Regardless, thanks for listening.Originally Posted by Graal
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Thread: Weekly Dev Activities: 7/30/07
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08-01-2007, 11:02 PM #461Community Member
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I drink harder than you, ride harder than you and if I have spare time I might just play this game too.
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08-01-2007, 11:04 PM #462Founder
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Wow, I'm on a ROLL today, i think that's the third Dev response I've gotten Originally Posted by Graal
I guess If I just keep spewing out stuff, EVENTUALLY I may have a good idea that sticks lol
Don't know about everyone else, but I'd be perfectly fine if this made it in 5.1. Who knows, maybe with the release of Mod 5, they may see that the raids may still not be played all that much and a 1/6, 1/4, 1/2 ratio may not be that devestating
(one can hope...)
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08-01-2007, 11:25 PM #463Community Member
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That's pretty much my record with the current system. Originally Posted by Snike
I have only gotten to even roll ONCE in all the times I've run raids. Whatever class I'm playing is guarenteed to not be the class the group leader feels can benefit from whatever is dropping.
At least under the new system I'll have a 1/6 chance of getting something I can use...or trade. Much much better.
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08-01-2007, 11:42 PM #464Community Member
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I just wish the raid loot was worth the effort spent to get it.
I'd prefer to see a system where you were 1 in 20 to get a token that binds and can't be reassinged, that can be exhanged for the piece of loot of your choice.
That would solve need before greed and people who solo quests then advertise "I'm looking at the (insert Reaver Loot here), make me an offer".
It would also help to keep Raid Loot rare, as it should be.
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08-01-2007, 11:44 PM #465Stormreach Mentor
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So this begs the question then. Originally Posted by loki523
Does this mean there is a hidden requirement. YOu have to have at least 6 people for the chest to drop raid loot?
And only with 12 will you get two pieces.
Thats what I am starting to see.Who's the more foolish, the fool or the one who sends it a res.
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08-01-2007, 11:48 PM #466Hatchery Founder
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Best to stop this rumor right here. No, that is not how it will work. When the chest is generated, and it's loot, everyone will have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a raid item. That means you could have 0 raid loot (which is what everyone is complaining about) or even 12 pieces raid loot (though that is highly unlikely). Originally Posted by ccheath776
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08-01-2007, 11:51 PM #467Founder
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They could make it more secure to trade bound loot by making it bound on leaving instant instead of on acquire. You could loot the bound item and safely trade it with another while still in the instant. Once someone with a bound item leaves the instant it then would be bound to the character.
They could further make it so you could only trade it to someone that was one a list of the raid when the chest was created so someone couldn't enter later and trade for the item.I reject your reality and substitute my own reality.
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08-02-2007, 12:01 AM #468Stormreach Mentor
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Trying not to start rumors and I would be more than happy if that were the case. Originally Posted by Coldin
But can a dev put this to rest? Has one put this to rest?
Sorry to start bad rumors but it would not be the first time turbine tried to pull a fast one on us in an effort to prevent soloing raids and to stop goldfarmers. this would certainly be a way to do it.
Require 6 for raid loot to drop and 12 for more than one piece to drop.
I would hate that and I eriously doubt its true but if you think about it. This may be the case and they have not said so. However, I am probably wrong and there is nothing to worry about.Who's the more foolish, the fool or the one who sends it a res.
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08-02-2007, 12:05 AM #469Community Member
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Originally Posted by ccheath776
Think Dragon scale run but you can only do it every 3 days. That is what the new system will be.
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08-02-2007, 12:21 AM #470Stormreach Mentor
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I think in the end I dont think this is true. each player has a 1 in 6 chance regardless of how many are inthe raid.
Who's the more foolish, the fool or the one who sends it a res.
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08-02-2007, 02:13 AM #471Community Member
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OK 1/6 chance of getting something. Originally Posted by Lorien the First One
Perhaps you get something you can use, and everything is fine in the world.
But if you don't get something you can use, or it would not be optimal for you... what value are you going to put on a +3 tome in a stat you don't need? What value are you going to put on, say a chattering ring, when you already have one?
In a guild situation this matters little... but in a PUG, you bet there's going to be problems with this solution. You're also going to have to trust the person to deliver when you give him the item... remember it has to be done right there in the chest and it binds... there is no way to take the item out and do a proper trade window.
It sounds like this will be the only option... I'm not sure why they didn't add this as an additional raid option. Then you could have leader wards, random wards, and random loot, and the party leader can choose the type of raid.Last edited by Riddikulus; 08-02-2007 at 02:19 AM.
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08-02-2007, 02:18 AM #472Community Member
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I'm stil wondering if the designers considered the impact the new metamagic system (Extend Spell) will have on Paladins and Rangers.
Will we even get a free Dragonshard to respec it out chez Frederic?
The matter is of course being overwhelmed by the proposed raid loot changes but I feel it's important not to forget about this.
gpk
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08-02-2007, 02:59 AM #473Community Member
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um no
That is wrong as proven by this: Originally Posted by MysticTheurge
Originally Posted by Tija
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08-02-2007, 03:15 AM #474Founder
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Originally Posted by Gol
Velah is nowhere near impossible on elite. With 12 L14 characters Velah should be EASY even on elite. impossible for you does not mean impossible. That would be like me claiming that running a 6 minute mile is impossible. I've tried and never succeeded, that doesn't make it even close to almost impossible.
I think that better percentages on loot for raids are only acceptable in situations where the raids are dramatically more difficult on elite. This is not in fact the case with most raids. It is in fact no more difficult to do the Titan on elite than on normal in my opinion, whereas the dragon is moderately more difficult on elite. I would like to see elite become more difficult if an increase to loot probability on elite is made.
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08-02-2007, 03:46 AM #475Community Member
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hmm
The previous post was just to show ignorance towards the facts. I will not pretend to me a math wiz, I am in fact a History major destined to write a book that gathers dust in a public library. So I guess I will offer a historical perspective. But I do warn those to say that this historical perspective is mine and others pov may vary.
The institution of the glyph system began in mod 1. It was originally hailed with some anger and distrust. Some felt that the offer of raid loot was too little others worried about uncouth players thistling (ninja) the raid loot form all party members. This actually has happened on some occasions. In general though we moved past it.
After Velah came the Titan followed by the Demon Queen and then The Reaver. All of these quests proved to have their difficulties (ie Titan). We still moved past them.
The calls for a change in the loot mechanic continued but with less support. We as players had learned to live with the system in place and had very little bad to say about it except for the occasional Jungle Cloak. Many guilds had developed means to divide the random dropping loot up and now we find raid loot in abundance on all us full time players (read no lives).
The current system that is to be done away with is in no way flawed, except for the fact we don't get what we want most of the time. This would probably be considered a player flaw and not the quest's flaw.
Now with that said I will say another thing I am in a small guild there are currently 4 of us with a 5th that shows occasionally. We are very tight and have managed to complete the raids with very little outside help beyond the accompaniment of a few close friends form other guilds. Needless to say we often do raids with 6 or less sometimes 4 and 3 people. Now with the current system that is great not only do we function well together we get more of the loot to split around and laugh at when another Ring of Lies drops (if anyone considers this leet loot please read what it does again, their are many more like it).
With the proposed change in looting I see only bad things coming. I kind of get the feeling thats it not about fairness to the puggers out there. It seems to be an attempt to slow the raid loot distribution. There is nothing really wrong with that idea but thats what it seems like to me.
What bothers me is the apparent punishment I am getting for belonging to a small guild. Is Turbine saying I need to join a bigger one to take full advantage of what they have instituted, I hope not. I play how I want to not how I am told, it is no longer play when that happens.
That said the idea of no loot dropping as being possible is insane. I am an adventurer, I am going to save the princess, I am slaying the evil dragon, I am delving into the darkest dungeon. At the end of the day I would appreciate being rewarded its part of D&D, those that have played pnp understand that. Now if you want to try something new great I am all for experimenting. But there seems to have been no experimenting.
The devs could have offered the chance for us to try it and not on risia with our low level guys but on the servers it self. We could have had the option to change the loot ability before quest then sent feedback, told them what we thought.
In closing I understand the reasoning for a change such as this even if its not said out loud. I just find the implementation to be bad and possibly disasterish for the community. Also it will do nothing to help it either. Groups will still form the same way and pugs will have a hard time doing what uber players do on a whim. In the end we will all just have less loot and maybe thats the intention.
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08-02-2007, 04:30 AM #476Community Member
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That said the idea of no loot dropping as being possible is insane. I am an adventurer, I am going to save the princess, I am slaying the evil dragon, I am delving into the darkest dungeon. At the end of the day I would appreciate being rewarded its part of D&D, those that have played pnp understand that. - Serpent
Actually, there's more loot than before. It's just that the Raid Loot is now being treated the same as named items in other chests except they bind. Making them rare and valuable. Something that the game needs.
The current system makes Raid Loot common.
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08-02-2007, 05:56 AM #477Community Member
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Ummmm ok but how is this going to change that there are only 4 soon to be five major raids in the game. People will most likely run them alot and that seems to be why most nonguilded people seem happy about the change. But if what advocates to the change say is true then how does that equate to less raid loot overall? This really isnt about making raid loot more available to the masses as it seems to be about making you timesink the raids. Originally Posted by Yabba
Personally I feel that noone should worry about what somebody loots because no matter what it is chances are someone else has looted better.Halflings Rule
and never irritate anyone that can cast dispell
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08-02-2007, 07:28 AM #478Stormreach Advisor
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The post you quote does not prove it wrong. Originally Posted by Serpent
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08-02-2007, 07:31 AM #479Stormreach Advisor
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Am I the only one not liking this idea? We already need to do all loot-heavy "normal" quests on elite, now we're going to have to do raids too on the most boring difficulty setting? Originally Posted by Graal
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08-02-2007, 07:43 AM #480Founder
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Drop rates
1/6, 1/5, 1/4 ...still too low really.
Considering that currently, assuming you are looking for a specific item...the chance out of say 10 named items, and 1-2 tomes, is 1 in 6.
That is two chances of 1/12 for an item dropping, then you have to roll for it, or if its a smaller group, and the item is class based, chances are pretty decent you will get it, or at least be no more than three people rolling on the same item say. So at worst your looking at a 1/18 chance on nay given raid of getting an item you want.
The new system will mean you have a 1 in 60 chance. 1/6 chance to drop, no effect from other people rolling (unless you have a way to influence other people - like say being a guild leader to threatens to boot anyone who doesnt give him their raid loot, or people willing to share). 11 possible items, times 1/6 is actually 1 in 66 chance of getting something you want.
So currently the odds of getting something have gone down by an order of magnitude. the onyl way the oddds would get slightly better, would be if you were on a 12 person raid, and EVERY single person was willing to give you the item you were looking for if it dropped, and even then the odds only go up to 1 in 5 or so.
Many people dont bother raiding now because the odds are already low they will ever get something. The chance for eveyrone to get somethign now is a huge change for the good....BUT also lowering the odds of a drop by such an order of magnitude means that many people (and we know how the dice can be in this game) will run a raid 30 times and never see a single item, never mind the one they might be looking for.
To make the odds equal to what they are now, the rate would have to be 1/3 at least. And changing it based on setting would be a good option. So hard is 1 in 2, and elite is 100% chance that your chest drops some kind of raid item.
Really - if you do a raid on elite, why would it be so bad to get a single named item from that?
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