Weekly Dev Activities: 7/30/07

[Coldin]

Honestly. Stop it with this. It's just not true.

Different people like different things and therefore will have different experiences with what's fun and what's not, including the size of the party.

You don't like parties over 4-6. But that doesn't mean it's a bad way to play, invalid, or shouldn't be encouraged in raids which are designed to allow 12 person parties.

You're not making arguments against the new loot system, you're making arguments against there even being raid quests.

To add to MysticTheurge, I know of DMs that prefer to have 8+ players for a DnD session. I personally feel 4-5 players is ideal, but then again, I haven't had much experience with larger groups.

[Gimpster]

Honestly. Stop it with this. It's just not true.

If you would care to attempt a refutation of that opinion, you can go back and respond to any of the numerous places where I justified it.

Additionally, examples of your own experiences raiding in groups of 6+ would go a long way towards dispelling the impression that your position is grounded in ignorance.

[Aspenor]

If you are right Aspenor, then the chest is spawned when the first person enters the raid and it would therefore only have 1 piece of loot in it.

Vordax

Not exactly. The chest checks how many people and whom are in your party, and their loot is spawned.

[MysticTheurge]

But from the perspective of the other 7 existing members of the party, adding those new characters will increase the number of drops that may go to them, and at net more than they increase contention.

Do show this one as well. Because it seems to me that adding a person really increases the general contention for items at the same rate that it increases the chance that an item will drop.

X number of people means an X in 6 chance of an item dropping and a 1 in X chance that the item will go to any given person.

If you get down to the specifics of different items and not everyone being interested in the same items, then that math varies a lot, but then you get to my previous example.

[MysticTheurge]

If you would care to attempt a refutation of that opinion, you can go back and respond to any of the numerous places where I justified it.

There's nothing to respond to. You simply cannot speak for everyone's opinion of what's fun and what's not, despite you're best attempts to do just that.

You don't like larger groups. Some people do. But raids are meant for larger groups.

Recognizing that your opinion isn't necessarily one that everyone else shares would go a long way towards dispelling the impression that your positions are grounded in elitist selfishness.

Additionally, examples of your own experiences raiding in groups of 6+ would go a long way towards dispelling the impression that your position is grounded in ignorance.

Whether I enjoy larger groups either is really irrelevant, but the truth is that every single raid I've ever been on had 12 people. Even when we didn't have 12 guild members to take, we added pug people.

[Ziggy]

testing something here.... dont mind me.

[rfachini]

So does this mean that we may eventually get quivers that will hold arrows, bolts, and the like, rather then filling pages with ammo?

Sheer Genius.

[Coldin]

testing something here.... dont mind me.

You trying to delete posts again Ziggy?

[Ziggy]

You trying to delete posts again Ziggy?

i wasnt until you said something.

[Gimpster]

Recognizing that your opinion isn't necessarily one that everyone else shares would go a long way towards dispelling the impression that your positions are grounded in elitist selfishness.

That hypocrisy is almost too thick to cut.

Stipulating for the sake of argument that 12-man groups can be as much fun in general as 6-man groups, it is YOU who are trying to be selfish by denying players who enjoy a friendly 6-man party the maximal chance at loot unless they pad it out with lootbots.

[Gimpster]

Do show this one as well. Because it seems to me that adding a person really increases the general contention for items at the same rate that it increases the chance that an item will drop.

1. Each additional player increases the drop rate by a fixed 16% chance. That never changes.
2. Each additional player increases the contention rate by a variable amount depending on which items they need and already have, which can equal but never exceed the amount by which they raise the drop rate.

As time goes by and player characters start to accumulate raid loot, the amount of contention they bring to the group sinks, but they always contribute the same to the drop rate.

[tekn0mage]

Boy Turbine, don't rush in here to say anything... just let everyone go at it.

I suppose we can expect a round of infractions to be dished out at some point, thread locked and closed, and then they just continue with the proposed changes without ever commenting on it.

Wouldn't put it passed ya...

[Aspenor]

Boy Turbine, don't rush in here to say anything... just let everyone go at it.

I suppose we can expect a round of infractions to be dished out at some point, thread locked and closed, and then they just continue with the proposed changes without ever commenting on it.

Wouldn't put it passed ya...

For the most part this has been a calm and congenial discussion. Turbine prefers the role as informed observer, rather than participant.

[tekn0mage]

On a side note, at least the thread about Gem / Collectibles gets attention

[Coldin]

On a side note, at least the thread about Gem / Collectibles gets attention

Well that's because the gem and collectibles bags are awesome!

But really, there's not much more a dev can say here. They already answered all the question that have been asked. And the community seems split about the new mechanic, so don't expect it to change to anything else anytime soon.

[Gimpster]

But really, there's not much more a dev can say here. They already answered all the question that have been asked. And the community seems split about the new mechanic, so don't expect it to change to anything else anytime soon.

Right, a developer would not be typically advised to get into a discussion like this unless there were questions of fact to be addressed (such as if some people were consistently misunderstanding how the system is intended to function).

Since there is clearly a lot of resistance to the change, the only thing they can do is reconsider their position and announce it, or compose an eloquent justification of why the change would actually be an improvement. Either of those activities would be the work of several days, and nothing would be gained by them rushing into it.

In particular, if they jump in and start defending it but wind up later bowing to unpopularity and changing it to something else, they just look uncertain and pliable. No reason to make that impression.

[PurdueDave]

Very nice list, Q. Seriously.

[Vordax]

Not exactly. The chest checks how many people and whom are in your party, and their loot is spawned.

If this is the case then you can not wait in the entrance hall in the reaver raid waiting for all your party members to be added. Be sure to have the entire party formed before entering the instance.

Vordax

[Aspenor]

If this is the case then you can not wait in the entrance hall in the reaver raid waiting for all your party members to be added. Be sure to have the entire party formed before entering the instance.

Vordax

That would be my general suggestion, yes.

[dragonofsteel2]

The change promotes raid pugging. Which means you should be able to get into more of them.

Good news.

This were or totaly wrong i will not bring a pug in that does not follow the guild rules of loot. Now that loot can go right into the pugs chest this makes major problem if loot something say like +6 int cloack and he a fighter wants the caster to trade for the item. Sorry no i did not teach a pug was not needed to beat the raid for him take peice loot offer trades to caster. This system is messed up i will never invite pugs under it. I will have to raid with people i know trust worthy to trade loot binds to the classes the need.