New Difficulty Level = Content?

[Jamz]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

The biggest problem I hear is the lack of content. For the "casual" player this isn't a problem usually. It seems to be a problem for the Hard Core players.

Therefore, "Hardcore" content needs to be available, no? Adding a quest here and there has only kept the casual player happy. The hardcore player rips through those new quests, usually straight to elite, and have everything ransacked by weeks end, leaving them waiting a couple of months for new content to experience.

So here's a simple(?) idea. Add a new level difficulty: Hardcore. (So you now have Solo, Normal, Hard, Elite, Hardcore).

What is Hardcore? My thoughts were either the mobs go up another notch, or you keep it the same as Elite and remove Raise Dead/Resurrections. Maybe even remove all the shrines or at least remove the resurrection shrines. Maybe on death, you get booted or your stone get teleported to a jail cell.

Basically, HardCore tests your skills to the max to see if a party can complete the quest without any deaths.

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

This would instantly "add" a hundred new quests to play and at least a dozen or more at the end game.

Lets face it, the hard core player already rips through any quest out there. Why not add an "insanely difficult" level to the quests because frankly, elite is "meh".

Thoughts?

[Edgarius]

Casual players incoming~~~

[Mercules]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

The biggest problem I hear is the lack of content. For the "casual" player this isn't a problem usually. It seems to be a problem for the Hard Core players.

Therefore, "Hardcore" content needs to be available, no? Adding a quest here and there has only kept the casual player happy. The hardcore player rips through those new quests, usually straight to elite, and have everything ransacked by weeks end, leaving them waiting a couple of months for new content to experience.

So here's a simple(?) idea. Add a new level difficulty: Hardcore. (So you now have Solo, Normal, Hard, Elite, Hardcore).

What is Hardcore? My thoughts were either the mobs go up another notch, or you keep it the same as Elite and remove Raise Dead/Resurrections. Maybe even remove all the shrines or at least remove the resurrection shrines. Maybe on death, you get booted or your stone get teleported to a jail cell.

Basically, HardCore tests your skills to the max to see if a party can complete the quest without any deaths.

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

This would instantly "add" a hundred new quests to play and at least a dozen or more at the end game.

Lets face it, the hard core player already rips through any quest out there. Why not add an "insanely difficult" level to the quests because frankly, elite is "meh".

Thoughts?

Or you could sell all your paralyzers, vorpals, something burst of pure good, +6 stat items, Raid level gear and etc. to the nearest bartender not take any wands, potions, or scrolls on the quest and do a level 14 quest on normal with +1 gear, and limited consumables. Wow... quest suddenly plays a whole lot different, doesn't it. We don't need more content, we need less "Hauls of Monty".

[Bamff]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

The biggest problem I hear is the lack of content. For the "casual" player this isn't a problem usually. It seems to be a problem for the Hard Core players.

Therefore, "Hardcore" content needs to be available, no? Adding a quest here and there has only kept the casual player happy. The hardcore player rips through those new quests, usually straight to elite, and have everything ransacked by weeks end, leaving them waiting a couple of months for new content to experience.

So here's a simple(?) idea. Add a new level difficulty: Hardcore. (So you now have Solo, Normal, Hard, Elite, Hardcore).

What is Hardcore? My thoughts were either the mobs go up another notch, or you keep it the same as Elite and remove Raise Dead/Resurrections. Maybe even remove all the shrines or at least remove the resurrection shrines. Maybe on death, you get booted or your stone get teleported to a jail cell.

Basically, HardCore tests your skills to the max to see if a party can complete the quest without any deaths.

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

This would instantly "add" a hundred new quests to play and at least a dozen or more at the end game.

Lets face it, the hard core player already rips through any quest out there. Why not add an "insanely difficult" level to the quests because frankly, elite is "meh".

Thoughts?

This is nice, I like this idea... But are there enough high level 'adventures' to keep the hardcore happy (with the new hardcore level)? I'm not high level so I don't know, but as an example to stretch the point, adding another difficulty when there's only one high level adventure isn't going to do much.

On a side note, kinda, semi, sort of related:
I don't know if any of the high level players have really looked at this but in order to keep the high level people happy (about content), Turbine would have to come out with a whole new pay expansion (for the content), that's at least as big as the original game (content). Adding a new adventure here and there for the high level players will be burnt through in weeks or less and the complaining will start all over again.

I don't think anything short of a full expansion will keep them truly happy. BUT, that means something else will suffer.

[RobbinB]

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

Overall I must say that I like your idea about a hardcore difficulty setting. Most of the rpg games I played in the past I would try to play with no deaths provided that was in anyway realistically possible. I'm a little concerned about adding that level to the existing favor system though. As it is, one must complete a quest 3 times (or have someone who can open it) if you want to get maximum favor to go for the extra rewards. I wouldn't want to see this upped to 4 times. So either the hardcore mode just gives you better loot but no additional favor than elite OR you can attempt hardcore difficulty anytime you like OR the hardcore favor is tabulated separately and not part of the existing total favor (hence players ignoring hardcore setting don't lose out as far as the existing favor system is concerned). I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "a third tier of favor rewards" or not?

What I would like to see them do is actually introduce a true solo mode. The existing solo difficulty is really just an "easy" difficulty hence one person can run a quest at the indicated level, but at the cost of any reasonable xp and loot. What I would like to see is the possibility of true solo play, ie. allowing a person to NEVER group and actually be able to level up at a reasonable rate and get reasonable loot and favor. Put it on a separate server if you like (or not, I dont care), maybe allow class specific solo quests to replace the raids (and/or pre-raid chain quests), which might become the only quests strictly reserved for groups only.

Anyway, you asked for thoughts and those are mine.

[Pharaz]

How about making adventures that currently have solo also have hardcore.

• Hardcore would be solo only.
• Require you to have completed elite.
• A new favor type 'Hardcore' could be added to the list of types of favor.

To complete a quest on hardcore you have to do so without dying. Death would not just end it but reset it. No 5 minute window to get back and continue.

[Ghoste]

That is an assumption that a server merge means fewer ppl are playing the game. It's an assumption I've seen over and over reading the forums today.

If by that you mean "less than Turbine expected to be playing by this date when they released the game", then ok, that makes sense. But to declare that the only possible reason for it is a diminishing population is, IMO, a very hasty declaration.

The devs havent released the server pop statistics, so I know you dont know that. On the other hand, a forum member has been doing regular pop censuses. As a result of people finding out which servers are more populated, we have seen a noticeable migration of people to those servers, as well as more new players starting on those servers. In other words, a shift in population and not a decline. Players have been saying for a long time that they want to see servers merged. Not all have agreed, but many have asked for it, and many of those who have asked for it have put the pressure on by moving to other servers.

[Impaqt]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

Thoughts?

Really?

While you might be correct, it could also me they have upgraded thioer servers to a point that the original "Limit" No Longer applies.

Its a lot easier to maintain 5 servers than it is 12...

Argonessa certainly doesnt have a Population problem.. and I've never considered Thelanis to be lacking players.....

Guess I gotta get used to the Conspiracy theorys that are going to be flying around the next week or so.

[Sue_Dark]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

The biggest problem I hear is the lack of content. For the "casual" player this isn't a problem usually. It seems to be a problem for the Hard Core players.

Therefore, "Hardcore" content needs to be available, no? Adding a quest here and there has only kept the casual player happy. The hardcore player rips through those new quests, usually straight to elite, and have everything ransacked by weeks end, leaving them waiting a couple of months for new content to experience.

So here's a simple(?) idea. Add a new level difficulty: Hardcore. (So you now have Solo, Normal, Hard, Elite, Hardcore).

What is Hardcore? My thoughts were either the mobs go up another notch, or you keep it the same as Elite and remove Raise Dead/Resurrections. Maybe even remove all the shrines or at least remove the resurrection shrines. Maybe on death, you get booted or your stone get teleported to a jail cell.

Basically, HardCore tests your skills to the max to see if a party can complete the quest without any deaths.

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

This would instantly "add" a hundred new quests to play and at least a dozen or more at the end game.

Lets face it, the hard core player already rips through any quest out there. Why not add an "insanely difficult" level to the quests because frankly, elite is "meh".

Thoughts?

I'd agree with this with one minor change.... dont up the loot. Make it a one shot deal. You get one shot at any given dungeon on hardcore, succede and you get separate favor for the hardcore level. Fail and you get locked out of hardcore for that instance permanently on that character.

The hardcore favor should be more about bragging rights than anything else, so pick a statue, and when they get their favor they get their name on the statue.

If you are able to recall out all you want and re-use rez shrines and all that rot, its not exactly hardcore now, is it? Recall = failure for whole party. Lets make things interesting... Single use shrines and failure = lockout of difficulty level for that character. So, if you go in and make it 10 steps and wipe, you are not fit for the place and dont get to go back on those characters. Make the traps seriously hurtful, so people doing these will think 2 or 3x before hopping thru w/out a disable. Increase the mob strength a little bit, but increase their numbers by 50-75%, more mini-bosses (not necessarily more chests tho), and an entourage with the final boss (ala Proof..Poison, like that final fight).

In other words, if you are gonna make a seriously hardcore difficulty setting, it needs to be seriously hardcore and not allow failure to be rewarded thru repeated effort. (Be glad they didnt turn on the old hardcore diablo2 rules, hehe)

[Beherit_Baphomar]

Blah!

New quests or difficulties are not the issue.

The issue is there are no timesinks. There is no crafting, nothing for people to do to just waste time.

We have running favor, loot and XP. They all involve running quests. Quests which the 'leet' have ran countless times already.

The amount of quests, the amount of loot, the levels we have - none of these are the problem.

The leet need something where they can log on for six hours, not run a single quest and when they log off they feel they have accomplished something. Like crafting. Running quests is fine and dandy, but timesinks...something that makes the game seem real-life to those who are bored, is what we need.

[blakbyrd]

I would not be opposed to the "hardcore" difficulty option. Even in how you state doing it (mainly either harder mobs or removal of all shrines, etc). Even upping the loot would be fine (which goes with the way it is now anyways).

The only thing I would add to this, in order to make it easier to do and not require anyone to have to play that difficulty, would be to make it so that the hardcore difficulty gave no favor points. This would allow an easier implementation and not require a complete reworking of the favor system for how it is worked out now.

Granted I probably would not use that difficulty much, but I might, and if worked in as mentioned (and with no favor gained), I think it would be a nice addition for anyone wanting to use it, but it would give no requirement for anyone to have to do it if they did not want to.

[bobbryan2]

Upping the level of favor would instantly add another 765 favor or so too, bringing us over 3000.

Would be a nice way to put some nice favor rewards at the top. Though I don't relish seeing Velah and Lailat on hardcore.

[WestiesMA]

The leet need something where they can log on for six hours, not run a single quest and when they log off they feel they have accomplished something. Like crafting. Running quests is fine and dandy, but timesinks...something that makes the game seem real-life to those who are bored, is what we need.

What do mean by crafting? Collecting flowers and hides and string to make items? Isn't this what the dragonscale collectors are really doing? I do scale runs 3-4 times a week and I'm lucky if I get one scale out of it. At this rate it will be well past MOD 6 by the time I get enough scales for anything, assuming I can trade for all on color. If that is crafting, then it's not anything that I would want to sink time into.

[Uska]

Blah!

New quests or difficulties are not the issue.

The issue is there are no timesinks. There is no crafting, nothing for people to do to just waste time.

We have running favor, loot and XP. They all involve running quests. Quests which the 'leet' have ran countless times already.

The amount of quests, the amount of loot, the levels we have - none of these are the problem.

The leet need something where they can log on for six hours, not run a single quest and when they log off they feel they have accomplished something. Like crafting. Running quests is fine and dandy, but timesinks...something that makes the game seem real-life to those who are bored, is what we need.

Yeah on swg enjoy crafting a bit even more enjoyed going out and getting resources with my ranger or other characters for the crafters was fun and was getting exp or anything like that most of the time but was doing something. heck even fishing was fun sometimes or using entertainer skills like you said some kind of time sink would be great.

[mocat]

With the server merge coming, it can only mean one thing, less people are playing the game.

The biggest problem I hear is the lack of content. For the "casual" player this isn't a problem usually. It seems to be a problem for the Hard Core players.

Therefore, "Hardcore" content needs to be available, no? Adding a quest here and there has only kept the casual player happy. The hardcore player rips through those new quests, usually straight to elite, and have everything ransacked by weeks end, leaving them waiting a couple of months for new content to experience.

So here's a simple(?) idea. Add a new level difficulty: Hardcore. (So you now have Solo, Normal, Hard, Elite, Hardcore).

What is Hardcore? My thoughts were either the mobs go up another notch, or you keep it the same as Elite and remove Raise Dead/Resurrections. Maybe even remove all the shrines or at least remove the resurrection shrines. Maybe on death, you get booted or your stone get teleported to a jail cell.

Basically, HardCore tests your skills to the max to see if a party can complete the quest without any deaths.

The reward? Maybe +1 loot (at least +1 loot to end rewards). Maybe another level of favor, and a third tier of favor rewards that mean something to the HardCore player, something truly good and uber, considering your will have to do quite a number of quests without dieing...

This would instantly "add" a hundred new quests to play and at least a dozen or more at the end game.

Lets face it, the hard core player already rips through any quest out there. Why not add an "insanely difficult" level to the quests because frankly, elite is "meh".

Thoughts?

I've been suggesting this very thing quite a few times over the last 6-8 months or so. I called it Uber or Insane difficulty, but Hardcore is good too.

I also suggested an elite server, where players can migrate to higher difficulties for a greater challenge. When you perfect your play style and do not find elite challenging anymore, you make a transition to the elite server.

What rewards would be available on these higher settings would be contentious though, as I feel we already have too much high end equipment in the game. Honestly, the only way to fix that now would be to do DDO2, and refrain from the monty haul aspect right from the get-go. DDO2 however, seems unlikely considering that Atari does not seem interested in marketing DDO at all anymore.

[Dirac]

Yes, this has been brought up several times. I think it is not a bad idea to consider, except, under NO circumstances should it come with higher level loot or favor, or anything. If so, it will simply become the NEW elite, the one setting everyone (but the most casual players) will be running.

I think a hardcore or insane setting for a handfull of quests (invaders, the pit, what have you) is a cool idea as long as it is for bragging rights or a sense of accomplishment only.

[Drith]

I FULLY 110 % SUPPORT a "UBER" quest difficulty.

As is "ELITE" is patheticly easy in any quest. My guildmates and I can zerg through any quest on ELITE almost just as fast as we do it on normal.

[Jamz]

Yes, this has been brought up several times. I think it is not a bad idea to consider, except, under NO circumstances should it come with higher level loot or favor, or anything. If so, it will simply become the NEW elite, the one setting everyone (but the most casual players) will be running.

I think a hardcore or insane setting for a handfull of quests (invaders, the pit, what have you) is a cool idea as long as it is for bragging rights or a sense of accomplishment only.

It seems this is quite common but I can't exactly seem why +1 loot is a bad thing? I would suggest this only for "end loot" rewards otherwise chest/loot runs would be out of hand.

Otherwise, if everyone is running HardCore non stop vs elite, how would that affect you?

Plus, if EVERYone is running HardCore non-stop, then they didn't do HardCore right

Basically, HardCore would be a setting that no one should be able to complain about it being "too" hard. And worst case, the hard core players are just getting vorpals and paralyzers etc, which quite frankly already have tons of.

Finally, you could always put a "Raid Timer" on it, I'm thinking 4-24 hrs? Simply to prevent said, "Run PoP on Hardcore 10 times!"

I would also suggest the "Raid Timer" activates at the START of the quest, not the end, therefore, you must wait regardless if you succeed or not.

Lastly, if it's strickly for bragging rights, it then only serves a "smaller" population of people. I know several hard core players that didn't do Favor and still don't and don't play the game for "bragging" rights. They play the game for a challenge, to collect loot, and play with friends. Every risk should have an equal reward or there is no point?

Just my POV, not bashing other views, and just trying to offer "options" for the Devs to keep more people.

Does anyone feel that they would leave the game IF something like this was implemented?

[mocat]

(snip)

Does anyone feel that they would leave the game IF something like this was implemented?

Nope.

If you didn't like it, or it was too hard, then don't use it. Pretty simple really.

I'm not sure that loot is the correct reward, but you are right, there would need to be some kind of reward to keep people interested and give them an incentive. If that incentive HAS to be loot because there are no other options that the uber players would enjoy, then so be it.

[Naso24]

I like the idea of a Hardcore difficulty, only open to players that have completed Elite.

To be hardcore, the devs could raise the CR of mobs, add more random trap locations, and add roving monsters, and possibly new sections or optionals that are only available in hardcore.

For loot, I could see adding +1 to loot tables (inherent in just being higher level). I'd also like to see another collector type quest, like invaders, where you can pick an item from a list, that has useful properties combined on 1 item.

With all the new item properties (thanks Turbine!), some new and interesting combos could be created.

Another idea is to make items that are powerful, but can only be recharged in certain quests.

I'd also like to see more unique race-class-alignment restricted items.