PVP - Opinions are all we have.

[Atreeson]

PvP = huge waste of development time and in DDO at least a misguided failure.

Who is to say that questing isn't just as much of a waste of time? It's an opinion. Some people think PvP is more entertaining after grinding the same quests all day, I'm not the only one on my server I know that feels this way.

[Shecky]

Who is to say that questing isn't just as much of a waste of time?

I am. Well, after 30 years of D&D players and all the rulebooks that they use get done with having THEIR say. It's the basic design of the game, PvE - PvP is only mentioned sideways and in passing, never with any real acknowledgement.

It's an opinion. Some people think PvP is more entertaining after grinding the same quests all day, I'm not the only one on my server I know that feels this way.

See above.

[Atreeson]

I am. Well, after 30 years of D&D players and all the rulebooks that they use get done with having THEIR say. It's the basic design of the game, PvE - PvP is only mentioned sideways and in passing, never with any real acknowledgement.



See above.

Then allow me to react how people react to me when I refer this game to the pencil and paper D&D - It's a totally different game. They would have left PvP specifically OUT of the game had that been their intention. But their intention was to leave it in, so obviously, there is some hope of later content, but NO ONE, not even 30 year vets, can say whether I am right or wrong about it.

[Shecky]

Then allow me to react how people react to me when I refer this game to the pencil and paper D&D - It's a totally different game. They would have left PvP specifically OUT of the game had that been their intention. But their intention was to leave it in, so obviously, there is some hope of later content, but NO ONE, not even 30 year vets, can say whether I am right or wrong about it.

Actually, they were saying from the beginning that they had zero intention of implementing PvP in DDO. Bread and circuses - er, "popular opinion" swayed them into putting it in.

[Belfalcon]

then go play a game that has it like wow.. i got this game becuse of the lack of pvp in the game.. and for most of use that play ddo dont like pvp and love the game the way it is so what im saying is move on to a game that has it and dont force us to have pvp just becuse some would like it
im also sick of hear i pay to play so thay need to do this... well you pay for the RIGHT to play on thare server.

Now I know there are many of you out there that hate PVP because you feel it's either an "ego boost", or a "waste of time", or something else to that nonsense. But here is the way I see it - We all pay to play the game, therefore we all have an equal right to do whatever we wish in the game, so why shouldn't PvP be more of a part of the game? There are many on Thelanis (server I play on obviously) I know that would appreciate more dynamics to the game, other than bangin the same quests over and over again for more uber loot, so you can use that uber loot to do those quests again in hopes of more uber loot. Or, you could get loot so you can hold your own in the PvP arena. Why shouldn't we use PvP as a use of tactics, contents, and even as an overall show of fighting skill? The fighting system in this game is such where you can be as good as you want to be, as in physically dodge spells and attacks, even if you have a crappy AC, if you're quick enough, you can be a lot better than what you appear. If we had some way to put the PvP system to use other than just tavern brawls and team battles (which NO one does because it hardly ever works), like a battle grounds, or even an entire server for PvP where the only safe points were the taverns, I think it would add a whole new dynamic and perspective on the game, and since it would be on its own server, only the people that WANT to be there, shall. I just don't think we need to do away with a part of the game that WOULD have existed, had Eberron actually been a real place and time.

But anyway, I think for a more realistic sense, more calling of skill, and overall, more satisfying (in my opinion), we need come together and speak up about our thoughts on PvP (excluding the people against it because you all say the same **** like a broken record) so we can bring a new exciting part to the game without hardly changing anything. Just think about it, dont be closed minded.

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Thelanis
Ex- Vagabond Member


Long Live Shinarel!

[KristovK]

Who is to say that questing isn't just as much of a waste of time? It's an opinion. Some people think PvP is more entertaining after grinding the same quests all day, I'm not the only one on my server I know that feels this way.

If you feel that questing is a grind, may I suggest you find a game where PvP is the focus and not an afterthought instead of a game where questing IS the focus? Obviously DDO isn't the game for you, which considering your Founder status is rather humerous, you've known since release that PvP was NOT part of the game design or plan.

And you didn't answer any question I posed because I posed none. I made a simple statement, that being you obviously don't know jack about the game and your opinion of PvP and it's value is obviously flawed due to that. You make it clear yourself from the above quote that your opinion is obviously flawed on this subject and should be disregarded out of hand.

Yes, some people feel that PvP should be the focus of the game. These same people tend to feel that way about ANY online game, it's all about direct competition against other living breathing opponents. There are plenty of games for that online, even MMO's built entirely around that concept, such as Planetside, where you get BOTH teamwork and direct conflict with living breathing players at the same time and you get it on a massive scale at that. Tactics and strategy actually MEAN something in that game, where as PvP in DDO is just a matter of who gets the better roll first, nothing more and nothing less. Try to fool yourself all you want, that's the truth of PvP in DDO.

Obviously no one on your server with a caster does PvP or you'd not be so quick to think your barb/fighter/paly such a god of PvP, but that only further erodes the already dubious value of your opinion concerning PvP. 14th level Sorc or Wiz spec'd for damage...even if you save you still die, the damage is that high. And they don't have to hit YOU..just near you...or didn't you know that? Not to mention the various spells that don't have saves, and if you really think your SR means anything to a 14th level caster...please, my 14th Wiz's bonus to defeat SR is a +21, means I have to NOT roll a 1 to get around your SR and my wiz didn't even take all the feats and enhancements for that! In DDO, as in PnP, once you get past 10th level, casters are the big dogs and everyone else is just support for them. We don't see that in the quests in DDO due to the massive HP inflation of the mobs, but...funny thing....the players don't get that massive HP inflation, so in PvP you get to see how powerful casters truely should be. So go on telling us all how you are a PvP god and that your opinion matters because of that when you obviously don't even know the basics of the game.

Please...anyone who thinks they can avoid being Fascinated....that's a Bard ability since you don't know that, and there is NO save NO SR check NO defense.

[HumanRogue]

PVP helps the game grow because it increases player interaction. I've stuck with MMOs even after I've exhausted all the content because of the player interactions. Gives something to do rather than roll a new toon and run WW again, or kill Velah again, or kill the Stormreaver again, etc. After 10 times, the questing gets to be a drag. Add more player/player interaction. Just my opinion of course...

-HumanRogue

[Bryan721]

I dunno much about other games but I do know a little bit about DDO, I like it for what it is, a quest based MMO.

That is not to say that I am against PVP, I kinda like wasting some time in the tavern brawls but it really is obviously not the focus of this game and since it is ostensibly based on PnP d&d it isn't likely to be a very good pvp game because it flat isn't designed for it from the ground up. I play a level 14 warforged barbarian with all the damage specs you can have with a max constituion and som pretty good gear and I die almost instantly when a damage specced caster gets me targeted. Of course I do have a jolly good time of beating the **** out of them when they mess up and don't get the spell off but really it's fundamentally not the point of the game just a pleasant distraction while waiting for a raid to start or something.

CoH is the only other game I have ever played extensively and PvP is something that they also reluctantly added to appease the player base but they made the mistake of attempting to rebalance all the powers and archetypes to work in an equitable manner against players and mobs, it doesn't work really well but is pretty fun.

In ddo the devs don't really have the option of completely redesigning the game systyem to accomodate pvp because it is supposed to be faithful to the source material.

I suggest maybe playing a game that is more PVP centric if you want a better quality pvp experience or just be content to do a little tavern brawling before the raids like the rest of us.

I personally am going to try that new age of Conan game because it looks like it will be more fun for PVP since the combat system is more like a console game than an mmo.

[Atreeson]

If you feel that questing is a grind, may I suggest you find a game where PvP is the focus and not an afterthought instead of a game where questing IS the focus? Obviously DDO isn't the game for you, which considering your Founder status is rather humerous, you've known since release that PvP was NOT part of the game design or plan.

And you didn't answer any question I posed because I posed none. I made a simple statement, that being you obviously don't know jack about the game and your opinion of PvP and it's value is obviously flawed due to that. You make it clear yourself from the above quote that your opinion is obviously flawed on this subject and should be disregarded out of hand.

Yes, some people feel that PvP should be the focus of the game. These same people tend to feel that way about ANY online game, it's all about direct competition against other living breathing opponents. There are plenty of games for that online, even MMO's built entirely around that concept, such as Planetside, where you get BOTH teamwork and direct conflict with living breathing players at the same time and you get it on a massive scale at that. Tactics and strategy actually MEAN something in that game, where as PvP in DDO is just a matter of who gets the better roll first, nothing more and nothing less. Try to fool yourself all you want, that's the truth of PvP in DDO.

Obviously no one on your server with a caster does PvP or you'd not be so quick to think your barb/fighter/paly such a god of PvP, but that only further erodes the already dubious value of your opinion concerning PvP. 14th level Sorc or Wiz spec'd for damage...even if you save you still die, the damage is that high. And they don't have to hit YOU..just near you...or didn't you know that? Not to mention the various spells that don't have saves, and if you really think your SR means anything to a 14th level caster...please, my 14th Wiz's bonus to defeat SR is a +21, means I have to NOT roll a 1 to get around your SR and my wiz didn't even take all the feats and enhancements for that! In DDO, as in PnP, once you get past 10th level, casters are the big dogs and everyone else is just support for them. We don't see that in the quests in DDO due to the massive HP inflation of the mobs, but...funny thing....the players don't get that massive HP inflation, so in PvP you get to see how powerful casters truely should be. So go on telling us all how you are a PvP god and that your opinion matters because of that when you obviously don't even know the basics of the game.

Please...anyone who thinks they can avoid being Fascinated....that's a Bard ability since you don't know that, and there is NO save NO SR check NO defense.

By hearing your words, you obviously don't PvP near as much as myself. Any caster on Thelanis will tell you I put up one of the best, if not the best challenge in the arena with my barbarian, whether they'll admit it or not. The fact of the matter is, you can avoid almost every single damaging spell in the entire game simply by moving laterally or jumping high enough at the right time.. Had you been skilled enough to know this, you would have another perspective. All I can say is, come on Thelanis and make a caster, and you're not gonna be uber in the arena, I guarantee you that. There isn't a single caster that I've fought in the arena that I have never beat, or cannot beat. You don't understand that it's not just about stats. It's about knowing how to use every resource your character has to offer, and use it to its full potential. Like with barbarian speed, warp time, and sprint boost, I can dodge fireballs, lightning bolts, cone of cold, scorching ray, even chain lightning.. There is a way for each damage spell to dodge it. You have to have good reflexes (in real life) and speed, and you can beat almost any caster.. Of course having all saves in the mid 20s, to low 30s helps too. You obviously have no knowledge on how that is done, so I'm glad I can be the first to let you know.

[Atreeson]

And don't forget that if there was a PVP SERVER then that wouldn't affect anyone except the ones who played on that server. So how could you even be against it? If you don't want anything to do with it, it'll seem like nothing changed, but if you want a part in it, you are able to go all the way or just every once and a while you play on it. Either way, it's just an idea to add dynamics to the game while not changing the way the game is played. Which is why I don't understand why all you people keep saying they'd have to change the game all that BS. It would basically be another test server like Risia, except have the concept of people actually being able to hurt each other, which is more realistic, whether you want to think that or not. That could even give way to evil alignments eventually. There are endless possibilities, so don't be so freakin against something until you know all about it.

[HumanRogue]

Yes, some people feel that PvP should be the focus of the game. These same people tend to feel that way about ANY online game, it's all about direct competition against other living breathing opponents. There are plenty of games for that online, even MMO's built entirely around that concept, such as Planetside, where you get BOTH teamwork and direct conflict with living breathing players at the same time and you get it on a massive scale at that. Tactics and strategy actually MEAN something in that game, where as PvP in DDO is just a matter of who gets the better roll first, nothing more and nothing less. Try to fool yourself all you want, that's the truth of PvP in DDO.

I agree that PvP shouldn't be the focus of DDO. I doubt that there are more than a few people who would really want it to be the FOCUS of DDO. I also don't think that many people really want to see full PvP where you have to look out as you walk around town or go to quests for fear of getting jumped (I know that's not really what I want either). PVP does add another dimension to the game though. I know I took lots of time designing and leveling a character just for PvP and have found that he's now my favorite character to play while doing PvP AND questing.

[Vinos]

Hah. Fascinate and scorching ray? Try good will save and speed, and a vicious maul of greater elf bane, which i know most of you casters are, and you're gone in 2-3, sometimes 4 hits. come on Thelanis and try that to my toon Sturmcrow Locke. I guarantee you, you shall have a difficult time. Mark my words.
And as far as you saying it requires no skill, try spring attack with a two handed weapon. It changes the way you can deal dps with a weapon if you're good enough. And by saying it requires no skill implies that you have no knowledge of the way pvp can really be, so I would suggest you try it more often.

Typical PvPer attitude. And the reason many people can't stand PvP.

[jaitee]

i love PVP, i usually go there to take a break from questing/looting, to have some fun, on my server, ive become a pretty decent pvper.
-i also learn many things in pvp areas, how to react on how to take out players, how to defend/kill multiple players and stay alive, it helps me in quests, ive got really good in pvp, on my caster i can take out 5-7 casters all coming at me once, while moving and dodging spells, just relate this to a quest, total party wipe, ur the only one left..you get the story, pvp helps tone skills up, pvp does require skills, if not knowing what spells to use when and how, and how fast ur reflexes are to react, where to put ur most used spells on the hotbar, hotkeys. if this is not a skill then, are u just spamming buttons on ur Nintendo like when we were kids?
-pvp is a place i like to go to break from all the drama, and grinding, id like for it to improve,

FYI, jumping down from the bridge into the pvp area, and killing someone who is busy pvpin with other, or FtS someone jumping down is not skills

[Lebrac]

Hah. You still would be sadly mistaken. I assure you.

Ppl like u atreeson is why i wish there was a way to cross server PVP.... i would love for my little ranger/fighter to get his mits into a good dual with u

[Lebrac]

Typical PvPer attitude. And the reason many people can't stand PvP.

so your telling me u can't stand PVP becaues ppl learn how to adapt and overcome your abilitys to use there own?.... i dont' understand this line of thinking at all.

[JelloMold]

The degeneration of this thread into the I can beat you up...no you can't garbage is why PvP has no appeal to me. IF they implemented the ability for people to kill other players I'd drop in a heartbeat.

With regards to your single server kill everybody rules, think about this: You just join a group and you are on the way to join them when you are cold cocked by some troglodyte who has nothing better to do than to keep others from having fun. Griefing galore. Maybe if you could turn it on and have an "it's OK to try to kill me" flag over your head that would make it a little better. Even then, you'd have some fool camping out without his fight staus being active, slip into a position to make the target vulnerable, switch the fight status and attack. I can even see this guy hit you while you are not looking, if you don't die, he'll swtich back and say HaHa you can't hit me.

Great system for 12 year olds. Not much attraction for us grownups.

Even though you don't want to hear it (and already have), the game is not designed around PvP. Unless you built your character specifically for PvP you WILL have glaring weaknesses that frequent PvPers will learn to exploit. Before long, most people would get tired of it and go back to running quests.

[Nevthial]

For myself and my guild mates hopping into the brawling area and being killed or doing some killing yourself is fun. We leave our ego's at the door. It is a good way to test different weapon & spell combinations for us. Granted, not all spells are available, but, we can still get the idea of how a particular combo might work against monsters. Personally, I don't feel that the ability to attack other players should be extended outside of brawling areas or the PvP arena. It would lead to much grief if it were. PvP should be left as it is.
It is a pleasant diversion. Besides, the brawling areas are nice for roleplay purposes.

And , come on, my characters wouldn't be master River Dancers if it weren't for PvP.

[Drider]

Heh you must not forget a 22 will save as well, and barbarian speed, warp time, and sprint boost with 2h weapon with barb power attack 3 and spring attack? you better hope i fail that first save on the hypno as in rolling a 3 or less. Because if not, you're either tripped, stunned, or just gonna die in a matter of seconds . Spell resistance 20 helps too.
That answers your question KristovK.

Seriously this is why alot of people dislike pvp. It's just alot of my **** is bigger then your *****.

[smodge13]

one thing that would good, i tried to set it up ages ago and got alot of interest in it, i unfortunately didnt have enough time to actually get it started and off the ground, but something i was trying to set up on htelanis was weekly pvp tournaments, entry costs a certain amount of plat and then 2 teams enter the arena, knockout style tournament as team with msot points advances and the total plat would go to the nights winner.

unfortunately i dont have a time of the week that i can definately make it online every week so i was unable to get it off the ground.

[HumanRogue]

Seriously this is why alot of people dislike pvp. It's just alot of my **** is bigger then your *****.

I think this is why lots of people like PvP too. They are able to see who is better at it (or who has the lucky rolls as the case may be). Goes both ways.