Maximum Level Loot = Junk, SCRAP raid loot idea

[Rekker]

Seems fair to me. Risk Vs. Reward.

If a 3 man can easily do the Titan the quest must not be too difficult.

What difficulty was the quest ran on? I am quite pleased with the proposed changes to the raid loot. Obviously there needs to be a little tweaking on the supplemental replacement loot. I want potions and scrolls in higher stacks then 1 or 2; 10+?

I'm honestly excited about the changes. The current system is bad in more ways then the proposed system. That doesn't mean there's a better way, just that Turbine needs to continue looking at a way to enhance the rewards from completion of Raid quests.

I completely agree that the raid chest needs this change.

I think the main point in this thread is that if they go with that change, they need to do something with the chest if you don't get a raid item since they are such low level chests to begin with. That way when a group runs it and nobody gets a raid item they get some kind of reward.

[Beherit_Baphomar]

All posts = **** except #18 #24 #29 #39 #40

LOL...irony at its best.

[Aesop]

drop those by 2 and i might agree.

you don't think that would make the requirements too low?

I mean I wouldn't mind myself ... but I'm thinking in terms of balance and all that.

Aesop

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Here's the thing though.

Anyone who regularly ran in a 12-man raid (i.e. more casual players) can tell you that you don't really raid for raid loot. You raid for "a chance at raid loot." If you didn't get that (and only 2 out of 12 people could get that), then you got what most people would call "junk" (which is to say, loot that would come out of any other chest in a quest of that level). I'd wager a guess that this is actually what the devs intended. They built the old system with the expectation that you'd be running in 12-man groups. Then, of course, everyone got good at them and realized that they got more loot per person if they ran in smaller groups. So they did. And that meant raid loot was making it's way into the system far faster than the devs expected and/or intended.

The new system puts it back to the way it was originally intended, for everyone, regardless of group size. You're raiding for a chance at raid loot. This is especially hard to accept for people who figured out how to work the old system and were getting as much as 1 piece of raid loot per person.

Setting aside, of course, the whole "you could just play the game to actually, you know, do quests and have fun" argument, since those same people who are complaining the most about this have, at this point, done all the raids so many times that they don't really have fun doing them any more. Which is a shame, because it means that it ends up just being about the reward and nothing else. And then when the system changes for how that reward is rewarded you become especially unhappy.

And once again I like the new system better than the old one or tokens.

Absolutely spot on MT.

[Riddikulus]

LOL...irony at its best.

lol... I missed that one.

[Cowdenicus]

HA!!! VANASH try to get rich off that loot!!!!!!! when you do!! send me a postcard

if you go broke then......then dont send me one

Rich, I play clerics, pssssh.

I aint rich.

Pay no attention to that mule and cart with all my scrolls on it...

[Vinos]

And once again I like the new system better than the old one or tokens.

Absolutely spot on MT.

Yeah, that dude just pulled a pile of **** outta that chest...man, that stuffs not even vendor worthy...thats 'sell to the nearest npc' worthy right there.

How disappointing must it be to finish a raid and see that come out of the chest?

Tokens keep on looking more and more attractive every day...

Which one is it?

[Cowdenicus]

you don't think that would make the requirements too low?

I mean I wouldn't mind myself ... but I'm thinking in terms of balance and all that.

Aesop

2 levels....

no, I believe you can get +1 items at level 1, enhancements for +1 stat at level 2, and +1 tomes should be ML1.....

Personally though, I think a +2 tome should be around..... ML 8, then +3 levels for +1 stat from there out.

+1 ML 1
+2 ML 8
+3 ML 11
+4 ML 14
+5 ML 17

[Aesop]

2 levels....

no, I believe you can get +1 items at level 1, enhancements for +1 stat at level 2, and +1 tomes should be ML1.....

Personally though, I think a +2 tome should be around..... ML 8, then +3 levels for +1 stat from there out.

+1 ML 1
+2 ML 8
+3 ML 11
+4 ML 14
+5 ML 17

I could live with that

Aesop

[Prinstoni]

When was PnP DnD ever not about the reward?

When was DDO ever not about the Reward?

When was any MMO ever not about the reward?

Maybe the first time you ever played it. Get a life wankers. You don't realize that this is a nerf up and down.

The average number of groups will get 2 items if and only if they have 12 in their party.

That means, on average you will see 2 items drop in a group of 12 (more or less). That could mean you run the dragon 10 times and not see any loot or you could run it 10 times and see 1 named loot drop.

The point is. I am a "pugger" not a guild member, but I do play with friends.
I have never ever even since the begining of the game ran a Raid with a full 12 man group because...

1) someone dc's
2) someone has to go
3) someone fell off (like in VON5)
4) everyone dies except people who cannot res (used to happen more frequently when we didn't all reroll for umd builds and have res rings)
5) someone screws up and none of the clrs have a blue crystal.

etc...
Now, I would love to see how many people run every raid with 12 people all the time. I might just do a survey.

Because every number I have seen for a group of less than 12 shows significant decreases in the probability of getting named loot.

Not that I care. I have pretty much everything I want, but this means that YOU will not get a "Delvin Suit" as easy as before.

I just want the devs to stop changing existing content...
If they want to implement changes fine, do it on the new stuff comming out and we won't care.

[Cowdenicus]

When was PnP DnD ever not about the reward?

When was DDO ever not about the Reward?

When was any MMO ever not about the reward?

Maybe the first time you ever played it. Get a life wankers. You don't realize that this is a nerf up and down.

The average number of groups will get 2 items if and only if they have 12 in their party.

That means, on average you will see 2 items drop in a group of 12 (more or less). That could mean you run the dragon 10 times and not see any loot or you could run it 10 times and see 1 named loot drop.

The point is. I am a "pugger" not a guild member, but I do play with friends.
I have never ever even since the begining of the game ran a Raid with a full 12 man group because...

1) someone dc's
2) someone has to go
3) someone fell off (like in VON5)
4) everyone dies except people who cannot res (used to happen more frequently when we didn't all reroll for umd builds and have res rings)
5) someone screws up and none of the clrs have a blue crystal.

etc...
Now, I would love to see how many people run every raid with 12 people all the time. I might just do a survey.

Because every number I have seen for a group of less than 12 shows significant decreases in the probability of getting named loot.

Not that I care. I have pretty much everything I want, but this means that YOU will not get a "Delvin Suit" as easy as before.

I just want the devs to stop changing existing content...
If they want to implement changes fine, do it on the new stuff comming out and we won't care.

P.S. I want my loots. /agree

[Uska]

hehe you're silly

you made me snarf Cherry Juice

now I look like I have a bloody nose thanks


Aesop

Now that thought calms me a bit thanks for the laugh

[Uska]

Tomes don't need to bind, if they give them MLs.

Always thought they should have

[MysticTheurge]

When was PnP DnD ever not about the reward?

Uh. Well that depends on what you include in "reward."

Do you seriously play D&D to get "phat lewtz" or do you play to have fun with your friends?

[Riddikulus]

2 levels....

no, I believe you can get +1 items at level 1, enhancements for +1 stat at level 2, and +1 tomes should be ML1.....

Personally though, I think a +2 tome should be around..... ML 8, then +3 levels for +1 stat from there out.

+1 ML 1
+2 ML 8
+3 ML 11
+4 ML 14
+5 ML 17

I don't think anything but armor and weapons get even number MLs.

So more likely would be:
+1 ML 1
+2 ML 5
+3 ML 9
+4 ML 13
+5 ML 17

[Talson]

Uh. Well that depends on what you include in "reward."

Do you seriously play D&D to get "phat lewtz" or do you play to have fun with your friends?

Yeah but you can do loot runs in GH with friends and guildies and get both benefits and the odds of getting good loot will be better than the raids....

[Talson]

I don't think anything but armor and weapons get even number MLs.

So more likely would be:
+1 ML 1
+2 ML 5
+3 ML 9
+4 ML 13
+5 ML 17

I was thinking of going the other dirrection and basing the tome increases off of stat bumps if you want to assign min level reqs...

+1 ML 4
+2 ML 8
+3 ML 12
+4 ML 16
+5 ML 20

[Hafeal]

The game is so easy that people complain they can 2 or 3 man raids, that elite content needs to be harder ... yet here are the cries for more and better raid loot? For what? To make the quests even easier?

Making raid loot rarer is just fine by me. Power-gamers will still get theirs by running the same raids they do now - the bar to obtain the loot has been raised, it was too low to begin with. And if power-gamers want to stop running raids, so be it.

PoP is popular because even a party full of noobs can complete it easily on elite with a vorpal and a halfway decent caster.

Well PoP _is_ two levels higher than Titan.

But yes that loot is pathetic.

At minimum I think they need to do a +1 or +2 on the normal loot from the warded chest. That might actually make the new system more palatable.

And this is exactly why the worthless raid loot needs to be removed. This is why the maximum loot tables need to be adjusted to give out better loot for the warded chest.

[jaitee]

The game is so easy that people complain they can 2 or 3 man raids, that elite content needs to be harder ... yet here are the cries for more and better raid loot? For what? To make the quests even easier?

Making raid loot rarer is just fine by me. Power-gamers will still get theirs by running the same raids they do now - the bar to obtain the loot has been raised, it was too low to begin with. And if power-gamers want to stop running raids, so be it.

so if all the people that has reached the limit in the game quit this very second, how many people do you think would be online now, just alone now on my server, 3/4 of the LFMs are for raids/prereqs, so if all these people quit due to boredom, then that would be alot of people

many people raid because their is nothing to do in the game, take that away and their isnt a whole lot of reason to keep playing

and i know people will say LEAVE GO BYEBYE, but you know why they merged the servers? yea, maybe after everyone leaves, they can re merge it into one last server

people raid to have something to do, raiding = loot, if you raid it means you want loot, or to some people they say "fun"

[Vinos]

The game is so easy that people complain they can 2 or 3 man raids, that elite content needs to be harder ... yet here are the cries for more and better raid loot? For what? To make the quests even easier?

Making raid loot rarer is just fine by me. Power-gamers will still get theirs by running the same raids they do now - the bar to obtain the loot has been raised, it was too low to begin with. And if power-gamers want to stop running raids, so be it.

At least you realize that the caual gamers will get hurt as well. I don't think anyone is advocating MORE raid loot but you have to understand people don't like thier gameplay messed with and that is what Turbine is doing. I realize that it's Turbine's game and they can do whatever they want with it but that doesn't make the pill easier to swallow. In the end I don't think much will really change. The people who raid all the time will still get their loot(just may take longer) and the casual people who raid 2 times a month will still be upset they don't have raid loot and curse the power-gamers who don't let them tag along on raids.