Reclamation - Please up the exp

[Thrudh]

That's a a tough little quest on elite...

15 or so of those spell-resistant duergar in each of the main fight rooms (4 big fights)

We had a heck of a time in there last night on elite (level 12 quest, characters were levels 11-14, fairly balanced PUG).

Even with the first time 50% elite bonus, I only got 3000 exp... Please increase that.. That quest (12th level on elite) was much harder than any of the Gianthold quests on normal (13th level on normal).

Oh and thanks for mixing in Rust Monsters with the duergar... You made me break my Greater Bane Dwarf dagger (I lagged out and apparently hit the Rust Monster standing nearby with it).

Seriously though (I'm not really complaining about the rust monsters), increase the exp....

Actually, I'd highly recommend someone going through ALL the quests and re-examining exp and loot... There are many many quests where this needs to be rebalanced.

*******Spoiler Alert*************































Bravo on the hidden pit by the way...

[Gol]

Eh? That quest was rather easily solo'ed. Took about 30 minutes is all

Not sure what you're complaining about, honestly...

[Thrudh]

Eh? That quest was rather easily solo'ed. Took about 30 minutes is all

Not sure what you're complaining about, honestly...

Do you really think that "YOUR" experience means anything to the general population anymore?

Max-gear power-gamers shouldn't even be allowed to comment on quest difficulty anymore (That would be a fun flag to set!)

None of us had vorpals, none of us had raid gear... that's a tough little quest for normal players... I've done all the Gianthold quests... most of them are easier...

That last room (where you can't retreat except into the water... and then good luck getting back OUT of the water if the whole team retreats, heals up, and tries again)... It was tough... again tougher than the Gianthold quests...

The archers in there were murderously accurate.

[Gol]

Do you really think that "YOUR" experience means anything to the general population anymore?

No offense, but what makes yours count for more than mine?

Max-gear power-gamers shouldn't even be allowed to comment on quest difficulty anymore.

Ignoring the issue of being allowed to comment, it stands to reason that if any single individual can solo a quest without using exploitative methods or tactics that any group of level-appropriate people would be able to do the quest just as easily. That is, unless you have 6 really really bad players/builds in the party...

[A_Sheep]

Max-gear power-gamers shouldn't even be allowed to comment on quest difficulty anymore (That would be a fun flag to set!)

By the same token, the difficulty of quests on elite shouldn't be allowed to be commented on in relation to the rewards.

Everything is built and balanced at the normal setting and then scaled up to the elite setting. Certain monsters scale up better than others, whereas the xp in quests always scales up in the same manner.

Do things on normal if you're not a powergammer. No shame in that.

That being said, I do believe (and I think this is what you're saying) that the quests in Ataraxia's haven ought to have higher XP awards in general (I'd scale them both up 50%). It's an uphill battle to get anybody to go there anyways as the quests aren't in the collective memory so to speak.

[Tanka]

For being a favor quest only, it suits me just fine as is.

If a group of 11-14's can't handle it, I can't imagine how they can stand GH. Insta-death spells are not the end-all-be-all of a caster.

[Gimpster]

None of us had vorpals, none of us had raid gear... that's a tough little quest for normal players... I've done all the Gianthold quests... most of them are easier...

Lol, it's an easy quest for someone with wizards or bards. The Duergar have no casters and no will saves. You just throw around some Charm Person or Suggestion and they all kill each other. The spells a level 14 could bring to bear are even more dominating.

Or toss in Fear and Greater Command if you want to be different.

[Zenako]

My first concern if soloing the quest would be if you could actually get back in within 5 minutes. It is a long run across the island and you have to zone a couple of times from the Inn in House K to then to the Island as well. Gonna be a tight fit. When I duo'd it on normal (my cleric and inlaws fighter) shortly after it came out I had to recall at least once, but since he stayed behind that was not an issue. The other quest on the far side of the island is even more tight on time to get back to.

What all these quests do is force you to think about better ways to take on the mobs. It is VERY easy to fall into tired old methods of beating them down, and you run into problems when the mobs can do a better job of beating than you can. Much like in BAM, when fighting Duergar assume they will be criticalling a lot. You need fortification and displacement. Did your casters take out their casters (Desctruction, FoD, etc). Makes things a lot easier, obviously.

[Mad_Bombardier]

My first concern if soloing the quest would be if you could actually get back in within 5 minutes.

Perhaps you are thinking of Sykro's Jewel, which is on the other side of the island. Reclamation is about a 30 second sprint from the zone-in boat (using a Haste clicky or pot).

[Daos]

There are a few things that make this quest a good bit difficult for your average players.

The duergar are immune to holds and paralyzing weapons. Luckily their reflex saves generally suck and they dance pretty easily, so those are two approaches to take to overcome that.

The duergar hit and hit hard. When I ran the quest on elite, I was critted for 120 damage twice (first I assumed was a fluke, after the second I switched to my heavy fort item that I had inadvertantly unequipped). Two of the guys I ran the quest with didn't have heavy fort items, so they died quite a few times to massive crits.

The rust monsters are annoying, and the duergar archers are a pain in the butt.

We had a near party wipe at one of the big rooms. Our paladin charged headfirst into the room and died shortly thereafter. Cleric runs to try to keep him alive, so the rest of the party runs while I'm laying down crowd control asking everyone to run things back to the entrance. Only person that listened was a rogue guildy of mine who got swarmed after the rest of the party died. I retreated over the pit in the middle and hid behind a rock to recover some hp, then came out slinging spells. I'll never forget cha's question over guild-chat -- "Did...did you just clear that whole room by yourself?"

It's just one of those quests where the usual tactics don't work. I can't really see a lvl 10 group attempting it on elite and having much luck, either (unless they're completely tricked out, I suppose). A wizard or sorc with the right spells that knows when to cast them goes a long way to helping ease the difficulty of this quest, too.

[Thrudh]

No offense, but what makes yours count for more than mine?

Very simply put... My quest experience is much more likely the norm... If yours (and other power-gamers) quest-experiences were considered when designing quests, then the non power-gamers would barely be able to play.

Ignoring the issue of being allowed to comment, it stands to reason that if any single individual can solo a quest without using exploitative methods or tactics that any group of level-appropriate people would be able to do the quest just as easily. That is, unless you have 6 really really bad players/builds in the party...

Basically, I could be wrong about the quest being too hard... Maybe I AM a bad player... maybe all six of us were bad players with terrible builds...

But you with an excellent build with top-of-the-line gear have no idea how hard quests are anymore for normal players...

Notice I didn't ask them to make the quest easier... I asked for the exp given for the quest to be raised... This was based on MY experience in this quest and other quests...

Where interestingly enough, my character and my play-style are the same... so the comparison is actually apt... Gianthold for this character and my playstyle is easier, yet those quests give out more a lot more exp... Therefore I believe the exp given in this quest should be raised...

I believe many of the quests in this game are poorly balanced in risk/reward ratios, and I would like to see them all revisited...

Comparing your experience to mine is apples to oranges... Your super awesome character can solo it... good for you... that doesn't address the main issue... There are rangers who can solo the Demon Queen... that doesn't mean that quest is too easy and needs to be made 10x harder (supposed to be a 12-person raid after all)

Now again, maybe this quest isn't that hard... maybe the exp doesn't need to be raised... maybe I'm just a poor player... certainly possible... But you're not in a good position to comment on this... Your characters are SO good that you can't tell what a hard quest is anymore for the general population... That's why I suggest your opinion isn't worth much in this particular area.

[Zenako]

Perhaps you are thinking of Sykro's Jewel, which is on the other side of the island. Reclamation is about a 30 second sprint from the zone-in boat (using a Haste clicky or pot).

I was when I first stated my reply, but still was thinking when you add up all the times: Dead to Inn, recover in Inn, exit Inn, Run across Kundarak, zone into Island, run up the hill to the entrance, jump back in...got to be at least 3 minutes, maybe 4 assuming no hangups. Skyros Jewel might almost be impossible. Running along the north side (avoiding the stupid cats hopefully) and not getting tripped up) it will take over a minute I would guess, even hasted to reach the quest entrance...)

[Zenako]

Got to make sure your casters are using the right spells. High Fort / Low Will mobs...charm or command their butts. High Will / Low Fort....Destruction, Fod, or the like. You can also pull some of the mobs and pick them off in small groups, BUT, it is very easy to awaken the whole rooms at once if you are not careful.

Rust Monsters do not save real well versus Destruction. Sneak up, and pick out the right targets, cull the herd so to speak. Duergar are kickass fighters... and their damage output shows. Hit them with their weaknesses.

[Thrudh]

Got to make sure your casters are using the right spells. High Fort / Low Will mobs...charm or command their butts. High Will / Low Fort....Destruction, Fod, or the like. You can also pull some of the mobs and pick them off in small groups, BUT, it is very easy to awaken the whole rooms at once if you are not careful.

Rust Monsters do not save real well versus Destruction. Sneak up, and pick out the right targets, cull the herd so to speak. Duergar are kickass fighters... and their damage output shows. Hit them with their weaknesses.

Thanks for the advice... We didn't have anyone with Charm... that probably would have worked well (My bard uses charm all the time - love that spell)

[Zenako]

My Drow bard has Duergar Dance Parties all the time...they dance till they drop...heh heh...them dark dwarves loves the tunes...and disco balls. (not as much as elementals do, but still nice).

Or a few Greater Commands can get some of them groveling for a bit.

[Gol]

There are rangers who can solo the Demon Queen... that doesn't mean that quest is too easy and needs to be made 10x harder (supposed to be a 12-person raid after all).

This may sound like I'm venturing off topic, but bear with me.

I can teach any 2 people how to duo DQ as long as one of them is capable of healing (from a wand). Doing any quest is a matter of tactics. Your tactics didn't work in Reclamation, and as a result you had great difficulty with it. All the gear in the world won't save you from bad tactics.

As others have said... Know what Duergar are vulnerable to (Will/Reflex saves), what they're immune to (paralyzation, wounding), and how to avoid damage (hop on a perch and range with 1 person shield blocking). It's not rocket science. Use these 3 peices of info and you could 3 man it with normal gear.

[tihocan]

I can't remember the XP, but doing it with a 11-14 group on elite has not been a problem the two times I did it.
I think you (obviously) need acid resist for the archers.
Also, you should not try to compare a L10 quest on elite to a L13 quest on normal. A LX quest on elite has never been equivalent, in terms of difficulty, to a L(X+2) quest on normal. It's something to keep in mind when going in on elite...

[Thrudh]

As others have said... Know what Duergar are vulnerable to (Will/Reflex saves), what they're immune to (paralyzation, wounding), and how to avoid damage (hop on a perch and range with 1 person shield blocking). It's not rocket science. Use these 3 peices of info and you could 3 man it with normal gear.

Point taken...

I still submit that the base exp for this quest is entirely too low...

[Tanka]

Point taken...

I still submit that the base exp for this quest is entirely too low...

The XP for most quests on Elite are "too low". As Elite isn't really a two level increase, it's a several-level increase.

If you can't handle the heat...

[Missing_Minds]

I can teach any 2 people how to duo DQ as long as one of them is capable of healing (from a wand). Doing any quest is a matter of tactics. Your tactics didn't work in Reclamation, and as a result you had great difficulty with it. All the gear in the world won't save you from bad tactics.

I assume this also implies that one of them has evasion/imp evasion as well? Other wise wand whipping isn't going to do a thing against those darn blades.