The NEW metamagic system

[Plynx]

While everyone wonders what you guys have in store for us, allow me to suggest the following two ideas:

- Allow metamagic to be saved with the spell when dragged to the hotbar. I'm sure this is a frequent request, so you know what I mean.

- Convert "Mass" into a free metamagic feat for all casters of appropriate level. This can take the place of some of the existing "Mass" spells that are generally +3 or +4 levels higher than the base spell.

[Knightrose]

Why don't they just make Metamagic feats action abillities you can bind to a key; like Block. This way you could simply hold down the key for which Metamagic Feat you wish to use and then press the key for the spell you want coupled with it. Once you release the metamagic-feat-key it's no longer active. Just like Block.

Or perhaps Metamagic Feats could be a screen or a 'layer' that's applied to a specific hotbar that's color coded, letting you know which spells you wish to have used with that Metamagic Feat. Perhaps even multiple layers of different Metamagic Feats could apply to the same hotbar.

Either way I think Metamagic Feats should be something more easily used and deffinitely quicker in response.

In pen & paper you decide a head of time which spells you want affected by certain feats. Or some allow you to simply choose on the spot which spells will be affected by the metamagic feats.

By the way, I've never played a caster in DDO.

[Snike]

Why don't they just make Metamagic feats action abillities you can bind to a key; like Block. This way you could simply hold down the key for which Metamagic Feat you wish to use and then press the key for the spell you want coupled with it. Once you release the metamagic-feat-key it's no longer active. Just like Block.

Great Idea.

[Gimpster]

Why don't they just make Metamagic feats action abillities you can bind to a key; like Block. This way you could simply hold down the key for which Metamagic Feat you wish to use and then press the key for the spell you want coupled with it. Once you release the metamagic-feat-key it's no longer active. Just like Block.

I'd rather hate trying to cast the classic Heightened Maximized Empowered Disintegrate with that- especially while tracking a moving target.

The A#1 thing they need to change for metamagic is remove the progress bar delay to activate the mode. Get a rogue and test out the Subtle Backstabber enhancement- notice it puts you into a special mode without ANY progress bar?

[arcane_nite]

Why don't they just make Metamagic feats action abillities you can bind to a key; like Block. This way you could simply hold down the key for which Metamagic Feat you wish to use and then press the key for the spell you want coupled with it. Once you release the metamagic-feat-key it's no longer active. Just like Block.

This idea would be awesome.

[Plynx]

I think most people would rather not have to use the vulcan death grip to cast a frequently modified spell. And using a modifier key doesn't help for the majority of spells that a caster might ALWAYS want to cast a certain way--if you ALWAYS want to cast haste extended, but your hand slips or you accidentally press the haste button slightly before the modifier? It's better just to have the haste button on your toolbar set to apply Extend Spell and no other metamagic.

If you tumble a lot like I do--and have ever stood there like an idiot shuffling your feet because the block didn't take for whatever reason, or if you've tumbled into a shield bash, you know what I mean about modifier keys.

What Gimpster says about Subtle Backstabbing is true--although I imagine there is a short delay before it becomes active, it does so without a character-stopping progress bar. I have always imagined that these progress bars are necessary for lag purposes--to give the server a reasonable amount of time to accept the stance change and make sure that the change goes off before your next action (on the internet, there is no guarantee that a packets sent from your computer arrive in the same order they were sent). But if the metamagic were saved on your hotbar with the spell, you wouldn't need the progress bar, since it would be one action.

[Gimpster]

I have always imagined that these progress bars are necessary for lag purposes--to give the server a reasonable amount of time to accept the stance change and make sure that the change goes off before your next action

Maybe that's the reason, but that's bad software design. The choice of whether or not a particular spell casting uses metamagic is a UI issue immaterial to game design, and should be completely processed on the client-side.

(on the internet, there is no guarantee that a packets sent from your computer arrive in the same order they were sent).

There is a guarantee if the programmers want there to be one. One can (and often should) implement a NAK system such that important packets are retransmitted until reliably recieved.

However, in the case of metamagics that would be overkill. There are only 6 metamagics in DDO, meaning the entire metamagic modification of a spell can be contained in a single byte attached to whatever packet directs the spell to be cast. Packets might be out of order, but you can stick another byte into a packet and feel it's reliable.

[Katianara]

I'd rather hate trying to cast the classic Heightened
The A#1 thing they need to change for metamagic is remove the progress bar delay to activate the mode.

Yeah, why in the world does that exist? Drives me nutty.

[Plynx]

There is a guarantee if the programmers want there to be one. One can (and often should) implement a NAK system such that important packets are retransmitted until reliably recieved.

I should have said "in online games, it can be difficult to make sure packets are processed in the right order without introducing latency".

But the progress bars are definitely annoying. When I saw that they were redesigning the metamagic system, naturally I thought that they were scrapping or at least providing an alternative to the toggle-stance-based approach because it's so un-fluid. But then I thought--what if they aren't? I wonder sometimes if there are things people don't post because they seem too obvious (like those Stormreaver DMText messages--maybe there weren't enough posts on the subject and the devs don't know how frequent and annoying they are on a server like Argonnessen?).

[sigtrent]

Personaly I find the existing meta-magic system to simply be a game challenge, requiring some forethough and planning. Kind of like switching weapons and what not.

In PnP you need to either plan out your meta magic (wizards and clerics) or slow your spell casting (sorcerers). I always figured the stance system was just a way to add that kind of "cost" to the ddo system forcing you to spend some time switching if you want to hot swap meta magic. AKA using some planning when accessing them or slowing you down if your doing it spontaneously.

I'd enjoy the hot bar combo thing, but I don't find the current system that hard to use.

[Lucian_Navarro]

All of this sounds interesting and I hope an improvement is found. What I have to contribute to this conversation are defined by these two spells (Haste and False Life) and the Metamagic Feat Extend.

Almost all of the time I desire to cast Haste Extended and while in combat sustaining damage I like to repeat cast False Life, but I dont need to extend it and waste the spell points.

Granted it is only 5 extra points but it would be nice to "Pre-define" some of my spell selections.

ZEIRA
"The Angry Blue Faerie"

[tekn0mage]

I just hope its not some lame, intermediary step on the way to a full metamagic fix.

<--- bookmarking this page for future "I told you so" reference

[Macrawn]

[QUOTE=sigtrent;1269392]Personaly I find the existing meta-magic system to simply be a game challenge, requiring some forethough and planning. Kind of like switching weapons and what not.

QUOTE]

I find it to be a plain annoyance not a challenge to heighten and unheighten, and so forth. It's sorta like making a crane with the controls at the top of the crane. It's a poor interface and design.

I hope they create a bar that you can pull spells you always want heightened into. That way you only have to hit the heighten icon when you heighten some spell you usually don't.

[Snike]

Get a rogue and test out the Subtle Backstabber enhancement- notice it puts you into a special mode without ANY progress bar?

Learn something new everyday, I thought that was a passive enhancement.

[ahpook]

Is any body prepared for the possibility that you will have to use spell slots for meta magics like PnP? If you want to cast a spell both extended and non extended, you need 2 spell slots to get those options in a quest (sorcerers and bards exlcuded of course).

[dameron]

I'd rather hate trying to cast the classic Heightened Maximized Empowered Disintegrate with that- especially while tracking a moving target.

Here's hoping that particular combination is impossible under the new system, since it would be a level 12 spell.

[TEK]

one way could be to utilize the spells like weapon sets allowing u to combine a spell and a metamagic feat and then drag it to ur hotbar.

[Mockduck]

Maybe they could set it up like the weapon slots? Give magic users seven slots that could be pre-programmed, where you'd drag extend and then wall of fire into a slot, and then put the combo into a hot bar? Just a thought. Edit: Oh, and TEK - jinx! Posted at the same time....

[TEK]

Maybe they could set it up like the weapon slots? Give magic users seven slots that could be pre-programmed, where you'd drag extend and then wall of fire into a slot, and then put the combo into a hot bar? Just a thought. Edit: Oh, and TEK - jinx! Posted at the same time....

yeah but my suggestion was better

[TEK]

although im not suggesting the addition of slots. im saying allow metamagic feats to be dragged in the ones we have already (i.e. the slots u drag the spells into when memming spells)

obviously something slightly differrent would have to added for bards/sorcs, but i doubt it'll be hard to do