Pure bard or Bard/Rogue? Looking for advice.

[Alavatar]

So, I was thinking about making a bard (human) but I am not sure if I should be a Rogue 2/Bard X or just a pure bard.

Does anyone have any advice? Pros and cons?

Here is what I see:
Rogue/Bard Pros
Evasion
Disable Device/Open Lock capabilities
Sneak Attack (miniscule, but still nice)

Rogue/Bard Cons
Less spells (No 5th level spells)
Less spell points
Less skill points (Disable Device, Open Lock, Search, and Spot are all cross-class)
Less songs
-1 BAB (not that important, but notable)

Pure Bard Pros
More skill points available (for those nifty skills like UMD, Haggle, Tumble, etc)
Max spells
Max spell points
More songs

Pure Bard Cons
No Evasion
No Disable Device/Open Locks (not super important)

I am leaning towards a pure bard build.

[Freeman]

Personally, I'm not a big fan of multi-classing bards. They have more than enough abilities to make adding more from another class unnecessary. If I want to play a bard, I play my bard(s). If I want to be a rogue, I play my rogue. I tried a multi-class bard/rogue a long time ago, but I always felt like I was behind.(Not quite what I could be as a pure bard or rogue.)

[Jeannie]

I have a level 6 drow bard who is a dex fighter and uses weapon finesse. I was debating taking a level of fighter to get martial weapons, but not sure if it is worth it. She does a little of everything and is fairly well rounded - she can heal, throw some good CC, and fight. I am not sure what I would miss at higher levels by taking a level of something else. Rogue would have been nice for the umd and skills, but best at level 1 - too late now for that, but I could re-roll if a rogue/figher/bard makes sense

Any thoughts? Thanks!

[spifflove]

Rogue is the way to go for non war chanters.

A. You get more skill points, not less
1. Higher intel
2. Cross class not completely required, If you are willing to wait for the level up to dump points from the rogue class into spot and OL. So you will only need to cross class search and Dd.

B. Eventually you will get to cast 5th level spells.

C. You get to sell yourself as a rogue, opening up more groups. Or (as I do) form your own groups recruting 3 fighters, a cleric, and a wizard.

Rather than look at the lost bard levels, consider yourself a rogue that traded the abililty to backstab for the ability to buff the whole party, cc, and heal. Not a bad deal.

[Alavatar]

Rogue is the way to go for non war chanters.

A. You get more skill points, not less
1. Higher intel
2. Cross class not completely required, If you are willing to wait for the level up to dump points from the rogue class into spot and OL. So you will only need to cross class search and Dd.

Waiting to dump points into rogue skills until a second rogue level is taken would not work in the current iteration of the game. Since the level cap is going to increase you will still need to cross-class those skills after the level cap goes up. And if you wait until L14 (or L20 when it gets here) you would need 26 (or 38 at L20) skill points to increase spot and OL to max (from 4 to 17). So, even if you did wait you would still need to cross-class them along the way.

And you get 5th level spells at Bard L13, so if 2 rogue levels are taken (with the current level cap) spells like Otto's Dance Sphere and Greater Heroism will need to be scrolled.

[EinarMal]

Waiting to dump points into rogue skills until a second rogue level is taken would not work in the current iteration of the game. Since the level cap is going to increase you will still need to cross-class those skills after the level cap goes up. And if you wait until L14 (or L20 when it gets here) you would need 26 (or 38 at L20) skill points to increase spot and OL to max (from 4 to 17). So, even if you did wait you would still need to cross-class them along the way.

And you get 5th level spells at Bard L13, so if 2 rogue levels are taken (with the current level cap) spells like Otto's Dance Sphere and Greater Heroism will need to be scrolled.

Well it really depends on what you are after and how many rogue levels you end up taking. Somthing like 16 Bard/Rogue 4 allows you to space them out to 20. You still get GH eventually, although at the next cap Bard 13/Rogue 3 would do the trick. Scrolling greater hero isn't the end of the world. Depending on the build in most cases you are not going to be that great of a CC caster anyway so Otto's is probably a minor loss.

It is kind of a silly question (Bard or Bard/Rogue) because it totally depends on what type of character do you want to play? If you just want to disable traps then Bard 13/Rogue 1 works fine. You basically have to decide if level 5 spells > evasion at the current cap.

If you are asking which character is better a level 14 Bard or a Bard 12/Rogue 2 the answer is better at what? To me you either want to have rogues skills or you do not.

<edit> I just saw in your post disable device got a *not super important* note I would say you should go pure Bard. If you don't want the rogue only skills that much then evasion is not worth it in my opinion.

[spifflove]

Waiting to dump points into rogue skills until a second rogue level is taken would not work in the current iteration of the game. Since the level cap is going to increase you will still need to cross-class those skills after the level cap goes up. And if you wait until L14 (or L20 when it gets here) you would need 26 (or 38 at L20) skill points to increase spot and OL to max (from 4 to 17). So, even if you did wait you would still need to cross-class them along the way.

And you get 5th level spells at Bard L13, so if 2 rogue levels are taken (with the current level cap) spells like Otto's Dance Sphere and Greater Heroism will need to be scrolled.

Plan on 4 levels of rogue by level 20. It does work with a drow 16 intel or human 14 intel. Let the wizards cast greater hero and keep up the much cheaper good hope. Dance sphere is overated (because people will not bother to kite the mobs into the sphere). And you get free up that rogue slot for another fighter (But I will group with a good rogue that I know).

[Thrudh]

Decent breakdown of pros and cons...

If you stagger your rogue levels and have a high intelligence, you can keep up the trap skills (Spot, Search, Disable, Open Lock) and have skill points left over for UMD, Haggle, Perform, and maybe even a little left over for a few ranks in Tumble and Jump... You can safely fall behind a bit on Open Lock and/or Spot between rogue levels. I'm planning for a 16/4 build... Rogue level at 1,7,13,19

The truth is... Pure bards rock... Bard/Rogues also rock... They are different kinds of play-style...

My bard/rogue is mainly a support character... Buffs, a little healing, locks and traps...

I do SOME CC (with a 30 Charisma, Spell-Focus: Enchantment, Enchantment +1 DC item, and my Spell-Singer song, I can actually land the holds and dances and charms pretty well for a non-pure bard, even on elite content)

But CC is not my focus...

A pure bard will be better than me at that.. and have more spell points and access to higher level spells... I DO miss Greater Heroism (waiting patiently for the level increase)

Neither build is better or worse than the other... Both are very good...

(I DO like the fact that when a group is specifically looking for a Rogue, I fit the bill - The sad fact is, a group will take a bard/rogue over a pure rogue every single time - the combo is VERY useful)

[hazur]

Greetings,

I never really got into the whole /2 rogue thing on any character. I especially don't agree with doing it to a bard. I feel that bards should be pure, as they are a multiclass in and of themselves to an extent. If you are going to multiclass a bard, I only recommend one level. This way you still get the next tier of spells at 13. But even with 1 multiclass level you will miss out on spells in the next cap raise as far as I know.

Regards,
Booser