Maximum Level Loot = Junk, SCRAP raid loot idea

[HumanRogue]

[QUOTE=KristovK;1280133]Now...in DDO, your time is worth..well...jack squat.QUOTE]

Sorry, you lost me there KristovK... I know that I don't pay by the hour, but my DDO time IS valuable because it is LIMITED. I'd consider myself to be a casual player (10 hours/week) and as such don't have time (or the desire) to wait around for a PUG raid group to fill up. I watched a PUG raid group wait around for 45 minuted before it disappeared off the LFM screen. When I get on to raid, I don't have enough time to wait 45 minutes to get started because then, just over an hour into the Twighlight Forge, I'd probably have to leave the group to log. And, seeing as how, even when 'less experienced' players are decent players and do a good job (which is probably most of them) it just takes too long for me with my limited amount of play time.

Does it make me an elitist if I don't bring less experienced people along with me when I raid? I don't think so. I don't bring less experienced people along with me because its been my experience that it makes everything take longer and I don't consider my DDO time to be worth 'jack-squat'.

[Xalted_Vol]

God I hope they change the loot tables it would blow if thats the junk were gonna pull.

[TechNoFear]

Also consider the curent raid loot system when there is a level cap raise.

A 16th or higher could carry just about anyone to the warded DQ chest and give them two pieces of raid loot, over and over again.

Would be come common for duos (one capped, one lowbie ->swap) to farm the raid loot from the lower level raids.

[KristovK]

[QUOTE=HumanRogue;1280633]

Now...in DDO, your time is worth..well...jack squat.QUOTE]

Sorry, you lost me there KristovK... I know that I don't pay by the hour, but my DDO time IS valuable because it is LIMITED. I'd consider myself to be a casual player (10 hours/week) and as such don't have time (or the desire) to wait around for a PUG raid group to fill up. I watched a PUG raid group wait around for 45 minuted before it disappeared off the LFM screen. When I get on to raid, I don't have enough time to wait 45 minutes to get started because then, just over an hour into the Twighlight Forge, I'd probably have to leave the group to log. And, seeing as how, even when 'less experienced' players are decent players and do a good job (which is probably most of them) it just takes too long for me with my limited amount of play time.

Does it make me an elitist if I don't bring less experienced people along with me when I raid? I don't think so. I don't bring less experienced people along with me because its been my experience that it makes everything take longer and I don't consider my DDO time to be worth 'jack-squat'.

And who pray tell took the time to teach your casual player self how to do the things you know how to do now? Was that person or persons time any less important to them then your time is to you? You WERE that 'less experienced' person at some point after all, we all were. The very fact that you won't take the time to do with someone else exactly what someone took the time to do for you DOES make you elitist, YOU were good enough to be taught the tricks, but no one else is good enough for YOU to waste your time with. Please, a list of your characters and servers so I know to avoid wasting your time, I happen to believe in returning the favor shown me by good players to new players.

[Grond]

the new system i would think discourages raiding, as a group tested the system on risia, they thought wow all this work for nothing............

'Wow all this work for nothing...' Exactly what 10 out of 12 in a raid group think under the current system, where they get nothing. Not vendor trash, nothing. Not a chance to roll great items out of the loot generator, nothing.

[Hvymetal]

'Wow all this work for nothing...' Exactly what 10 out of 12 in a raid group think under the current system, where they get nothing. Not vendor trash, nothing. Not a chance to roll great items out of the loot generator, nothing.

QFT

[Gimpster]

'Wow all this work for nothing...' Exactly what 10 out of 12 in a raid group think under the current system, where they get nothing.

That is spectacularly false. 10/12 of current raid groups do not think that, and could not possibly think that, because typical raids today do not bring 12 players. They bring less, meaning more of them get a to recieve loot.

Furthermore, whether they get loot or not is solely a question of human interaction- whether or not the raid leader assigns them some. Winning a raid means you could be given some loot, and it's not a matter of fate or luck.

[Vinos]

Oh em gee! No changing things!

I would really like it if you would stop quoting only a fraction of a sentence. Try taking the WHOLE post into consideration before you attack 1/2 a sentence. You're better than this.

[etelan]

Craziness. Imagine you want a particular item from say DQ. approx 1/20 chance now multiple by 1 in 6 chance of getting any item.

1/20 * 1/6 < 1% chance
Assume an approx avg of 4hr to rekey and it takes 400 Hours to get that item.

More Fair NOT DOES equal less loot for everyone. Level 12 chest loot instead? May as well be empty.

What is the point of raid loot if nobody has any. And then where is the reward for raiding? What this new system needs MINIMUM is the ability to choose what raid item your getting after 6 runs. If I know that in 24 hours I can have whatever item I want raiding may still be viable.

[DaveyCrockett]

Which one is it?

LOL.. Good one.. Ol' BB disappeared once you called him out. Totally off-topic, but I don't give a ****. I got a kick out of it!

[akla_thornfist]

one raid does not give an accurate account of what can be pulled from a warded chest, they had bad rolls period. when you run that quest at least a dozen times then come back and give a running tally of what was pulled. the assumption that you are gonna get **** everytime can only be determend by repeating the quest and taking the average. do you get good stuff everytime you run pop i dont think so, my average to get a good drop in pop is every 6 runs.

[Vinos]

one raid does not give an accurate account of what can be pulled from a warded chest, they had bad rolls period. when you run that quest at least a dozen times then come back and give a running tally of what was pulled. the assumption that you are gonna get **** everytime can only be determend by repeating the quest and taking the average. do you get good stuff everytime you run pop i dont think so, my average to get a good drop in pop is every 6 runs.

I agree. 1 loot pull doesn't mean much. But doing 6 runs of PoP and 6 runs of Titan are totally different. 6 runs of PoP= 3 hours tops(assuming a decent team) 6 Titan runs= 18 days

[Gimpster]

one raid does not give an accurate account of what can be pulled from a warded chest, they had bad rolls period.

According to the probability numbers released in the developer announcement, they didn't have bad rolls: they had average rolls. Exactly the kind of thing you would expect from level 12 generic items plus a 1/6th chance of raid loot. With fewer than 6 players, it would take a good roll to see named items at all.

The disappointment those testers faced will be typical to every group of less than 12 in the future.

[renegade117]

It's not about that at all, but if you want to take it there, I don't really care. This is about risk vs reward, plain and simple. The Titan on elite...3 man....and you get +1 guard armor? That is a complete waste of time. I would rather 2 named items drop that nobody could use than pull that garbage from a warded chest.

Then again, when my rogue got the Chaosblade I was pretty amused and ran around with it in my hand for a couple days. /shrug

As for casual/hard core... the only reason I would run the Titan is for a chance at the unique items in it... If it was junk like that, and being a more casual player, i would not wast my time. That is awful.

[MysticTheurge]

I would really like it if you would stop quoting only a fraction of a sentence. Try taking the WHOLE post into consideration before you attack 1/2 a sentence. You're better than this.

I did read the whole post and I quoted the relevant part. For what it's worth, I think you're right. People don't like change and that is what's going on here. I just have never accepted the fact that people don't like change as a good reason not to change things.

[ebt-dnd]

'Wow all this work for nothing...' Exactly what 10 out of 12 in a raid group think under the current system, where they get nothing. Not vendor trash, nothing. Not a chance to roll great items out of the loot generator, nothing.

Actually, they think "wow, all this work and I got squat, but at least a couple people got something nice so it wasn't a total loss". Whereas in the new system "what a bunch of .... Why did we spend all our time in here? We could have done WW on elite and gotten better loot".

[ebt-dnd]

With fewer than 6 players, it would take a good roll to see named items at all.

I think what scares people the most is their experience with the current chests. The majority have crappy rolls and get crappy loot. They're just extending it to the warded chests now and predicting what they'll get... All those guys out there that get **** while everyone else in the team gets vorpals/banishers/etc out of PoP? Guess what's going to happen in the raids...

[Prinstoni]

An example of the attitude so prevelent among the elitist/powergamer minority in DDO...and in most other MMOs and many other online games as well, I've seen this in games from Doom2 to Battlefield 2142. Hells, I've even been guilty of it myself when I was playing competatively in the leagues for prizes/money, but at least I actually had a reason to not want to spend my time with newbs, money, real world money, was at stake.

Now...in DDO, your time is worth..well...jack squat. We pay a flat monthly fee to play, so if you spend 1 hour a month or 500 hours a month doesn't matter, the price is the same. No contests, no prizes, no nothing but actually playing the game for the ingame rewards which have 0 real world value..baring the plat sellers that is.

So I really fail to see how it's a WASTE OF YOUR TIME to play this game with people who may not be as good as you, people who don't know everything in a quest forwards and backwards, people who are JUST LIKE YOU WERE WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED! Someone took the time to show you how to play, why can't you return that favor?

Ah..yes..it's because you are too busy running the 4 raids over and over and over trying to get that special named raid item you need for your build or to be uber or just to brag about. And the new loot mechanic means you'll have to spend even more time doing exactly what you are doing NOW full time anyway, HOW DARE TURBINE DO THAT TO YOU! Er..hang on a minute...you already do nothing but run raids...so...how does the new loot mechanic actually change that? Someone on Risia told me they didn't like the new mechanic because it means people will farm the raids more, and I asked them, 'how is that any different from now?'...they got real quiet and finally answered...'it isn't is it?'.

You folks who do nothing but raid already DO NOTHING BUT RAID...how does this change that in any way? It doesn't, your playing time will be spent in exactly the same manner it was before. You won't take PUGers along, you won't increase the size of your raid groups beyond what is needed and you'll continue to run each raid as soon as whatever characters you have can run them again. How many of you have run VoN6 50 times and not gotten a SoS? How many of you have run X raid Y times without getting Z item, even doing them with 2 or 3 people? What would have been the reaction of the people in the screenshot for this Titan raid if they pulled 2 of the docents instead of the loot they got instead? That's right, they'd have pitched a fit about it since none of them are Forged and that would be 2 named items that were totally useless to them...at least they'll get more coin from vendors for what they got then those 2 docents would have garnered. What if they'd pulled 2 items that each of them already had, which is quite probable for raid oriented guilds right now, I know more then a few people who only run raids for the tomes that might drop, they have everything else..and even the tomes are iffy..they've used so many that they only have 1 stat not bumped +2 yet. But they KEEP running the raids over and over and over...waiting on new content..which means waiting for a new raid to add to their list of 4 things to do 2x a week with each character they have...it's all they do. The new loot mechanic doesn't change that one bit, you'll continue to play exactly as you have been, only difference is...well....you might make a little more coin off a raid then you did before.

Most people don't like change...unless it's change they ask for and that means change that increases their percieved power. Anything else and they are against it, no matter if it helps the game or not, ESPECIALLY if they think it'll lower their percieved power in any way, shape or form, such as changing loot tables. Nevermind that this change is good for the game, they hate it because it somehow makes them less powerful in some indefinable way.

I disagree that all people were ever on a level playing field. People who have other video game or in the case of puzzles have better base skills than others.

There is and never was a level playing field when it comes to playing any video game. I have friends that I have played video games with for 10-15 years, and I would venture to say that anyone of them could come onto DDO today and be soloing Raids in a month or less.

Simply put, some people are just better players, and players are not equal in their intelect and/or playing skills regardless of experience. However, I am not denying the fact that people who log more hours are usually better than others (but this is not and never will be true in most circumstances).

That is if you suck from day one and are not intuitive enough to develop a better playing style or do not have the coordination to tag multiple buttons on your keyboard quickly, you will never be as good as others.

Now...That is an elitist statement (not saying that I am even remotely good).

[KristovK]

I disagree that all people were ever on a level playing field. People who have other video game or in the case of puzzles have better base skills than others.

There is and never was a level playing field when it comes to playing any video game. I have friends that I have played video games with for 10-15 years, and I would venture to say that anyone of them could come onto DDO today and be soloing Raids in a month or less.

Simply put, some people are just better players, and players are not equal in their intelect and/or playing skills regardless of experience. However, I am not denying the fact that people who log more hours are usually better than others (but this is not and never will be true in most circumstances).

That is if you suck from day one and are not intuitive enough to develop a better playing style or do not have the coordination to tag multiple buttons on your keyboard quickly, you will never be as good as others.

Now...That is an elitist statement (not saying that I am even remotely good).

To quote a well known commercial here in the US...'huh?' I can't find anywhere in my post where I said anything concerning what you posted. I know I never said anything about a level playing field. And I know some people will always be better at any given game then others, I do believe everyone is aware of that or should be if they are over the age of 12...many probably know this before they hit 8, provided they play any sports at all. So why you feel the need to point out the obvious is a bit beyond me, especially as it has no context with what I, or anyone else that I can see for that matter, posted. Was it the bit about not wanting to play with people who aren't as good at the game? Or perhaps the bit about being taught how to play the game? Both of those statements pretty much imply what you are saying here, that some people are better at the game than others, so again, huh?

[MysticTheurge]

I disagree that all people were ever on a level playing field.

...

Simply put, some people are just better players, and players are not equal in their intelect and/or playing skills regardless of experience.

You seem to be missing the concept of a "level playing field." The analogy refers to the field itself, not the skill of the players. Consider a, let's say, soccer field that was angled (i.e. not level) in one direction such that the ball naturally rolled towards one of the goals. One team would have a distinct advantage, regardless of which team had more skilled players.

Vagaries in player skill doesn't make for a "not level playing field," it just makes for difference in player skill. What makes a not level playing field is if one group of people has an advantage over the other where that advantage is granted by the system.