Raid Loot & Morale

[CrimsonSeraphim]

So I just finished 2 manning the Demon Queen. After some impressive hack, slash, and spellcast she finally topples, we dance, open the small chest (with loot worthy of not existing), open the big chest, split the loot, recall, and check our end rewards.

I think I should go through the trouble of raising Lailat from the dead given his idea of a reward. Seriously, what was Zawabi thinking? Did too much Djin ale get to his head?

Here's what I was offered:
+1 Improved Freeze V Dagger of Lesser Repair Lore
+2 Superior Lightning Lore Scepter <--------
Lesser Acid Guard Robe of Improved Silent Moves
DB Robe of SR13
Lesser Fire Guard Robe of Imp Silent Moves
Robe of SR19
Acid Guard Robe of Acid Resistance
Fearsome Robe of False Life
Elixir of Major Mnemonic Enhancement <---------
Wand of Lightning Bolt

I'm sorry, but for accomplishing Zawabi's lifelong dream and freeing the land from the great evil scourge that is Queen Lailat.... shouldn't there be something, well, to look forward to?

D&D's big revelation in loot was to have each person have their own chances. This is not a game of choosing need where you should have said greed. However, raid drops, a signature element of MMORPG's, are treated as treasured objects which are fought over and end in bitter disappointment for 10/12 of the people supposedly in the raid. Therefore the recent trend has been to cut out all the dead weight to get each person or nearly everyone in the raid loot.

So here's my suggestion. Put the fun back in getting a 12 person party together. Have a unique static reward list on par with raid loot (ok fine, slightly less powerful if you must) as end rewards for raids. Here's what this will help:
#1 People will be more positive during raid looting because this one big chest isn't the end of the line. There's a much better chance that you'll get something afterwards.
#2 More people will get that "YES! I got that unique item" feeling after raids.
#3 The devs will have somewhere to put mediocre raid loot, or restricted audience loot that appeals to very specific people and builds. Ex: The Khopesh from the Queen (what are the odds a khopesh user will be in the party? Its an exotic weapon after all) The Titan Docent: great for WF, not for ANYONE else. The Necklaces from VoN6 : great for sorc/wiz of that specific build ONLY. This allows Turbine to give awesome items to unique and special builds without causing distress to other players.
#4 Raid loot can be more generalized for everyone. In other words, make raid items useful to a wide variety of people instead of a small number. Ex: The Kundarak Delving Suit is useful to any dex based character. There are very good odds someone in a party will want it (Rogue, Bard, Ranger, and extras). Or the Sword of Shadows (any tank or melee character). +2 Tomes.

Let me know what you think.

[Vinos]

I disagree. The end reward isn't the reason you do raids it's the raid loot.

[Rathic]

I disagree. The end reward isn't the reason you do raids it's the raid loot.

thats why he is saying to put the raid loot in the end reward... so EVERYONE gets raid loot, not two people

[Cowdenicus]

I personally would love to see 4-5 items in the warded chest and 2 seal breakers.

[Elfvyra]

Perhaps he's merely offering what he considers "fair" compensation for the job you undertook for him. If you two manned it the risk vs. reward sounds about right....

[Vinos]

thats why he is saying to put the raid loot in the end reward... so EVERYONE gets raid loot, not two people

Worst idea ever. So everyone would do a raid 2 or 3 times tops then they would have all the raid loot they need? I am not the biggest fan of the current raid loot system but it is certainly better than giving everyone what they want the 1st time through. I think they should have a token system like invaders or the dragon scale system. Get X tokens and pick your raid item.

[dormetheus]

This post sounds incredibly greedy. What did you pull from the end chest?

Also, if EVERYONE on the raid got end raid loot, what would be the point of ever doing it again? Seriously, who would run it more than twice?

DDO is working a small population game. They're already giving away too much, and now you want more?

These raids would never get run.

[shins]

Apparently some of you haven't run the dragon raid over 100 times in hopes of a delving suit or SoS, or Titan as much hoping for some gloves etc and NEVER seeing them drop...

The current loot mechanic is stupid, and all it rewards is repetition and stupidity. I don't have the answer as to what the mechanic should be, but i know it should not be what it currently is. Ran titan last week, 2 docents. Week before that docent and rattlecharm and just the other night before the server went down, got 2 battlecoins. All i know is that something needs to change because this is utterly stupid.

[Lee4416]

I personally would love to see 4-5 items in the warded chest and 2 seal breakers.

this is an excellent idea - maybe not 4-5 but 3 from which we can choose 2...
and hopefully a way of programming for not having 2 of the same item?

[zyp]

Have to agree. I really dislike the raids because of the loot system.

The raids are fun and challenging the first several times you run them but the loot system means you have to run them over and over and over... just playing the odds and hoping for some cool piece of raid loot to finally drop for the guy you're running at the moment so you can roll on it and watch it go to the lucky guy who came along on the raid for his first time but happens to roll one point better than you on the die.

Add to this the fact that if you just wait a couple of mods, those cool items you finally got from all that raid-pounding a little while ago are now dropping in non-raid chests as un-bound items or as rewards for token-collecting.

[Rokurgepta]

Worst idea ever. So everyone would do a raid 2 or 3 times tops then they would have all the raid loot they need? I am not the biggest fan of the current raid loot system but it is certainly better than giving everyone what they want the 1st time through. I think they should have a token system like invaders or the dragon scale system. Get X tokens and pick your raid item.

So its better that we keep running the raids farming them until the loot tables get tweaked down because they are getting run too often?

[LogannX]

For me raiding has never been fun but I ask this question-
If the attitude of raiders is that loot must be distributed slowly over several raids (otherwise why do it again) why do you ask for more raids. It makes it sound like you dont like raiding but just want to get loot other people cant get because they dont want to or cant get 12 good players that want to raid together.
Id rather see no raids and good quality loot on elite group dungeons but thats me. It still sounds like this is only a plea for oober loot and not good encounters. And it's very hard to have sympathy if you are 2 manning a raid no matter how much time or resources go into it.
I am happy the heart of DDO is group dungeons and not raids.

Sark 13 rogue khyber

[Vinos]

So its better that we keep running the raids farming them until the loot tables get tweaked down because they are getting run too often?

read the whole post please. I also said I dislike the current system and proposed a change that isn't a "gimme what I want on the 1st run" suggestion.

[Aesop]

make raid bosses drop collectables ala Invaders and let us buy raid rewards... the one we want... heck make it so they have a variable cost ala BAM. everyone one gets 1-3 Tokens and the Raid rewards cost 15-35 or more depending on the boss. At least then you are always working towards something and not just hoping and ending with sad disappointment when your item doesn't drop or worse... someone else wins it


Aesop


also the end rewards dfor raid should be taken from a higher table. If the Reward table for end rewards is normally lvl-4 make it lvl -1 or 2 or something like that... it is in theory a major undertaking

Aesop

[Rokurgepta]

read the whole post please. I also said I dislike the current system and proposed a change that isn't a "gimme what I want on the 1st run" suggestion.

I read your whole post and just like invaders it leads to a grind and farming which supposedly DDO isnt about. But between the GH and invaders thats what they created.

[sirgog]

I read your whole post and just like invaders it leads to a grind and farming which supposedly DDO isnt about. But between the GH and invaders thats what they created.

I'd prefer farming with a guarantee of getting the reward you want, than farming where you may or may not get lucky. And offering 2 tokens for normal, 3 for hard and 4 for elite makes running the raids on higher difficulties more appealing.

[BluePaladin24]

Apparently some of you haven't run the dragon raid over 100 times in hopes of a delving suit or SoS, or Titan as much hoping for some gloves etc and NEVER seeing them drop...

The current loot mechanic is stupid, and all it rewards is repetition and stupidity. I don't have the answer as to what the mechanic should be, but i know it should not be what it currently is. Ran titan last week, 2 docents. Week before that docent and rattlecharm and just the other night before the server went down, got 2 battlecoins. All i know is that something needs to change because this is utterly stupid.

The PnP system for gerating loot is completely random. I don't know how they emulated that for this game, but it seams pretty random to me. If anything Turbine did us a favor by making an item that would appear in a specific chest at random so that you know where to find it. I am sure everyone on this forum knows where to find a Planar Gird, or a Fragment of the Silver Flame. Don't complain because you did not get one specific item that you were looking for. I am willing to bet that in the 100 times you ran the dragon raid you got some great stuff. I am sure there is someone out there that would be willing to trade you all the extra stuff you got for one of the items that you listed.

[AEschyl]

to the OP:

I think what you're missing is this... YOU JUST 2-MANNED A FREAKING RAID!

the raids are supposed to be the end-content. the raids are suppost to measure your utmost ability to work together as a team.

the problem here is not with the way the warded loot is distributed, the problem here is not with how frequent any certain raid item drops (just go farm pop for a while, cuz i certainly dont see raid loot that gives you +5 resistance or +5 protection)... and the problem here CERTAINLY is not with the end-reward system. what, would you rather turbine go back to putting caster-mods on greatswords and kamas? getting non-50charge wands?

until turbine makes a REAL raid, it has no business giving you MORE reward for the CURRENT "raids" they have.

My personal records:
Von 5: 35min, Dragon: 4min (6man)
Forge: 45min, Titan: 15min (4man)
ADQ: 24min, Queen: 6min (2man)
No Prep Needed, Reaver: 15min (4man)

I hardly think i should be rewarded with a sure-chance at raid-loot for running quests that take less effort than running the Crucible... let alone a guaranteed good item from the end reward.


Fix raids first, worry about the pointless loot later.

(disclaimer: i'm a raid wh0re and always will be)

[Vinos]

I read your whole post and just like invaders it leads to a grind and farming which supposedly DDO isnt about. But between the GH and invaders thats what they created.

So you suggest everyone gets what they want the 1st run through? And to think many people think we have too much loot as it is. LOL.

[AEschyl]

The only raid loot that is worth "farming" a raid for are:

Sword of Shadows
Delving Suit
----------
Battle Coin
Centurion Armor
Chattering Ring
Insulated Armor
Jungle Cloak
Seven Fingered Gloves
Titanic Docent
----------
Bracers of the Demon's Consort
Bramble Casters
Lion-Headed Belt Buckle
Pouch of Jerky
Torc of Prince Raiyum-de II
----------
Head of Good Fortune
Madstone Boots
Madstone Shield
Ventilated Bracers

and even some of those items... are horrible.

why are those good raid items? cuz they have abilties on them that you can NOT get from any other items/abilities/spells in the game. they are unique in their own little way. and before you say "oh, that's a pretty big laundry list of good items" think to yourself.. can any character use all or even most of those items??

Until raids drop Resistance +5 and Protection +5 items, and items with 2 +6 stat bumps on it... there really is no need to "grind" raid loot.