The Solution!!!

[joker965]

I want this game to survive as much as anyone but the problem is this:

If the game is changed so much to "survive" that it essentially becomes a different game then I won't care if it survives anyway because I won't be playing anymore.

If you really like DDO you wouldn't possibly suggest that it get turned into a PVP good vs. evil game.

It wouldn't be the same game.

[Ziggy]

I want this game to survive as much as anyone but the problem is this:

If the game is changed so much to "survive" that it essentially becomes a different game then I won't care if it survives anyway because I won't be playing anymore.

If you really like DDO you wouldn't possibly suggest that it get turned into a PVP good vs. evil game.

It wouldn't be the same game.

well said joker.

If i wanted to play a Good vs evil game id go back to CoH/CoV.

[Chandeth]

I know DDO has lost players over its lifespan. I've done my part to reverse that trend and recruited 6 friends to play DDO. I play DDO for two reasons: it's as close to DnD as currently possible in a MMORG and it isn't WoW or CoH/CoV or LOTR or any other game. DDO stands by itself; it is unique. Those other games don't appeal to me in the least.

If DDO changes in the way that the OP described, I'll likely be canceling my account. If I cancel my account then my circle of friends who've joined me in Stormreach will also likely cancel their accounts. Which would be a shame because there are another 3 or 4 members of our PnP DnD group that are considering joining DDO because we're here and because it isn't any of these other games.

I'm not opposed to new ideas. As a software developer new ideas are essential. In the software development cycle you have to understand the ramifications of changes to the feature set of your application or service. Some changes will cause paying customers to stop using your product. Those same changes may or may not gain you any new customers or subscribers. If you implement the changes and you lose customers without gaining new customers is it really worth it?

[Vi'Aed]

What the Op is describing is a whole different game. Not necessarily a bad game, but not Stormreach. Maybe DDO2 is such a thing were ever to come to pass.

What this game needs is to maintain and augment its quality in its current vision. It is a niche game, for better or worse, the issue now is maintaining that niche.

I hope only that they continue adding content and making improvements in line with what the currently are doing. I think they have a good feel for maintaining the game, while I don't always agree with their decisions, so please... no major direction shifts. JMHO

[Raithe]

it's as close to DnD as currently possible in a MMORG...

Did you really just say that? I hope it's just an optical illusion...

If DDO changes in the way that the OP described, I'll likely be canceling my account.

It's pretty natural that those who are still playing and paying are somewhat happy with the game. I wouldn't crow about it though. It is obvious to everyone that the people who remain are in the significant minority when compared to those that have tried the game out but decided not to keep playing it for whatever reason.

Using such an ultimatum at this point is a complete joke.

[Vi'Aed]

It's pretty natural that those who are still playing and paying are somewhat happy with the game. I wouldn't crow about it though. It is obvious to everyone that the people who remain are in the significant minority when compared to those that have tried the game out but decided not to keep playing it for whatever reason.

Using such an ultimatum at this point is a complete joke.

The people that have tried any game and didn't continue playing are in the significant minority. And teh poster saying he'd cancel is not an ultimatum, it is just someone saying he doesn't want to play the game the Op is describing. If folks want to play that game there are numerous variants out there.

Making a major direction shift to an existing product is never a good idea. You will lose a sizable portion of your existing userbase and are unlikely to replace them with an equal amount of new subscribers. If you want a new direction, you need to develope a new game.

[Raithe]

Making a major direction shift to an existing product is never a good idea. You will lose a sizable portion of your existing userbase and are unlikely to replace them with an equal amount of new subscribers. If you want a new direction, you need to develope a new game.

This is mostly untrue, especially for an MMO. In developing Warhammer Online, I doubt Mythic started development completely from scratch (they produced Dark Age of Camelot). When people talk about Ultima Online, they continually use the term "pretrammel," which is talking about the game before they added non-PvP facets to each shard. I also take it that Stars Wars Galaxies went through a monumental change that wound up costing them a lot of subscribers (though it could have gone the other way... the point remains).

To many D&Ders, myself included, DDO has seemed to be lacking nearly complete functionallity ever since release. At release, there was 1 raid (Tempest Spine), no favor, no auction house, no PvP, no mailing system, nothing but linear quests that could really only be roleplayed once. We've hung around because we like the artwork and character design and we were waiting to figure out what the actual game would end up being. We are more than just a little surprised that the emperor with no clothes likes being naked.

DDO needs to "change" their game structure because their current one is basically nonexistent.

[joker965]

This is mostly untrue, especially for an MMO. In developing Warhammer Online, I doubt Mythic started development completely from scratch (they produced Dark Age of Camelot). When people talk about Ultima Online, they continually use the term "pretrammel," which is talking about the game before they added non-PvP facets to each shard. I also take it that Stars Wars Galaxies went through a monumental change that wound up costing them a lot of subscribers (though it could have gone the other way... the point remains).

To many D&Ders, myself included, DDO has seemed to be lacking nearly complete functionallity ever since release. At release, there was 1 raid (Tempest Spine), no favor, no auction house, no PvP, no mailing system, nothing but linear quests that could really only be roleplayed once. We've hung around because we like the artwork and character design and we were waiting to figure out what the actual game would end up being. We are more than just a little surprised that the emperor with no clothes likes being naked.

DDO needs to "change" their game structure because their current one is basically nonexistent.

I really don't understand your viewpoint. I've played the "complete" MMORPGs. What roleplaying are you talking about? As far as I'm concerned almost everything in these games was like doing the same **** over and over with different paint thrown on the walls.

Are you asking for the "end game"? In D&D there is basically no "end game". It is about the journey and not the destination.

[Raithe]

I really don't understand your viewpoint. I've played the "complete" MMORPGs. What roleplaying are you talking about? As far as I'm concerned almost everything in these games was like doing the same **** over and over with different paint thrown on the walls.

Other games have entire servers devoted solely to roleplaying. That seems to suggest to me that there are enough people involved to warrant it. DDO has some unofficial servers, one of which is the server I use most, but the distractions caused by non-rpers and unidimensional gameplay are not beneficial to roleplaying at all.

Are you asking for the "end game"? In D&D there is basically no "end game". It is about the journey and not the destination.

This is a confusing statement, cause "being about the journey" and "end game" are nearly synonymous. In other games, the core game is about gaining levels and garnering items... the "destinations." At end game this turns into just playing because you like to play... the "journey." The journey is what is missing from DDO. All we have are some repetitive quests (a broken record does not constitute a decent song) and levels/loot (destinational things).

[joker965]

Other games have entire servers devoted solely to roleplaying. That seems to suggest to me that there are enough people involved to warrant it. DDO has soom unofficial servers, one of which is the server I use most, but the distractions caused by non-rpers and unidimensional gameplay are not beneficial to roleplaying at all.



This is a confusing statement, cause "being about the journey" and "end game" are nearly synonymous. In other games, the core game is about gaining levels and garnering items... the "destinations." At end game this turns into just playing because you like to play... the "journey." The journey is what is missing from DDO. All we have are some repetitive quests (a broken record does not constitute a decent song) and levels/loot (destinational things).

What would be better than the "repetitive quests"? What do you want to do that you can't do?

BTW if the "core game" is about the crazy repetitive grind to get max level in those other games then they are worse than I even think they are.

[Raithe]

What would be better than the "repetitive quests"? What do you want to do that you can't do?

I should make note that Turbine creating a new quest for a new module or update does not really make it that much less repetitive. All these quests (new and old) contain:

1) The same monster intelligence. They don't really have "dumb" monsters or "smart" ones, everything is filtered through the same or similar AI channels.

2) A complete lack of NPC personality. I read the static texts once and once only, and it feels like they were all written by the same author.

3) Predictable quest design. Almost every single quest the developers have produced has monsters behind a door. I've noticed many casters just automatically solid fog doors, even the minority that don't have mobs behind them. Other predictable traits also exist and are numerous.

I'm not going to bother answering what I would have them add to the game. Anyone can click on my name, go to "find all posts by Raithe," and read. My ideas (and the ones I have stolen from other posters) are not what is important anyway. What's important are the ideas that Turbine has for the game... which they are either keeping secret (highly doubtful) or they don't have any.

Which is why I'll be switching MMOs at the first possible release date.