PvP???

[Shecky]

Do you even know what PvP stands for? It means Player vs Player or Player Killer. It is to the death there is no other meaning so unless youve been hiding under a rock or behind a bunch of carebears for the past 10 years. you would know that by now. please do us all a favor and not comment on things you have shown you have absoluely no knowledge about.

Quite aware of what PvP stands for, thank you. It means "Putrid, vile playstyle". And "to the death"? Are you freakin' KIDDING me? It's a bunch of pixels manipulated by a computer keyboard and/or a mouse. Giving it pseudo-legitimacy and overglorifying it by calling it "to the death" is just... wow, the mind boggles at how much money could be made by therapists with the knowledge that this mindset is out there.

The current set-up of PvP, with the no-importance, no-ramifications, no-impact tavern brawl being the standard in this game, is just fine. It's a fun way to work off a little steam and maybe razz a few guildies for laughs. To the death? E-chest-thumping at its worst.

[Raithe]

Do you even know what PvP stands for? It means Player vs Player or Player Killer. It is to the death there is no other meaning so unless youve been hiding under a rock or behind a bunch of carebears for the past 10 years. you would know that by now. please do us all a favor and not comment on things you have shown you have absoluely no knowledge about.

Player versus player, or PvP, is competitive interaction within a game between two live participants. This is in contrast to games where players compete against computer controlled opponent, which is similarly referred to as player versus environment (PvE) or player versus monster (PvM). PvP could be a type of combat in MMORPGs, MUDs and other computer role-playing games (CRPGs) pitting one player's 'skill' against another's.

PvP can be broadly used to describe any game where players compete against each other, such as first-person shooters, real-time strategy games or tennis. In computer role-playing games, this is typically called player killing or PKing, where player controlled characters actively do battle against other player controlled characters.

The term has also been adopted in discussions about traditional role-playing games and live-action gaming, with approximately the same meaning.

I wonder how many points you score in tennis for killing the opposing player?

[Raithe]

Brannoc - *Sinteres* PvP elements, any at all? If so, will there be any meaning (profit, territory) to battle, or will it be for personal pride?
KenTroop - We're not doing PvP in DDO for launch...PvP is not an essential element of the D&D experience, and that's ultimately what are lodestone is -- recapturing that tabletop experience and bringing it to life in a MMP.
KenTroop - Eckelberry's answer nails it -- we're not like other MMPs, because we're not trying to be...we want to be the quintessential D&D experience that you can play with your friends.
KenTroop - It's why we instance our dungeons -- private playgrounds for you and your friends without interference, it's why we don't have grinding -- D&D is not about standing in one spot and killing the same monster over and over again, it's why we don't run everywhere -- D&D is about fun adventure, not travelling for 10 minutes to get to the fun.
EckelberryDDO - Moreover, i can tell you that the D&D game system doesn't really embrace the idea of PvP. Beyond the fact that D&D is all about teamplay and teamwork, even the base spells of D&D like hold person make it very troubling to make a PvP game. After all, we dont care when you cast hold person on a goblin and ruin its gameplay experience. But if you cast it on a fighter and he can do nothing but fail a save and die... well, that
EckelberryDDO - ... well, thats not very fun.

By the way, thanks Ziggy for the chat script. Ken Troop is completely fouled up in his thinking, because while player killing is not an "essential element of the D&D experience," player interaction is the very core that is missing. There is no reason to roleplay with someone if nothing they can do can affect you in any way.

I now know not to worry about DDO any longer... it's a hopeless case.

[Maldini]

I would LOVE to someday see cross server PVP... because PVPing the same people all the time does get a little old at times. and it would be great fun to have to adapt to a new style of PVP from others since most people on the server i play on PVP alot alike.

A tourny to take the top say 5 or 10 people from Melle type classes and caster type classes from each server and 100% copy there char's to risia then have the finals played there would be a great way to do this.

Go to Risia. Test servers are where cross-server PvP happens in other MMO's.

[Merlask]

...but I don't think I've been at a D&D game once where the players havent, at one point or another, tried to kill one another. This occurs either by long term plotting with other players, or concidental 'oops, I swear I was trying to hit the monster with that AOE spell...' moments. I'm kinda baffled how 'pvp' is 'not a part of D&D'

Some fun examples:

My Eberron character Mekari CHA draining my husband's character because his character performed a coup de gras on another player's char ... Mekari figured he would be coming for her next.

One of my buddies working as a a bad guy in a Wheel of Time rp working to kill one of the other players. Loooong time coming, but he ultimately ended up getting discovered prematurely, and the players got in a big duel over it.

In my RPXpress game I ran, three players tried to gang up on and kill one player because they felt he was 'hording the magic items.' Ultimately they did end up killing another player character, but that was self defense, as it was my hubby scheming with me to see if they'd really off him just because they knew the player ^^

Uxor's dad in a Forgotten Realms game was aaaalmost in need of a rez because one of the players forgot he took double damage from fire spells >< ow.

The players jumped my hubby's char in The World's Largest Dungeon because they felt he was getting too powerful, and ultimately would be able to kill them all if he so desired. Now mind you they were all of evil alignment. That part wasn't bad. What was bad was that in this part of the dungeon, if you died, you would get 'reborn' so to speak (i.e. respawn.) So not only did they kill him, but they did so by throwing him in a vat of holy water so that he would respawn over and over again and die to the holy water every time, so he couldn't get a rez.

So yeah... players killing each other in D&D... never heard of it

[KristovK]

Merlask, no offense, but it sounds like you only play evil groups, which is rather anti-D&D to be honest. Rules even make mention that evil alignments are not meant for the players but for the NPCs...I know, gets overlooked ALL the time, especially since there's classes that actually require evil aligments, but hey...

30+ years of PnP, I've had a few character versus character engagements take place, I admit that. In high school, the paladin in the party went after my barbarian after many years ingame of my barb baiting him. Cost the paladin his paladinhood and my barb some pulled muscles from laughing after he was rez'd. In college, had the DM take over my character and attempt to kill the party, they stopped him and discovered a demon had possessed him, lead off to another adventure. Outside of those two experiences, NONE of my non-evil aligned games in the past 30+ years involved players trying to kill each other. Had plenty of racial or class tension things going on, even some religous issues between party members, but trying to kill each other...no. That is NOT common in PnP, it's not even desired and is rather discouraged by the rule books.

Now, my evil aligned games...plenty of player trying to kill player action, and every single one of those games ended the same way...someone kills everyone else and the campaign is over, and it's usually pretty short lived. Which is probably why it's discouraged by the rules....go figure.

PvP isn't part of D&D, never was, and the rules make that pretty clear, even down to saying that evil alignment isn't meant for players....

Want PvP, go play something built around it, cause that ain't this game and it shows. From early interviews(as quoted already in this thread) it was clear, PvP wasn't in the design plan, and it's been made clear AFTER they folded to pressure and added PvP, it's NOT being made more then it is...you get places to go at each other, outside of that, tough.

[Merlask]

Merlask, no offense, but it sounds like you only play evil groups, which is rather anti-D&D to be honest. Rules even make mention that evil alignments are not meant for the players but for the NPCs...I know, gets overlooked ALL the time, especially since there's classes that actually require evil aligments, but hey...

30+ years of PnP, I've had a few character versus character engagements take place, I admit that. In high school, the paladin in the party went after my barbarian after many years ingame of my barb baiting him. Cost the paladin his paladinhood and my barb some pulled muscles from laughing after he was rez'd. In college, had the DM take over my character and attempt to kill the party, they stopped him and discovered a demon had possessed him, lead off to another adventure. Outside of those two experiences, NONE of my non-evil aligned games in the past 30+ years involved players trying to kill each other. Had plenty of racial or class tension things going on, even some religous issues between party members, but trying to kill each other...no. That is NOT common in PnP, it's not even desired and is rather discouraged by the rule books.

Now, my evil aligned games...plenty of player trying to kill player action, and every single one of those games ended the same way...someone kills everyone else and the campaign is over, and it's usually pretty short lived. Which is probably why it's discouraged by the rules....go figure.

PvP isn't part of D&D, never was, and the rules make that pretty clear, even down to saying that evil alignment isn't meant for players....

Want PvP, go play something built around it, cause that ain't this game and it shows. From early interviews(as quoted already in this thread) it was clear, PvP wasn't in the design plan, and it's been made clear AFTER they folded to pressure and added PvP, it's NOT being made more then it is...you get places to go at each other, outside of that, tough.

There is 'evil' and there are 'conflicts of interest'