Stop the Raid loot change or risk losing many more players

[oronisi]

I don't doubt that some people are seriously thinking of cancelling.

However, I really hope they won't. Even though I don't personally approve of the change, I don't think its really enough for anyone to stop playing, at least until we see how it works in the actual game.

I expect it will be bad, but not super-bad. (And from a selfish perspective, a player like myself will suffer less from it than many others)

From a singular player's perspective, this lowers raid loot by a bit (assuming not all raids are filled with 12 players)....from a guild or group-oriented perspective, this hurts teamwork. No longer are you part of a team deciding in democracy who would best benefit from loot....each person is their own agent now, giving 'possession is 9/10ths of the law' rights to loot before it can be decided upon.

I don't like the new system in 2 ways, listed above. I do like it from the perspective of a solo player, but raids aren't about solo players...they are about groups that work together. I would like to see them lower the rate of this system and add it on top of the current system. Each player gets a 1/12 chance of having raid loot under their name on top of 2 items tied to the 2 runes of the current system. You can also add in like 3 chances for random but good loot to even things out (from dropping too much raid loot).

Either way, I think the system should allow for group-oriented decisions that don't put individual players in a bad position (making them keep or donate an item already assigned to them), and doesn't kill any insentive to try a raid with a smaller group. Enough of the 6 man raid vs 12 man raid...a 10 man raid should not be penalized because they are 2 men short. The extra challenge should be enough. Greater risk, greater (or at least equal!) reward.

[Hendrik]

I've replied to other threads but I'm posting my own. People are already canceling over this proposed change.

Turbine, you need to rethink this or you're going to lose more customers over this change.

Fix the loot so it can't be exploited but either keep the loot system as is and include random loot with the main chests or consider adding a token based system with the already two dropped raid items.

If you change raid loot like this, you will lose customers.

I say fine!

Wonder how many are quitting are the same ones that Quit over;

HV Change
Enhancements
Spell Points
Tokens
Etc.

Same song and boring dance that goes on and on.

In a week or two it will be forgotten about and the 'haters' will rally behind the new thing.

[Uska]

Your opinion I am seeing many people say they like it or that they are at least waiting to see how it really is current way is horrible only benfits power gamers so lets give it a chance.

[ace_mason]

I have been on the side of the power gamers since day one. offering my /sign to almost everythread that asked for it. I think the people at turbine are about as ignorant someone can get.They completly ignore what the mass of ddo wants. With that said I give up. I am just gonna roll with the punches on this one. I am a little happy to see raid loot become epic loot. It will be nice to put in the hard work to get an item and not see a **** load of other people wearing the same items. I will get my loot because that is what I do.The people that this will affect the most will be the non guilded/non power gamers. And turbine just so you know they will beat you they always do.
The power gamers will find a way to take adavantage of the "unintended game features" you supply us with. The only people you are truly hurting are the ones you are trying to help.Take pride in knowing you are destroying a game that some people have looked forward to seeing online since they were kids.

[Uska]

/signed.

I'm thinking about quiting anyway because I am so sick of nerf after nerf instead of creating new content.

BTW. Sorry guys. I have not logged in in three days. I found a new game that is more interesting. It is called my boat is finally fixed...

No you cannot have my loot items. If I leave I will destroy them in front of you and then delete my characters. I earned them not you.

I have cried on the forums for months (years at times) because of constant nerf after nerf, but I always seem to get outnumbered by the noobs who don't know any better or Dev brown nosers who always stick up for Turbine. Does Turbine pay you guys to agree with them? If not, maybe you ought to get a life.

The point is that many people are going to be upset about this new change and those that are not obviously see some likely good thing comming from it.

I would like to see a thread that lists one good thing about the proposed new system... I am definately not convinced that turning raids into a one every 3 day scale run garbage is going to make us have bigger parties. We are going to play with the people we want to anyway. Some of us might just pack up and leave.

Just because people like thing differnet then you doesnt make them noobs in fact if they are in the majority doesnt it seem clear that maybe they are the smarter ones

[Uska]

Well ****, I was going to quote my first post from Nov 2006 when I went on a rampage about the nerf'd enhancment changes, but it has been deleted. Like my trading post and some of my other posts that I rather valued.

Anyway, you are correct. My first rant was in Nov/2006, and that is when I logged into the forum, although I have been playing this game since March of 2006 with few gripes from March to November of 2006.

I registered into the forums then because of the enhancement nerf, and I have been ranting about every nerf after nerf since. I keep hanging around because I like the game ( I used to love i, but that is diminishing), and I hope that Turbine comes out with some new raids and high level quests.

The forums should be a spot for people to come and explain why they are upset and what about, so the devs/Turbine can listen to their customers.

However, I have yet to see them listen to anyone. Hence, this will be my last rant.

/end rant forever.

From now on I love Tubine and everything they do to make my life more enjoyable. I love you guys. Thank you for listening.

Another point where you and many others disagree many think the ehancement revamp was a boost not a nerf.

[Aesop]

I want to see how the new system goes... I think I like it personally


Aesop

[Jove]

I like the changes. I have seen groups deny folks from joining them out of Raid Loot greed, or simply because they wanted to lower the odds of being rolled against if the item they are looking for was in the chest.

It seems to me if it is all about the challenge of doing it with as few folks as possible, nothing prevents that from still being done. I admit it was nice knowing that you had a definate 2 items in the chest for your trouble, it was never guaranteed they were what you are looking for but they would be there.

Personally I kind of like the idea that if I am looking for a specific raid item, forming up a group of friends and heading in there with a large group might actually increase my chances of it being in the chest. Who knows, maybe several will roll well and many in the group might get lucky.

[Greenstone]

Although im a big fan of developers listening to their fan base, I hate when people post topics like this one with a title like it has.

You have no evidence to prove that this is a bad implementation yet, nor are you even close to knowing what the mass population of DDO wants. Just because you read a few posts by a mere fraction of the population or because you and your best friend are like "This is dumb" doesnt mean that its a bad idea.

If this turns out to be a flop we wont know til after its launched or at least completely tested on the test server, at which time turbine can make an educated decision on whether or not it should be changed.

Like ive said before, sure you may get some raids where no loot drops, and yes there will be raids when 6+ pieces drop, but as it is now, I hear complaints about how the loot that does drop cant be used by the part that it dropped for or how the one thing they want never drops.

All im saying is give it a chance because people arent going to leave in the masses over one change, because if enough people dont like it after implementation, the devs will change it.

[yk49]

/singed

shortmanning/soloing raids requires smarter play or more indivisual effort.
people lose interests when their effort dosent benefit themselves.
i dont wanna lose smart or eager players around me any more.
being smart or making effort should be rewarded, just because this is game.

[Thrudh]

/not signed

The old system penalized groups for taking more people... That goes against how the rest of this game was built...

Yes, the change is a nerf in how much raid loot drops currently, but this change takes us back to the intended DESIGN of the raids... The Devs designed the raids for 12 people with 2 items dropping... They did not intend to have 2 people do the raids with a 100% chance at getting raid loot.

Yes, EVERYONE will see less raid loot now, but MORE people will actually get a chance to DO the raids... And that's what is important...

I applaud the change! Way to go Turbine...

[ArkoHighStar]

/singed

shortmanning/soloing raids requires smarter play or more indivisual effort.
people lose interests when their effort dosent benefit themselves.
i dont wanna lose smart or eager players around me any more.
being smart or making effort should be rewarded, just because this is game.

shortmanning raids does not require smarter play, in fact DQ and giant are easier with smaller groups. This points to poor design not smart players, the only smart players are the first ones to figure out what method works best. Everyone else who shortmans these raids after is just following their formula so that they do not have to roll against others for loot.

[FoxOne]

not even worth it.nvm

[D'rin]

.

The forums should be a spot for people to come and explain why they are upset and what about, so the devs/Turbine can listen to their customers.

However, I have yet to see them listen to anyone. Hence, this will be my last rant.


I gotta jump on this part of your post. Turbine has been listening just maybe not to what you wanted them to.
People complained about evasion----- changed
people complained about HV ----- changed
people complained about lack of spell points---- changed.
people complained about rate of fire on bows ----- changed( not great but they tried)
people complained about lack of solo content----- changed
people complained about cleric specific deities----- changed(again not great but hey they never were anyway.)

There are more but I don't have time to go through them all. Yes there have been nerfs(I deleted 2 characters and possiblly 2 more due to changes). But also there have been boosts ie. toughness enhancements, barbarian critical rage, etc.

I am don't really care that much about he raid loot. I do want to see it become more rare. It should be harder to get good raid loot. I like getting something from the final chest but the final raid chest should drop +1 loot and also give the chance to get the raid loot. This way if you don't get anything from the raid list you at least feel you got somethng for your time.

There are no perfect solutions. I will give this one a try and see how it pans out. There are always people who are going to complain when their favorite toy gets broken. They need to put on their big boy pants and deal with it.

[Shamguard]

I've replied to other threads but I'm posting my own. People are already canceling over this proposed change.

Turbine, you need to rethink this or you're going to lose more customers over this change.

Fix the loot so it can't be exploited but either keep the loot system as is and include random loot with the main chests or consider adding a token based system with the already two dropped raid items.

If you change raid loot like this, you will lose customers.

As a victim of abuse of the current system, I like the change.

I probably still won't get the items I would like, but at least I will get something. (maybe )

I know several players who don't run raids because of the current system. For reasons that have been beaten to death in these forums for months.

Before we go crying about the changes let's all see how they work out.

This really just makes all the raids more like Tempest Spine which seems to be the most popular raid in the game.

[Alexander_Illusioni]

signed