trolls or Hobgoblins – (random each time) depending on who is on shift.
Good mass of casters, clerics and warriors protecting the ladder that goes up
Possible Boss/Chest Spawn (one or the other or none but never both)
Hobgoblin Boss (chest): Arthgarr Bonegrinder (cleric) – possible named item – Bonegrinder - +2 Heavy Mace 1d6 acid damage per hit and dc17 check on crit or opponent is knocked down
Troll Boss (chest): Thunderfist (caster nasty sound bursts boosted and electrical attacks) – possible named item Thunderstaff – +2 quarter staff 1d6 sonic damage per hit and dc 17 check on crit for 6 second stun – chain lightning 3/day caster level 10 -2 con when equipped

Optional:
The Pen:
Apparently the other evil races don’t respect kobolds that much and has a huge group of them penned up in this area. When you enter they all attack – there is LOTS of them - I see this as a sea of kobolds that just goes on and on...but a good reward if you can stand killing all of them


The Caves Level 2

On this level you are looking for the portal to the crypts below the fortress. The portal moves daily and will be in one of 4 areas

Lots of traps here

Encounters:
Spider Haven: tunnel area that is full of big nasty spiders.
Underground Swap: Area of caves that are very wet and dank – full of lizard men warriors and casters
Drippy room: this area is rife with wetness and dripping ichor. – lots of oozes and maybe we can see the addition of green slime you get hit you get disease and loose con and str until its healed. Possible Boss/Chest spawn: Sewage – Gelatinous Cube - Possible named Item: MuckDestruction – great club – crystal – acid and ooze bane

Portal Room:
Portal will appear after all mobs are dead.
Static Boss: Beholder – Mirackan – he is surrounded by drow casters and blackguard
Static Chest

Optional: Find the source of the dampness and destroy it (broken fountain)


Crypts

This will be a level of crypts similar to the catacombs but nastier.
Lots of traps
Here you are looking for the ladder up to the fortress cellar

Scattered undead everywhere with a high percentage of arcnes

Ladder Room:
Static Boss: Fire Proof Arcane Skeleton and is surrounded by Blackbone Archers with unholy arrows and warriors
Static Chest

Optional: Destroy all sarcophagi


Cellar

This area is full of breakables – lots and lots of breakables.
This have been converted from a regular proper cellar to a construct playground that the casters have been experimenting with.

Clay Golems, Baked Clay Golems, Iron Golems, and Hardened Iron Golems. There are quite a few WF warriors and casters running around.

The door to the courtyard is locked and you have to find the key – the WF hid it in one of the breakables.

Possible Boss/Chest: Indomitable - Adamantine Golem
Possible Named Chest Item: Thunderstruck: +1 Adamantine Thundering Greatsword of Construct Bane

Optional: break all the breakables


Courtyard
This is the warrior training ground. As great as they are the casters know they need some meatbags around just incase. This is where all the warriors of the different casters races have congregated and are sparring and brawling as warriors are want to do.

This is a massive open square. Across the way is a door shrouded by a force barrier and in 3 corners of the courtyard are a rune and in one corner a level. Cha rune, int rune and wis rune with a str lever. All require a 22 min stat.

Once you zone in all the mobs com charging:

In the courtyard there are Trolls, Minotaur, Hobgoblins, Kobolds, Elves, and Dorfs. These warriors charge in and try to swarm the team. There is a wall around the courtyard and up on it as archers and casters. There is a ramp up to the parapet.

Once all the runes and levers are pulled together the barrier goes down allowing access to the lower keep.

Optional: Destroy the summoning Pits


Lower Keep – The Chaos Level (not sure I like the mob theme for this level ideas welcome)
This level has been taken over by the chaos casters. The hallways are punctured with what looks like teeth and chaos balls roam the hallways. Thrakk hounds and warriors and casters of chaos are also abundant.

The floor plan is a maze. I envision having this instance have 4-6 versions of the map that can load randomly. The party has to work their way through the maze and traps in the maze that also move per load. To the final area and a Locked door.

Static Boss/Chest: Tempest - Drow Sorc. He is surrounded by his minions
His death drops a key to the door.


Upper Keep – The Summoning Level
This level is full of flensers, reavers, Fire, Earth and Air elementals. It will also have mephitis and various summoned creatures. This is where the casters summon their elemental minions and practice their control over them.

The last room is where you access the roof where the ritual is happening.
You need to kill the final boss to open the portal.

Static Boss/Chest: Rizxor – Dark Dorf Master Summoner Cleric – have him start summoning mobs and his little support guys casting spells and the black guard’s melee


The Roof

You portal in and you land in a square room with a large archway to the open roof and summoning platform.

Just outside the archway is a beholder.
Possible Boss/Chest Spawn: Named Beholder - Murgchakk

Beyond the beholder you see the gathered evil conclave performing the ritual. You can see the ghostly shape of a giant forming in the center of the platform. Magic crackles in the air.

Once the beholder activates the conclave will notice you and try to destroy you so they can finish the ritual.

There are clerics and arcanes from each of the following races (in a large number):
Hobgoblin Clerics
Troll Shamans
Lizard Shamans
Minotaur Shamans
Drow Scorpions
Elf Casters
Dorf Clerics
Giant Shamans

Once all the mobs are dead the ritual stops and lightning and thunder shake the ground as the spell fades and you hear the voice of Shalalur. “My minions have failed me but I shall destroy you for your interference.

You realize that Shalalur may not have been fully resurrected but he is present in some kind of ghostly form.

Shalalur is incorporeal but still a powerful caster and will start attacking the part with spells.
Once Shalalur is dead the 3 remaining chests will spawn.



Well there you go. Its big sprawling and to me could be a dang lot of fun.

[Capstern]

And here is one more large running around battle that would be fun. Posted this before as well but cant find a link


Gateway to the Desert Lvl level 14 normal

Here is a concept I have for a Tempest Spine style one off raid mission.
I have tried to take some of the fun stuff that I enjoy from the game and combine it with stuff I have seen people post.

You talk to the caravan lady and she would have a new choice called Gateway to the Desert. One her way to the Zawabi refuge there is a low pass that is guarded by a large fort/keep. The Baron Derk D’Phiarlain is begging for help and reinforcements from Stormcleave to help him defend his pass. He is afraid that he is about to be overrun from some forces in the desert and if they over run his fortress they will have a free shot down into Stormcleave.

She offers to drop you off at the base of this path on her way to the desert.

If you accept the mission (a RAID) you are dropped off in a forested area that leads down into a canyon and heads off towards the desert.

I wont get to detailed and will be general. With this but:
Along your path to the fortress you will run into random mobs. Along the main path will be two branching paths that lead down narrower canyons. One ends in a large box canyon that has an encampment of goblins and ogres. They are guarding a cave. There would be a boss and a goodly number of baddies. Once you kill them all you get a chest that delocks (minor chest) and you get a key from the boss that opens the door on the cave. Inside you find and collect 10 mage-fire crystals – keep these.

The other canyon leads to a cave inside lots of knolls and some undead and trolls. In here you have various traps and rooms you have to clear. In the various parts you collect explosives and go tot eh last room and fight the boss. They are working to burrow under the pass to bypass the fortress. You kill the boss and use the “device” there with the explosives to set off an explosion. Once you set it a time counts down from :30 and you have to run out and escape before the blast.

You proceed up to the back wall of the fortress and the massive gates. There is a mage here maintaining the magical barrier reinforcing the gates. You talk to him and he asks if you have destroyed the knoll leader and blew up the cavern and you tell him yes and he will say you smell like explosives and drop the barrier and hurries you into the fort.

Inside the fort you see a large wall arching in front of you bridging this narrow place in the canyon. There are two ramps up to the ramparts that are currently blocked (gate or guards whatever) they tell you to talk to the baron.

In the corner of the courtyard are 2 shrines. In the center is a large square keep with a door and two mage-fire canons sitting on either side of the keep.


In the keep you find a kitchen, temple (shrine in here), armory, dining hall, the Baron’s war room and his vault. Also stairs up to the roof and down to the basement/dungeon – these are locked and cant be picked or knocked.

Before the mission starts and once the mission is over the keep becomes “tavern like and allows regeneration” the armory allows repair and sale of weapons and armor and the kitchen allows you to buy drink and food.

You come into the Baron’s presence and talk to him. He tells you that there is a massive army forming outside his walls and he needs your help defending the walls and driving them away.

If you do this and are successful he will reward you with treasure from his vault. Some of it very new and shiny and some of it ancient. You can see through a blue barrier where barrier where 2 large chests sit.

Once anyone in the party accepts the mission the “tavern like properties” of the place stop and the vendors won’t talk to you. The lock on the stairway up to the roof disengages and party members can go to the roof. A timer starts of 1:00. A voice over tells you the army appears to be advancing on the fortress.

Everyone has 1 minute to get into place. The voice over tells you to not let the enemy into the fortress but if they get in you can not allow them to destroy the front gate of the fortress or all is lost. They cant break it from the outside due to a enchantment placed on the gate but its vulnerable from the inside. If they chop it down all is lost. The gate is flammable and a fire wall or fireball too close to the gate could damage it.

As you take your place on the walls or the roof of the keep (good for rangers) and the 1:00 ends you see magical ramps appear against the wall. (random placement each time) and the enemies start charging up the ramps. Scorpions, undead, knolls and some mephit types maybe (monster types option but seems should be like desert). The assault begins and there would be a certain number of mobs that have to be killed to “repel” the first wave.

Mage-fire cannons. These can be fired by a person with a mage-fire crystal double clicking the cannon. The cannons will fire over the wall and land among the charging mobs. When you double click the cannon you can select low, med or high trajectory. This will determine where among the enemy the blast will hit. Low will send the blast right at your own main gate so be careful. The other arcs will hit the same place out beyond the wall and a spotter on the keep roof could tell you when to fire to hit mobs.

After the wave is wiped all gets quiet. Then the voice over says “they are breaking through the walls in the dungeon sappers are breaking our defenses.” The door to the stairs down unlocks. You have a short time for some of the party to get to the basement where the invaders are breaching (not all the party as random mobs will still straggle onto the ramps and into the keep if you aren’t careful. At the end of that time the wall explodes and the enemies come pouring into the dungeon. As you start down you hear the baron say “Oh I forgot to warn you that the traps down there are old and I forgot to deactivate them good luck.”

The team runs down to the dungeon and have to find the 2 points (out of possible 4 – random) that the enemy has broken through. Fight them until you kill the correct amount. If any enemy reaches the dinning room they try to go attack the baron and if he dies you fail.

After you wipe out the mobs (random range of mobs) you hear a warning – “The enemy is doing something big report to the gates immediately.

After a short period the gate explodes in a blast of magical energy from the enemy. You have to defend the breached gate until the wave of invaders is destroyed. If the enemy breaches the back gate you fail.

After the wave is cleared these enemies all that is left is to charge out and destroy the enemy boss (some kind of nice high cr25-30 boss a super gnoll maybe) He will be waiting for you at his camp a little ways from the gate with some nasty casters and some grunts but you go and wipe him out. You get 2 chests. Possible special named items (nothing crazy)

Report back to the baron and he lets you in the treasure room. You get 2 chests. A chance for special named rare items.

[Bloodmech]

Personally I think the quests are too...espeanoge based, think about it Mod 1 you are infiltrateing a super sucuarty vault with a team of crack comandos.Mod2=sabatogeing a WF foundry, Mod3= Assasanateing a Queen Mod 5 Disableing a bomb...(lame)
The raid I want to see is a traditional army vs army fight on a wide battlefield ware you ar part of an army.Obviously much stronger than the rest of the army. But not to the point ware your allys are useless.Chests warded and nonwarded are in caravans (that you destroy) and Outpoasts (that you assalt) Thare Could be a Raid boss that is an optionlal but he holds great rewards if beaten. The true goal could be lowering enamy forces and routing them, or capturing thair hq, or killing enough officers...however after you claim victory you could chace down the retreating forces. gaining more loot and xp...In short I want a huge, emencely lucritive war,with maltipall warded chests.