Bladesworn Transformation Cooldown ReEvaluation PLZ!

[Sadus]

# Bladesworn Transformation

* Prereqs: Cleric 6 or Paladin 9, Follower of the Lord of Blades, 16 (Cleric) or 28 (Paladin) Action Points Spent
* Cost: 4 Action Points
* You are a devoted follower of the Lord of Blades, and your faith has been rewarded. Activate this ability to become a juggernaut of destruction for 60 seconds. (You have a +4 profane bonus to Strength, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, a +4 profane bonus on damage rolls, and proficiency in all simple and martial weapons. Your base attack bonus equals your character level. You have lost your spellcasting ability. You have immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, but cannot be healed by healing spells.) Cooldown: 20 minutes.

20 Minutes just makes this enhancement too trivial.....

I propose lowering the cool down to 5 mintues... this would still make the ability a situational ability... but would allow more than one use in a given quest.

For example... this would allow an individual to use the ability in the beholder area in VON3 and most likely again at the end of the quest with the last beholder. (since beholders are for paladins as well as battle clerics worst enemy in terms of offense since we can't use DF or DP)

Given the requirements of being WF which is not the most logical choice for Paladin race -2 to wis and cha, lose of feat do to body selection, healing penalties, and resulting investment in enhancements non-WF would not need to spend for example Healer's Friend and faith tier 1 and tier 2 costs (given that paladins already need to devote a significant # of enhancements toward their aura's and cha enhancements)

WF Paladins are a rare sight as it is anyone I think can see just looking around their given server. For those reasons listed above. Obviously Turbine feels they need to institute some incentive... but with an excessive cool down.

In concession to the cooldown reduction I think most WF would easily give up the the immunity to critical associated with the ability. Also, the simple and marshall weapon proficiency is not nessisary... as obviously the Paladin already has these proficiency's and a "battle cleric" WF (only individuals I can envision wanting to make effective use of this ability) are only going to be carrying around weapons that they can use. It is highly unlikely they would carry weapons around with them that they could use 1 minute every 20.

So I open this thread for support or opinions.... I think this is a reasonable proposal in the idea to make a nice enhancement a much more usable feature. Given it's current trivial status.

[Capstern]

thats interesting idea - would likely be more acceptable to the devs in the 7-8 min range would be my guess but I agree I would love to make a WF pally and this would be a great thing but at 20 min its almost useless

[Shadow_Flayer]

Agreed. I tried this out on my WF battle cleric and dumped it right away. I'm fine with the not being able to cast, it's just that the cooldown makes it really worthless. Once per rest would be nice. Or once per quest. But once every twenty minutes means using it about once every quest and a half. Not much use.

I really hope they don't have another in the line that requires this one down the road. I love the concept of a cleric of the Lord of the Blades, and the guy is great fun to play, and a powerhouse. But I dropped this one as soon as my timer let me reset.

[riexau]

Support this 100%. 5 mins would be about right.

I'd love to see way of the machanic repair over time cast to be instant as well. I got it, used it twice and dumped it - 5 sec activation was just rediculous.

[Mad_Bombardier]

I'd go with once per rest instead of timed cooldown. And yes, some people will use it at the miniboss, shrine, then immediately again at the endboss, but that's ok. It's a ridiculously short timed "transformation." Maybe it should more appropriately be called Bladesworn Fury.

[Sadus]

bump to the top.... waiting for response....

[Yaga_Nub]

I'd go with once per rest instead of timed cooldown. And yes, some people will use it at the miniboss, shrine, then immediately again at the endboss, but that's ok. It's a ridiculously short timed "transformation." Maybe it should more appropriately be called Bladesworn Fury.

I'm all for that. I have this on my WF paladin and while it is fun for RP it's still not something that makes that much of a difference. Not being able to be healed means that a raged barbarian is still doing twice as much damage as my transformed paladin but the barbarian isn't going to be killed in the first ten seconds of the fight.

They should remove the healing penalty and make it cost a use of turn undead.

[negative]

Well, if it says anything about this enhancement, my WF Pally (Level 11 currently) is NOT using this enhancement, but instead is using both of the Soverign Host enhancements (the longsword and uber-LOH ones).

edit: BTW, WF Pally's absolutely rock if built right. I absolutely love playing mine and he's a powerhouse and a boon to any group.

[Karethon]

I disagree with reducing the cooldown to 5 minutes. Maybe the 1/quest or 1/rest that was suggested, but even that might be too much. I realize that the transformation is not the most powerful boost, but the developers feel that it is on par with the other faith abilities. The main issue I would foresee with changing the cooldown on the transformation is that doing so for the warforged would initiate a landslide of "why don't we have a 5 minute cooldown for the Undying Host faith?"

The transformation probably needs something to make it more appealing, I don't think that reducing the cooldown is it.

[negative]

The transformation probably needs something to make it more appealing, I don't think that reducing the cooldown is it.

I agree. I think the idea posted above about removing the healing penalty is moving in the right direction, even if it sorta takes some of the neat RP out of it.

I would suggest, remove the healing penalty AND the 100% fortification that it grants, and it would be a lot closer to on par with the other faith enhancements.

[Sadus]

Waiting for Dev Comments

[sigtrent]

Bumping your posts is a violation of the forum policy BTW, which if someone reported it (I did not), could get your post yanked. Just a warning to you, not an inditement.

As to the idea..
I think 10 min would be a bit better. I have the Vulroon one that summons a scorpion, its also the same timer although a longer duration I think (if it stays alive that long). Its only 4 AP so it shouldn't be a character altering power, that said 20 minutes is a long time to wait, I often shrine a time or two by the time the timer goes off. My only consolation is its great for when we get stuck waiting for people because I can use it multiple times in the same quest.

Once per rest would be fine by me as well. Then you could at least let it fly once per quest. I'd say 2 min is a better time span for the WF abbility.

[Yaga_Nub]

I agree. I think the idea posted above about removing the healing penalty is moving in the right direction, even if it sorta takes some of the neat RP out of it.

I would suggest, remove the healing penalty AND the 100% fortification that it grants, and it would be a lot closer to on par with the other faith enhancements.

I could get onboard with 1 use per rest, remove healing penalty and remove 100% fort. I think a lot of WF already have 100% fort by level 9 anyway. Well at least all of mine do.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Waiting for Dev Comments

The Devs are a myth, they do not exist so they will not respond. They existed once but then a great change came to the forums and all the Devs fled in fear in front of the great wave of nerd rage being cast in their direction.

All that exists now are the Kobold and the Cube.... Fear them... Great and powerful creatures of wrath and destruction. They watch... They are everywhere... and they squish bumped threads and the people in them...

[negative]

I could get onboard with 1 use per rest, remove healing penalty and remove 100% fort. I think a lot of WF already have 100% fort by level 9 anyway. Well at least all of mine do.

I think if you made the fortification and healing change, the 20 minute cooldown (or rather, use the same cooldown as the other faith enhancements), would be approriate. I think it would be a bad idea to change the cooldown of a single faith enhancement and make it different than all the other ones.

Now, if we are talking about changing the cooldown globally for all the faith enhancements, I might get behind that, but its a whole nother discussion, as it must be balanced for all the different faith enhancements.

[JosephKell]

What if instead of removing the healing penalty it increased repair effects cast on the WF by +20%? I also think it would be better if it was 1 per rest but can be used again if you expend two turning attempts. and a 10 minute cooldown isn't that bad, if a person is running into shrines faster than every 10 minutes, the quest can't be THAT hard to begin with.

But a cooldown and negation of Conjuration (healing) benefit is necessary otherwise you would see legions of WF CoDzillas... without the Druid part. I don't mind a 10 or even the original 20 minute cooldown as long as it is somewhat consistant with respawn rates (i.e. respawns are at most every half a cooldown--just so that I can get out of the way).

I also think it would be nice if the Follower of the Lord of Blades enhancement added the Repair spells to the Cleric and Paladin list (at the same levels of the equivalent Cure spell). +1 to attacks with Greatswords is nice, but I would much rather be able to cast Repair Critical Damage or Reconstruct. Assuming that Devotion abilities were allowed to increase repair spells for clerics and paladins. I would definitely make a WF Paladin or Cleric if I could heal myself beyond Lay on Hands.

Summary of changes to Bladesworn Transformation:
- Conjuration (Healing) is ineffective (not a change).
- Transmutation (Repair) is +20% effective. (In effect it would be another 1.2 multiplier, so if combined with empowered healing it would be 1.2*1.5)
- 1/rest + additional use by expending 2 turning attempts. (I think this would be appropriate for all of the faith feats)
- Cooldown of 10 minutes (from when the Transformation starts).

Summary of changes to Follower of the Lord of Blades:
- Repair spells added to the spell list for Cleric and Paladin at same levels as Cure Spells (must be prepared separately). Reconstruct at the same level as Heal for Clerics.
- Cleric/Paladin Devotion affects Repair spells.
- Empower Healing should affect Repair spells.

But that is just my opinion.

[Karethon]

I think that, for the cost, the enhancement should not do much more than it already does. Removing the temporary "Improved Fortification" (or whatever it's called) feat, thus allowing healing, would probably go a long way to "improving" the enhancement. A tweak to the duration might also be in order - perhaps changing it to a "short" duration, like haste, that is level driven. I'm not sure how long the Avatar lasts for the drow, but I bet it's more than 60 seconds.

While I can see how it might need improving, I also see that, on paper, it is one of the most powerful faith enhancements. Compare it to the other choices, and I think it generally comes out ahead.

• Drow get to summon a scorrow...when the efreet have their mana they are about the only useful summoned creature in the game; unless the Avatar is a priest or prophet, I don't think it can compare.
  
• Elves get a raise dead, which is pretty nice. Clerics can start raising at 6th with that, and paladins get the equivalent of a ring of the ancestors at 9th.
  
• Silver Flame effectively gets a phantasmal killer that works on extraplanar creatures. Will save or be banished, fortitude save to resist some of the damage if you succeed on the will save.
  
• Sovereign Host gets a lay on hands on steroids. Completely heals you while curing you of a list of conditions.
  
• Warforged get a Tenser's transformation on steroids. For clerics and MC paladins, it's great. Not only do they gain the enhanced BAB of divine power/Tenser's, they also gain a profane bonus to strength, AC, and damage, as well as heavy fortification. The downside is that it is Tenser's, so you cannot cast during the spell, and that the heavy fortification is accomplished by temporarily granting you a feat that prevents you from being healed with "cure" spells.

Keeping in mind that all of these are on a 20 minute timer, I honestly think that the Lord of Blades gives more "bang for the buck" enhancement wise. It might need tweaking, but not a massive overhaul.

[Sadus]

After Feedback given... I am more in favor in a 1 per rest use with the additional idea of being able to trade in Turn Undeads or enhancements to gain additional uses...

I'm still STRONGLY against the 20 Minute cooldown for this and all faith enhancements. It's just too constraining to make the enhancements practical and remove them for trivial / novelty status.

[Mad_Bombardier]

with the additional idea of being able to trade in Turn Undeads or enhancements to gain additional uses...

They added enhancements for additional Dragonmark uses, so this request is not entirely unreasonable. Although Dragonmarks are feats, with enhancements unlocking more. Perhaps the extra use cost for Faith enhancements should be limited and higher cost. Eg., Zeal I- 2AP, +1 use per rest. Zeal II- 4 AP, +2 uses per rest.

However, just converting from time to rests would greatly increase use of the Faith enhancements and no further uses may be necessary.

[Yaga_Nub]

Heck, I'd even be happy with no changes other than making it once every 10 min.