Weekly Dev Activities: 7/30/07

[Vinos]

IMO those who do not like the new raid loot system are just suffering from one common problem in any mmo with rare loot: Greed.

In no way is this system unfair, or un-DnD. Less rewarding to greedy gamers who do raids in small groups solely for more loot? Absolutely.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Picture this scenario. You and your party of brave souls finally slay the Stormreaver who was about to destroy everything. You crack open the warded chest wondering what epic item will drop and instead you are looking at an empty chest. That is total BS. And trust me it will happen alot. This system isn't really going to encourage 12 man teams. You have a 1 in 6 chance of raid loot. Doesn't matter if you have 2 people or 12. All this system will do is discourage raids becuase without the loot what else is a capped character to do? Crafting? Whoops wrong game.

[Hendrik]

That's just it. There aren't going to be any guarantees anymore.

Sure there's no limit, but the chances are weighted differently. We will hear about zero-raid loot chests far more than we will hear about 3-4 item raid loot chests. That's a given.

Just like how we have seen people wanting a change to the Raid Loot Mechanic and it's made, then people complain about the new mechanic or want to old one back - without even trying the new system...

It's a given people will complain about anything and everything. Give them what they are asking for and then they ***** it's wrong or whatnot...

I applaud those that have divined the future to see what WILL happen. Why not put that gift to some real use...

[wemery73]

changes sound good

[Capstern]

I think there is a lot of postings abotu odds on here but I think some of the stuff you are talking is probablity and not odds


Odd wise I have a apprx 17% chance of getting a raid item every raid - period
what that item is is anyones guess

Now chance of all players getting raid and no players getting raid is a PROBABLY computation isnt it?

Since the rolls are not connected to each other you cant have an over all odds for all or nothing I dont think - I think the best you can compute is the probablities

Its like having that arguement with someone about lotto

the odds of 1, 2 ,3, 4, 5, 6 being the winning number is the SAME as any other combo of non repeating numbers

[Foenorth]

GRAAL:

Add one warded raid item to all raid chests, which works the same as the current system.

This will solve all problems with the new raid system, and will not be imbalancing. At least a party will be guaranteed ONE raid item.

Getting zero would absolutely preposterous.

Agreed

[Cutedge]

You crack open the warded chest wondering what epic item will drop and instead you are looking at an empty chest. That is total BS. And trust me it will happen alot.

Otherwise, a standard treasure from the maximum treasure table appropriate for that raid will be generated for that character.

Ok here's a new suggestion. Make it so that if you don't get epic loot, it generates loot +1 or +2 levels like on the welcome back weekends. So you have a good chance to get some stuff and maybe even epic. It's still a better chest than a normal one.

[Torosar]

The new thing for DDO seems to be promote a social experience as we have seen mentioned from the server merges and now again it comes through courtesy of this new raid loot system.

Some people really dislike the current system, but i mean as it will be from Mod 5.. the chances of you actually getting a loot you could use i am sure are no better than they were previously. Look at Stormreaver, how many tenderizers, ring of lies and bracers may you loot before you finally get those gloves your cleric is after - or in dragon.. how many rings, cloaks, docents, hammers and firestrike clickies will you get before that Sos drops for your barbarian - what about tomes, people would just eat a tome and it probably wouldn't even be a stat that helps them - imagine being a wizzy and seeing that barbarian loot a +2 int tome and use it right there rather than the glyph system where people with a use for intelligence are the ones who are to roll. At least with 2 static drops and the fact not everyone will roll on it anyway means your chances are better as it is.

You know, its fun to complete raids in smaller numbers with friends (a social experience) for a challenge - there should be no disadvantage to people opting to play like that.

While its nice to see an attempt to rethink a system that has some flaws - i do not think this makes anything better, i actually think it goes the otherway. I thought if a new system was going to be implemented, it should have some way you can have control over the actual loot you get. With the new system, you have a 1 in 6 chance to get something.. but even then.. it may not be something you can actually use.. at least the old system filtered out competition to roll through whether they can actually use it.

I think if we aren't to use the current glyph system.. a system should be made with some form of control on the loots. Maybe we have to run so many raids and then maybe a end reward type of thing where maybe a few loots are on the list and you can pick.. i dont know i just really do not think this system is ideal - i won't touch on the subject of the problems i can imagine with backalley type deals for loots and people not honouring a system that the leader puts in (for instance, leader says what ever loot we get.. we treat it like normal and those who want roll on it and it gets assigned to the winner - except a person happens to loot a chattering ring, grabs the ring and bails). Perhaps an option should be invented somehow like before you go into the raid.. where you can select whether you want to use glyph system, or use the new 1 in 6 chance.

More than anything though, i wouldn't mind knowing what the specific reasoning by the devs what the system is - is it to encourage 12 man raids? is it just so everyone can be 'equal' in terms or pulling any loot? Most raids groups aren't 12 man, so is it to decrease the amount of raid loot out there?

See you all around Stormreach, i hope your raid chests are bountiful,

Toro

[dragnmoon]

Gonna have to disagree with you there. Picture this scenario. You and your party of brave souls finally slay the Stormreaver who was about to destroy everything. You crack open the warded chest wondering what epic item will drop and instead you are looking at an empty chest. That is total BS. And trust me it will happen alot. This system isn't really going to encourage 12 man teams. You have a 1 in 6 chance of raid loot. Doesn't matter if you have 2 people or 12. All this system will do is discourage raids becuase without the loot what else is a capped character to do? Crafting? Whoops wrong game.

the Chest will never be Empty, you will always have items in the chest based on the level of the Quest, you will just not always get raid loot.

[Vinos]

the Chest will never be Empty, you will always have items in the chest based on the level of the Quest, you will just not always get raid loot.

That is silly. I didn't spend an hour to get a team together and another 1-2 hours to slay the red dragon to get +2 leather armor. People do raids for the raid loot.

[GeneralDiomedes]

Give the guaranteed item to the raid leader. It's not unprecedented, the leader has been given two raid items in every warded chest raid up until this point. Now he would only get one.

But then someone who solos it is still guaranteed to get something. I'm sure we all understand the reason behind this change?

[Qzipoun]

When I first read Quarion's post I thought the new system was a great idea. After reading people's post I realize there's lots of problems with the new implementation but I REALLY hope Turbine will listen to some suggestions and make it a little better and less problematic!

[dragnmoon]

That is silly. I didn't spend an hour to get a team together and another 1-2 hours to slay the red dragon to get +2 leather armor. People do raids for the raid loot.

Not Everyone... Some of us(like me) (I am sure it is a minority) Do raids to play a game with people you enjoy playing with.

[Coldin]

That is silly. I didn't spend an hour to get a team together and another 1-2 hours to slay the red dragon to get +2 leather armor. People do raids for the raid loot.

Oh stop exaggerating, it will be +5 leather armor of lesser sonic resistance.

[Gratch]

I'm much more in favor of raid chests giving everyone a partial raid token where 6 tokens can be traded into the quest giver to select a raid item from a list of raid items.

The current scheme reminds me more of hunting for Dragonscales... ever go 0 scales for 2 or 3 runs. How will that feel for entire groups in a raid? Though given the sometimes sticky dice in DDO... guess you could have a raid group get 4 or 5 items in a run just as much as 0. This is also a huge penalty on those of us who often run a lot less than groups of 12 in raids.

As for always getting level-appropriate items if you don't get a raid item.... most toons wouldn't use the L7 item loot (level -3) that comes out of a Velah normal raid as TP.

[Vinos]

But then someone who solos it is still guaranteed to get something. I'm sure we all understand the reason behind this change?

If someone can solo a raid this is the players fault why? Make the raid harder don't punish the players who can accomplish great things. This system takes all the fun out of raiding. I love the rush of seeing what 2 items will drop and the excitement of rolling for stuff. Now they are turning raids into 1 chest scale runs that can only be done every 3 days. This new system encourages greed. Let's say my Barb who just raided the reaver has a +3 CHA tome in the chest. Will I roll on that? Nope. Now make that +3 CHA tome assigned to me and now I OWN something that some people will want VERY badly. While I would be happy to not roll on it I would be even happier trading that tome for multiple uber items. Way to make it fun Turbine. Turn the raid loot into an hour long trading session.

[GeneralDiomedes]

GRAAL:

Add one warded raid item to all raid chests, which works the same as the current system.

This will solve all problems with the new raid system, and will not be imbalancing. At least a party will be guaranteed ONE raid item.

Getting zero would absolutely preposterous.

When you lower the odds .. addicted gamblers will actually gamble more, not less

[Vinos]

Not Everyone... Some of us(like me) (I am sure it is a minority) Do raids to play a game with people you enjoy playing with.

You're right not everyone. But I don't need to go through VoN5-6 or twiglight forge to have fun with my buddies either.

[Vinos]

Oh stop exaggerating, it will be +5 leather armor of lesser sonic resistance.

Actually Velah would hook us up with +4 leather armor.

[Kethir]

The raid change? Meh. My guild doesn't raid anyway, and I don't really life raids either. This will help kill off raiding - which is not a bad thing, for me. For those who like to raid? I guess they should quit. Turbine has spoken.

I love the changes to metamagic. This combined with the changes to end rewards mean I will pretty much only play my sorcerer. Which is my natural preference, if it weren't for loot.

Bring on the 6 sorc parties!

[tekn0mage]

You're right not everyone. But I don't need to go through VoN5-6 or twiglight forge to have fun with my buddies either.

QFT!!!!11one!one1eleven