dwarf stabililty bonus?

[Jaggon]

Finally started playing a dwarf after getting my 1750 favour and now I notice that the +4 racial bonus vs. trip is not being applied to my rolls. I'm sure somebody has noticed it before but I'm wondering if someone could give me an update on it. I didn't want to go through the pages and pages of threads to look for it. Thanks for any responses.

[Arnya]

I may be wrong, but I believe stability only effects getting back up after a trip... ie: str check for trip with balance check to recover

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[vyvy3369]

Dwarven Stability in DDO is a +4 bonus on balance checks. It's already calculated into your skill on your character sheet.

[Jaggon]

I didn't know that in ddo they had changed it. In pnp it's applied to avoid getting tripped not to getting back up. I guess I just thought it would make more sense being applied to avoid getting tripped because it's not necessary to get back up if you're never on your back

[TreknaQudane]

Aye, but that would be useful

[Ghoste]

I didn't know that in ddo they had changed it. In pnp it's applied to avoid getting tripped not to getting back up. I guess I just thought it would make more sense being applied to avoid getting tripped because it's not necessary to get back up if you're never on your back

No, balance is not used in PnP to avoid getting tripped, although it also isnt used to get back up. It's a strength check (or dex if the defender has a higher dex).

PHB Trip:

You can try to trip an opponent as an unarmed melee attack. You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.

Making a Trip Attack: Make an unarmed melee touch attack against your target. This provokes an attack of opportunity from your target as normal for unarmed attacks.

If your attack succeeds, make a Strength check opposed by the defender’s Dexterity or Strength check (whichever ability score has the higher modifier). A combatant gets a +4 bonus for every size category he is larger than Medium or a –4 penalty for every size
category he is smaller than Medium. The defender gets a +4 bonus on his check if he has more than two legs or is otherwise more stable than a normal humanoid (such as a dwarf). If you win, you trip the defender. If you lose, the defender may immediately react and make
a Strength check opposed by your Dexterity or Strength check to try to trip you.

PHB description for balance skill:

You can keep your balance while walking on a tightrope, a narrow beam, a slippery ledge, or an uneven floor. Check: You can walk on a precarious surface. A successful check lets you move at half your speed along the surface for 1 round. A failure by 4 or less means you can’t move for 1 round. A failure by 5 or more means you fall.

Normally when tripped, you use your next action to get back up. The balance checks are Turbine's thing. Dwarves are supposed to get a free +4 to their str checks to resist trips. Is that already being included? The enhancement though specifically says it affects balance, which in DDO is an after the fact thing.

[Snike]

I don't understand why there is a STR check for being tripped. MOBs make a balance vs Trip DC to get tripped why shouldn't we?

[Hvymetal]

I just want the group trip ability that MOBs still seem to have.

Seriously the way Turbine has implemented trip I think a strong argument could be made that in addition to using either your DEX or STR (whichever is higher) to avoid being tripped, the way the system currently works, that if your Balance skill is higher that also should be used.

And if trip is currently working per the PHB, i.e. STR vrs STR, and the MOBs stats are close to the P&P stats as stated by the devs then why are wolves tripping a 20-22 STR fighter so easily in Tangleroot? Do wolves in P&P normally run around with a 18+ STR?

[Ghoste]

I don't understand why there is a STR check for being tripped. MOBs make a balance vs Trip DC to get tripped why shouldn't we?

No they dont. They, like we do, make a balance check to get back up. And like we do, they make a str or dex (whichever is higher) to resist the actual trip.

[Ghoste]

I just want the group trip ability that MOBs still seem to have.

Seriously the way Turbine has implemented trip I think a strong argument could be made that in addition to using either your DEX or STR (whichever is higher) to avoid being tripped, the way the system currently works, that if your Balance skill is higher that also should be used.

And if trip is currently working per the PHB, i.e. STR vrs STR, and the MOBs stats are close to the P&P stats as stated by the devs then why are wolves tripping a 20-22 STR fighter so easily in Tangleroot? Do wolves in P&P normally run around with a 18+ STR?

A str check isnt just a straight across comparison. The tripper has a set DC which is equal to 10 + str bonus (always str, never dex for the tripper) + feat bonuses + enhancement bonuses + equipment bonuses.

Take my wf strategist for example:
+10 base
+8 26 str
+4 improved trip
+8 vertigo weapon
+4 fighter strategy trip
+2 wf strategy
-----------
36 total

That means if he hits you, to save on a roll of 19, you need to have a str/dex score of at least 44 (+17). Any lower and your only hope is to roll a 20. Then to get back up, you need to make a balance check against that same DC (36). To save on a 19, you need to have a balance skill of at least 17. Any lower and you're only getting up on a 20.

Works great for fighter cc. Go trip one enemy, then ignore him. He wont likely get up before you're done killing his buddy.

[Hvymetal]

A str check isnt just a straight across comparison. The tripper has a set DC which is equal to 10 + str bonus (always str, never dex for the tripper) + feat bonuses + enhancement bonuses + equipment bonuses.

Take my wf strategist for example:
+10 base
+8 26 str
+4 improved trip
+8 vertigo weapon
+4 fighter strategy trip
+2 wf strategy
-----------
36 total

That means if he hits you, to save on a roll of 19, you need to have a str/dex score of at least 44 (+17). Any lower and your only hope is to roll a 20. Then to get back up, you need to make a balance check against that same DC (36). To save on a 19, you need to have a balance skill of at least 17. Any lower and you're only getting up on a 20.

Works great for fighter cc. Go trip one enemy, then ignore him. He wont likely get up before you're done killing his buddy.

SRD gives wolves a 13 STR which means around a 15 DC with Improved Trip (which they also don't have nor do dogs I believe, they have Weapon Focus: Bite) I am going to have to run Tangleroot and check my combat log because I think the trip DC is higher personally. I have a Strat style fighter type my WF Pally/Ftr aye it does work well when it lands but I still want an area effect trip

[Shade]

SRD gives wolves a 13 STR which means around a 15 DC with Improved Trip (which they also don't have nor do dogs I believe, they have Weapon Focus: Bite) I am going to have to run Tangleroot and check my combat log because I think the trip DC is higher personally. I have a Strat style fighter type my WF Pally/Ftr aye it does work well when it lands but I still want an area effect trip

Yea wolves in the cerulean hills do have about that trip DC. Higher lvl wolves understandable have much higher (due to higher str, enhancements, etc)

Yea dwarven stability should apply to all knockdown/trip checks, and getting back up. Hope they fix this.

In PnP, if your tripped you get back up the next round, so 6 seconds later. Thats a very long time in DDO, so balance was implemented to get up faster, you get to roll every 2 seconds. But trip also lasts much longer, I believe 30 seconds for trip, and 45 for improved trip.

[Ghoste]

SRD gives wolves a 13 STR which means around a 15 DC with Improved Trip (which they also don't have nor do dogs I believe, they have Weapon Focus: Bite) I am going to have to run Tangleroot and check my combat log because I think the trip DC is higher personally. I have a Strat style fighter type my WF Pally/Ftr aye it does work well when it lands but I still want an area effect trip

Keep in mind that many of the creatures in DDO have had a fair amount of tweaking done to them. A lot of that is just enhancements, but there are also feats you wont find listed under those creatures in the SRD. A simple way to confirm that is to look up any creature's average HP and compare that to how many they have in DDO. Rarely is it even close. My guess is that a lot of the enemies that trip have been given strategy enhancements to which their PnP counterparts do not have access.

[MysticTheurge]

No, balance is not used in PnP to avoid getting tripped, although it also isnt used to get back up. It's a strength check (or dex if the defender has a higher dex).

He means the dwarven stability bonus is used to avoid getting tripped. Which is true.

They ought to fix DDO to apply the bonus to the save vs. getting tripped rather than the roll to stand back up.