Cleric perks? Why join a church in Stormreach?

[samhuinn]

Or if they made a Raid loot drop of a Cure Critical Wand that has 50 Charges/Rest.

oooo...yeah that's GREAT idea.

I like the OP's concept too. I would still love to see a one stop shop, like the Portable Hole, for clerics as well.

[WilbyZ]

ding ding ding, we have a winner!

Yay... I win... again!

[Shaamis]

I had some time to think about some of the details and to be precise, the intent of this thread is to:

Reward clerics who decide they want to be a devout (pure) cleric, and want to shine above other muddled healers, such as bards and rangers) who are good, and sometimes great, but at their core, not as devoted to healing as clerics.

Give players a reason to log in with their clerics again.

Not make it easy to get, for anyone but the most devoted clerics and paladins in the game (who by definition, should be the most holy, and devoted to an established religion) in DDO so far.

Avoid any abuse of this system, by other characters, for the above reasons.

1) Substancial discount (50%-75% of the base cost) for items bought from the church you belong to.

2) gaining benefits in the church through favor, enhancements, or both.

3) different levels of devotion, represented by staggered benefit levels, enhancements, class level, and/or favor totals with the church of your choice.

4) all items bought in the church are non-transferrable. They are for use by the cleric/pally to dispense proff of their faith to the masses, and aadventurers, to show their piety to THE best religion in Stormreach.

A few simple enhancements can be added to the Cleric and Paladin choices:

Church Benefits I
lvl: Cleric 3 or Paladin 5
Action point cost: 1
Benefit: Choose a church: Sovereign Host, Silver Flame, or others (Vol, Argonessen, etc.) and in that church, vendors can sell potions at a much cheaper price than anywhere else in Stormreach. All items will bind to the buyer, but can be freely used for the benefits of the cleric's companions.

Church Benefits II

lvl: Cleric 7 or Paladin 10
Prerequisite: Church Benefits I
Action point cost: 2
Benefit: Choose a church: Sovereign Host, Silver Flame, or others (Vol, Argonessen, etc.) and in that church, vendors can sell potions, wands, and scrolls at a much cheaper price than anywhere else in Stormreach. All items will bind to the buyer, but can be freely used for the benefits of the cleric's companions.

How does that look?

[dormetheus]

Or if they made a Raid loot drop of a Cure Critical Wand that has 50 Charges/Rest.

I think that every time a cleric uses a wand, raid loot should just drop into his INVENTORY.

[CavernDragon]

Ok where did that 100k Plat go, I know I had it here somewere, OH wait I went on a raid last night, I would love to see more spell points for my Cleric that would keep me from having to pick up so many scrolls and wands. I run 2 Clerics' and its my fighter that pays most of the bills. I love being the healer for my guild, as they like to pitch in but I find my self using only my sp for non guild groups. Please just lower the cost of our supplies or give us more SP to help off set it.

[Shaamis]

My only concern is that making wands and scrolls easier to get will only put more onus on the clerics to have them en masse.

I have long thought that clerical wands and scrolls need to be re-evaluated. Maybe they should go the way of the D-Door scroll or maybe they should have their cool down timers jacked up. Something to dissuade players from relying on them. Clerical scrolls and wands are a *huge* part of the problems we see with players over-reaching their quest levels.

Personally I'd more advocate for Clerics getting a +1 on their loot pulls. I like the Ops idea in general, and I think it more fits the direction of the game than my ideas, just a minor concern.

I thought about the perks for clerics being better loot pulls, ( I heard about/witnessed some crappy pulls during loot weekends clerics were getting, but I also saw decent ones), but that might open the wambulance on other classes thinking their loot pulls were bad too (wizards anyone?)

The reliance on wands/scroll for clerics isn't really because they are over reaching their capability (although a lot of clerics will do that to a degree) but more to keep up with healing the hundreds of points of damage characters sustain during a simple encounter. The elite stats of the mobs in this game are beyond logic.
EX: Stormcleave outpost Blackbone soldiers that spawn with Pious, on elite, have an AC above 33, because just last night, my sixth level bard with +14 to hit, could only hit him on a 20. He was CR13, in a lvl 10 quest, and had 200+ HP easy.

But I Digress...

I thought it best to keep it in the spirit of the game, and honestly, I think it would be a good reason to roleplay yourself as a Silver Flame cleric, or Sovereign Host paladin, or Church of Vol Blackguard (oops, did I say that?)

At any rate, we need to entice more clerics to play!

[Inkblack]

I like the idea of using enhancements for this. To me, it becomes a sacrifice that your character has made to follow the path of believer. Because enhancements are useful, the sacrifice is significant and enduring. It means that you continue to follow the faith, not just ran a few missions for them and therefore the church is forever in your debt.

I would go ahead and make it available to all classes. After all, faith is not limited to just clerics.

What sort of progression makes sense? Different levels of potions/wands/scrolls for each level? Or is it a one time purchase, where you get all of the benefits for one enchancement? Could you tie it into the existing follower enhancements?

Very interesting idea.

Ink

[TFPAQ]

In my guild there are a couple of dwarven barbarian that have the following hit points, un-raged: 452, 456, 484. Raged they are all pushing 600 hp.

I have a lvl 12 Dwarven Fighter with unbuffed STR of 29 and CON of 22. With his enhancements, toughness, dwarven toughness and fighter toughness he has 372 hp. He was built for dps yet still has, in my opinion, an obscene number of hps. So cure serious wands are a thing of the past, or at best, for lower level chars.

What does that leave the cleric? Scrolls .... and more scrolls ... and more scrolls.

My main is a dwarven cleric13/pally1. I built him as a battle cleric, which is how I run him in PUGs because it is cheaper. In guild I run as a healbot and it is very expensive, to the point I only run him to help out guildies.

I don't think I should have to spend points to incur favor to purchase at better pricing. I believe that the devs need to look at the hp curve they have created and change the healing curve to compensate, give clerics more sp (my least favorite solution), or dramatically reduce cost on healing items.

[miracle23]

My cleric is lv 14 and i generally manage to get by without using scrolls or wands in most quests. The most i ever use is on some raids where i might spend a wand or max two and and about a dozen scrolls. Learning how to play my cleric to use most of his mana efficiently took a long time. However the return in lower cost was well worth the effort. If you want to spend less money as a cleric, learn how to cast, fight, buff, raise and restore during fights and in between. Know the quests, monster types and strategies. And you will be a rich cleric. Use your mana, it should be out when you come out when you come to a shrine. Plus its way more fun to do it this way.

[Pharaz]

Suggestion using existing church stuff. This only shows for 1 specific church, but could be duplicated as appropriate for the others.

Reward for the True Believer I
Prerequistes: Level 2 cleric, Follower of the Silver Flame
Cost: 1 Action Point
Benefit: Purchase cure potions from Silver Flame vendor at 50% and they bind on acquire.

Reward for the True Believer II
Prerequistes: Level 7 cleric, Follower of the Silver Flame, Silver Flame Exorcism, Reward for True Believer I
Cost: 2 Action Point
Benefit: Purchase cure potions from Silver Flame vendor at 25% and they bind on acquire. Purchase cure wands at 50% and they bind on acquire.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

The thing I hear most is how much of a platinum dump it is to be a cleric.

My cleric is a money-maker.

Put extended Resists and Deathward on your tanks, and you will need to heal less.

Don't blow your mana casting Destruction, and you can heal more.

I'm not knocking anybody's play-style, but it is a little counter-intuitive to blow all your mana casting Destruction on every frakking thing that moves and then complain about how much money you spend on wands.

Again: I'm not knocking anybody's play style. You can play your cleric however you want.

But understand that some play styles just flat out cost more.

My cleric is lv 14 and i generally manage to get by without using scrolls or wands in most quests. Learning how to play my cleric to use most of his mana efficiently took a long time. However the return in lower cost was well worth the effort.

Exactly.

[sheltcar]

Why don't toons just buy and give a wand to the healer. I play a pally and most of the time I will give at least 1 csw to my cleric.

[Laith]

4) all items bought in the church are non-transferrable. They are for use by the cleric/pally to dispense proff of their faith to the masses, and aadventurers, to show their piety to THE best religion in Stormreach.

very important point, glad you caught it.

Technically, the churches aren't suppose to be where "the masses" turn for healing magic, House Jorasco is. I don't see why the chuches wouldn't supply their clergy though.

Good thread. of course, casters would want some sort of similar setup

[cptcruch]

How about making wands rechargeable for a small fee?

[Shaamis]

Groups tend to play a lot more smart and efficiently when they don't have a cleric crutch.

I agree 100%, people decide it's a good idea to stay in a group, slow down, and let the rogue do his trapdetecting/disarming, when the safety-net cleric isnt there to top you off after every fire trap/long fall/spike trap.

The high end content, or a group going into an event, and low-balling the recommended level is where clerics are needed.

But I like the ideas we generated here, who shall we send it to?



I see similar thoughts

1) like the idea
2) should be tied to favor and/or enhancements

but some not so agreeing:

1) should be for every class to be capable of getting
2) make wands re-chargeable in the church, with the benefits.

I agree with both of those, to an extent.

1) should be available for every class: I would say sure, but not high-end scrolls or wands. with enough favor and enhancements, grant a ftr, with the piety to be a ftr of The Sovereign Host, be able to get potions at 1/2 cost, bind on purchase. this was intended as a benefit to play a cleric, a true believer, as opposed to an "occasional" believer, like bards and rangers kinda are.

2) make wands re-chargeable: I'd say sure, but I'd rather hold out for crafting, and implement it at the same time, maybe a crafting section in the church, where those with the benefits, gets to craft at a more cheaply/accurately rate, and item have to bind, in order to get the benefits of the churches forges/looms/laboratories.

Of course, we can always pre-purchase wands/scrolls/ pots for ourselves and allies, but I'd like to see a decent role-playing hook for having a neat benefit like church belonging. I think DDO needs more roleplaying hooks.

I don't play a cleric, tried one and deleted her at 5th level, because I wasn't having fun. But i did learn how hard it is to be a good one, adn most of my characters are self-healing. I'd love to see a real presence of the churches in Stormreach, maybe to counter the absolute fleecing the coin lords perform daily on us, the workhorses of Stormreach.

Churches, and the faithful, RISE in defiance of the penny-pinching Coin Lords!

hehe

[Vi'Aed]

I thought about the perks for clerics being better loot pulls, ( I heard about/witnessed some crappy pulls during loot weekends clerics were getting, but I also saw decent ones), but that might open the wambulance on other classes thinking their loot pulls were bad too (wizards anyone?)

The reliance on wands/scroll for clerics isn't really because they are over reaching their capability (although a lot of clerics will do that to a degree) but more to keep up with healing the hundreds of points of damage characters sustain during a simple encounter. The elite stats of the mobs in this game are beyond logic.
EX: Stormcleave outpost Blackbone soldiers that spawn with Pious, on elite, have an AC above 33, because just last night, my sixth level bard with +14 to hit, could only hit him on a 20. He was CR13, in a lvl 10 quest, and had 200+ HP easy.

But I Digress...

I thought it best to keep it in the spirit of the game, and honestly, I think it would be a good reason to roleplay yourself as a Silver Flame cleric, or Sovereign Host paladin, or Church of Vol Blackguard (oops, did I say that?)

At any rate, we need to entice more clerics to play!

I hear what you are saying about the wambulance... but my thinking is that people are not playing clerics. People complain about Wizards loot, but wizards are still fun to play. Clerics can be quite annoying to play. Not all of the time, but when things suck for the Cleric, the REALLY suck. I think the agenda is to get folks to want to play their clerics.


And yup, elite mobs are nasty, but as you pointed out, you had a 6th level bard in SC on elite. SC elite is a lvl 9 quest. 6th levels shouldn't, likely, be in there. That was what I was referring to re: players over-powering quests. A group of all 6th lvls in SC *should* be very difficult. It isn't, really, but it should be.