Maximum Level Loot = Junk, SCRAP raid loot idea

[Aspenor]

Look at this garbage

Can any of you honestly say you'd prefer that garbage over opening up a raid chest with guaranteed two pieces of loot to roll on? OR EVEN JUST ONE!!???

[Rekker]

Thats why we need the Token option.

And the chest should be at the least similar to ones in PoP, not the level 8 **** you usually get from the chests next to the warded one.

[Grond]

Maximum level loot = junk? Must be why Prison of the Planes is so popular...

[Aspenor]

Maximum level loot = junk? Must be why Prison of the Planes is so popular...

PoP is popular because even a party full of noobs can complete it easily on elite with a vorpal and a halfway decent caster.

[Aesop]

yep that looks like a bad pull... they should probably adjust the tables a touch. Still I've seen worse and at least now I can get something to cover my losses in a raid. I never did a lt of raids because I never got a single Raid item when I did do them. Buit I spent pretty pennies on scrolls or wands or whatever.

BUt yes I do think that the loot table should be improved over all


Aesop

[Rekker]

Maximum level loot = junk? Must be why Prison of the Planes is so popular...

I think by maximum level he means an elite raid chest, which should be the max level chest in-game. If you ran PoP and pulled that chest you would probably file a bug report.

[Grond]

Ahh, I see. This is still about elitist vs. casual, my mistake. I thought you were saying maximum loot level chests were junk.

[Aspenor]

Ahh, I see. This is still about elitist vs. casual, my mistake. I thought you were saying maximum loot level chests were junk.

It's not about that at all, but if you want to take it there, I don't really care. This is about risk vs reward, plain and simple. The Titan on elite...3 man....and you get +1 guard armor? That is a complete waste of time. I would rather 2 named items drop that nobody could use than pull that garbage from a warded chest.

Then again, when my rogue got the Chaosblade I was pretty amused and ran around with it in my hand for a couple days. /shrug

[Zenako]

let me toss a hypothectical out there. Do we know that the loot in the chest as it currently is spawned is "from the Maximum loot table" or just a level XX quest?

As I read the info, in the Warded chest, where you would now find the 2 Raid items, you will now find X items (where X equals the number of toons on the quest at the Chest spawing moment). In that chest everyone will have a single item. It could be from the old Raid Item list, or more likely it is a single item from the "Maximum loot table". Having a level 14 chest and a Maximum loot table are not the same thing. There is a whole range of results on a level 14 chest, if the loot generation has anything in common with PnP D&D treasure generations there are a number of levels of rolls that occur before you get to the Maximum Loot table. Some of those earlier rolls lead down the path to inferior treasure results, that are not from the Maximum Loot Table.

Until we see the actual span of the results from this change we can only speculate and hope that the coding will take you too Loot Table Uber. (Looking at current chests and extrapolating is fraught with peril in this regard.) You know, the one with all the Wiz VI, Vorps, Greater False Life, Heavy Fort items on it....

[Turial]

Hey Aspenor, what was the min level on the items that you found in that chest? If they all were items of the max level that could spawn from that quest then you have provided pretty convincing evidence that a max level item spawn isn't worth the work to do a raid. If they, however, are lower then the max level that could be spawned from that level of chest then there is a clarity issue on turbines part with how the new raid chests will work.

Just to clarify for those that may read this a max level spawn from a level 14 chest should be level 14 or higher. Anything less then that means you are less likely to recoup any monetary losses you have in running the raid.

[Cinwulf]

Actually for chests max lvl of weapons and armor is chest lvl -3. Pretty sure this is correct. That's why in pop elite during +1 loot days you could see lvl 14 weapons and armor. (17-3 = 14)

[Vinos]

Maximum level loot = junk? Must be why Prison of the Planes is so popular...

PoP is faster and repeatable. Raid= once every 3 days. PoP=7-8 times a week and no pre-reqs

[Turial]

So it really comes down to the question of is it still worth it to raid if your chance of an item is so low and the other rewards are even less appealing.

I'll give it a chance but it will only take a few skunks to get me to stop raiding.

[Rekker]

PoP is faster and repeatable. Raid= once every 3 days. PoP=7-8 times a week and no pre-reqs

I've seen groups ransack PoP in a matter of hours and pull multiple banishers/disrupter/vorpals while the raid group runs and get multiple tenderizers...seems pretty fair to me

[Talson]

I've seen groups ransack PoP in a matter of hours and pull multiple banishers/disrupter/vorpals while the raid group runs and get multiple tenderizers...seems pretty fair to me

Yep that's part of the reason why I don't like the raid change. A more productive loot use of your time would be ransacking Trial by fire, running Pop a few times etc... Odds are the time spent looting would be more productive item wise than the time spent raiding...

-Tal

[Cinwulf]

Yep that's part of the reason why I don't like the raid change. A more productive loot use of your time would be ransacking Trial by fire, running Pop a few times etc... Odds are the time spent looting would be more productive item wise than the time spent raiding...

-Tal

Even before the change it's more productive to do as you suggested, maybe that's the real problem and the change only make it worse.

[Aspenor]

Hey Aspenor, what was the min level on the items that you found in that chest? If they all were items of the max level that could spawn from that quest then you have provided pretty convincing evidence that a max level item spawn isn't worth the work to do a raid. If they, however, are lower then the max level that could be spawned from that level of chest then there is a clarity issue on turbines part with how the new raid chests will work.

Just to clarify for those that may read this a max level spawn from a level 14 chest should be level 14 or higher. Anything less then that means you are less likely to recoup any monetary losses you have in running the raid.

Wasn't my run, I got that from another thread. It was a guy from Mabar and some of his guildies.

[MysticTheurge]

Here's the thing though.

Anyone who regularly ran in a 12-man raid (i.e. more casual players) can tell you that you don't really raid for raid loot. You raid for "a chance at raid loot." If you didn't get that (and only 2 out of 12 people could get that), then you got what most people would call "junk" (which is to say, loot that would come out of any other chest in a quest of that level). I'd wager a guess that this is actually what the devs intended. They built the old system with the expectation that you'd be running in 12-man groups. Then, of course, everyone got good at them and realized that they got more loot per person if they ran in smaller groups. So they did. And that meant raid loot was making it's way into the system far faster than the devs expected and/or intended.

The new system puts it back to the way it was originally intended, for everyone, regardless of group size. You're raiding for a chance at raid loot. This is especially hard to accept for people who figured out how to work the old system and were getting as much as 1 piece of raid loot per person.

Setting aside, of course, the whole "you could just play the game to actually, you know, do quests and have fun" argument, since those same people who are complaining the most about this have, at this point, done all the raids so many times that they don't really have fun doing them any more. Which is a shame, because it means that it ends up just being about the reward and nothing else. And then when the system changes for how that reward is rewarded you become especially unhappy.

[Riddikulus]

I think by maximum level he means an elite raid chest, which should be the max level chest in-game. If you ran PoP and pulled that chest you would probably file a bug report.

Well PoP _is_ two levels higher than Titan.

But yes that loot is pathetic.

At minimum I think they need to do a +1 or +2 on the normal loot from the warded chest. That might actually make the new system more palatable.

[Draclaud]

This is what I was afraid of. With stuff like this happening, why would you EVER do a raid again?