Wanted: Practiced Spellcaster

[Skaves]

Practiced Spellcaster

Choose a spellcasting class that you possess. Your spells cast from that class are more powerful.

Prerequisite: Spellcraft 4 ranks. (we can use Concentration I suppose)

Benefit: Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by 4. This benefit can't increase your caster level to higher than your Hit Dice. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain Hit Dice in levels of nonspellcasting classes, you might be able to apply the rest of the bonus.

For example, a human 5th-level sorcerer/3rd-level fighter who selects this feat would increase his sorcerer caster level from 5th to 8th (since he has 8 Hit Dice). If he later gained a fighter level, he would gain the remainder of the bonus and his sorcerer caster level would become 9th (since he now has 9 Hit Dice).

A character with two or more spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat's effect.

This feat does not affect your spells per day or spells known. It increases your caster level only, which would help you penetrate spell resistance and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.

Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you choose it, you must apply it to a different spellcasting class. For instance, a 4th-level cleric/5th-level wizard who had selected this feat twice would cast cleric spells as an 8th-level caster and wizard spells as a 9th-level caster.





I thought if this feat from the Complete Arcane was implimented the Multiclassed Casters would love it.

[Gimpster]

A character with two or more spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat's effect.

DDO should not allow ranger or paladin spellcaster level to benefit from Practiced Spellcaster. There should just be Practiced Wizard, Practiced Cleric, and Practiced Sorc. (Maybe also bard)

1. Rangers and Paladins in this game already have double the caster level they do in PnP. That is a major boost, and they don't need to be given more.

2. There is rather little reason to stay pure to the ranger/paladin classes instead of going into barb or fighter for more combat power. However, staying pure up to level 11 is important because you get the valuable Resist Energy 30 spell. Allowing someone to have that spell power with just 7 ranger levels would be bad.

Note that a PnP ranger needs to be level 22 to get resist 30, or level 14 if he takes Practiced Spellcaster.

[Corran99]

practiced spellcaster dose not work that way. if you have a 14th level ranger and take practiced spellcaster guess what you still cast as a 14th level ranger.

Now if the same 14th level character had 12 levels of ranger and and 2 levels of fighter it would allow him to cast spells he has access to as a 12th level caster but allows them to cast them as a 14th level ranger.

In the feat description it says that practiced spell caster cannot grant spell casting ability above the hit dice of the character. this feat was designed to help multiclass casters get a bonus to their spells by raising there effective caster level up by 4 levels.

[Gimpster]

practiced spellcaster dose not work that way. if you have a 14th level ranger and take practiced spellcaster guess what you still cast as a 14th level ranger.

Wrong. The Practiced Spellcaster feat increases your caster level for a single class by either +4, or to a max of your HD. A 14th level ranger is caster level 7, so training Practiced Spellcaster would bring him up to CL 11.

Now if the same 14th level character had 12 levels of ranger and and 2 levels of fighter it would allow him to cast spells he has access to as a 12th level caster but allows them to cast them as a 14th level ranger.

No. He'd have the spells of a 12 ranger, and a caster level 6+4=10.

In the feat description it says that practiced spell caster cannot grant spell casting ability above the hit dice of the character. this feat was designed to help multiclass casters get a bonus to their spells by raising there effective caster level up by 4 levels.

Yes, that was the intention of the feat. But it also gives a great benefit to non-multiclassed rangers, paladins, and other classes whose caster level is 4 or more below their class level.

PS. This is touching on a design flaw of 3rd edition D&D. Effects which boost your caster level should have a consistent way to apply to classes which advance CL at variable rates. For example, a prestige class which gives you +1 level of divine spellcasting should generally give +1 level to clerics and +2 to paladins.

[llevenbaxx]

So am I right in saying that this feat is only useful really for helping to overcome spell resistance, increasing the affects of level dependant damage spells and increasing the duration of buffs?

Many times I have seen this(and other) feat(s) asked for here. Do they ever plan on adding any new feats? All they seem to be interested in really expanding upon is there "super" enhancement system. Give us some more D&D already. Feats man, feats.

[Gimpster]

So am I right in saying that this feat is only useful really for helping to overcome spell resistance, increasing the affects of level dependant damage spells and increasing the duration of buffs?

No. As already explained, it also increases level-dependent effects of spells, such as Resist Energy increasing to 30 at caster level 11.

The other effect will be raising your caster level for dispel checks. It gives you all the benefits of increased spellcasting except for more mana and more slots.

[KristovK]

Gimpster, I've never seen it applied that way in PnP in regards a Ranger/Paladin...even when this feat was taken by one who multiclassed. While it does TECHNICALLY say what you say it does, that's not the spirit of the feat and that's not how it's meant to be implemented. It's very clearly meant to raise the effective caster level of a MULTICLASSED caster, not get around the inbuilt limitations of the Ranger/Paladin effective caster levels.

I'm sure there's munchkins out there who've done this, but no DM with any sense would allow it, it's obviously not what the feat is meant to do.

[Gimpster]

I'm sure there's munchkins out there who've done this, but no DM with any sense would allow it, it's obviously not what the feat is meant to do.

No:
1. Munchkins don't play rangers.

2. Conceptually, if a feat lets a Fighter4/Druid4 advance to the caster level of 8, it should also advance a Ranger8 to a caster level of 8. Neither kind of improvement is fundamentally more sensible or more balanced. After all, something like ranger is essentially a pre-multiclassed class, and they should behave like a multiclass in several mechanical ways.

[Roguewiz]

misread

In regards to Caster Level:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...tm#casterLevel

Practiced spellcaster allows you to increase your Caster Level by +4, but cannot exceed your character level.

Therefor
3 Wizard, 4 Fighter = Caster Level 3. Practiced Spellcaster will make it Caster Level 7
4 Wizard 2 Fighter = Caster Level 4. Practiced Spellcaster will make it only 6, because you are only a 6th level character.

Final Example:
6 Wizard, 8 Fighter = Caster Level 6, Character Level 15 = Practiced Spellcaster will make your Caster level 10, allowing you to get 10th level power out of your CURRENT spells.

[BluePaladin24]

Okay, I use this feat all the time. Here is how it really works.

I have a Centaur lvl 6 Wizard. Drow have an ECL of +6. So I am an 12th lvl character with 10 Hit dice. (Centaur 4d8 hit dice, +2 ECL, makes it ECL 6)

So I am caster level 6, have spells as a 6th level wizard, and I have practiced spell caster. I do not gain spells as a 10th level wizard. That would be the most overpowered thing I have ever heard in my life. If you do not believe me go to a book store, and open up complete arcane. I have it in front of me.

I am with my party in combat against a white dragon. I cast fire ball. The fire ball deals 10d6 points of damage (6th level wizard +4 from practiced spell caster). For purposes of overcoming the spell resistance I would be a 10th level caster.

This is actually a really well balaced feat.

[llevenbaxx]

misread

In regards to Caster Level:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverv...tm#casterLevel

Practiced spellcaster allows you to increase your Caster Level by +4, but cannot exceed your character level.

.

Thats right, I forgot about that part in the description. Since a rangers spell progression is just slower than the primary casting classes, they simply arent a MC therefore the feat wouldnt raise their affective caster level as it is in fact already his max level. Would this be correct?

[Roguewiz]

Thats right, I forgot about that part in the description. Since a rangers spell progression is just slower than the primary casting classes, they simply arent a MC therefore the feat wouldnt raise their affective caster level as it is in fact already his max level. Would this be correct?

I've never personally used the feat as a "hybrid" class, so I am not sure. Keep in mind, there are a few spells which don't start off at max. Take Divine Favor (or whatever it is called) for Paladins. It doesn't start off maxed out. It doesn't max until level 9 Paladin.

Yet another example:
Ranger 8/Rogue 6

Jump
+10 skill, +20 at 5th level caster, +30 at 9th.

This is the confusing part about this feat. It either works one of two ways.

1st way (the way I believe it works.)
-Increased your Caster Level to 12, allowing you full affect of your current spells

2nd way (the most confusing)
-Since you dont gain spells until level 4, your "5th level" would be 9th level ranger, and your "9th level" would be 12th level ranger.

[Corran99]

Wrong. The Practiced Spellcaster feat increases your caster level for a single class by either +4, or to a max of your HD. A 14th level ranger is caster level 7, so training Practiced Spellcaster would bring him up to CL 11.


No. He'd have the spells of a 12 ranger, and a caster level 6+4=10.


Yes, that was the intention of the feat. But it also gives a great benefit to non-multiclassed rangers, paladins, and other classes whose caster level is 4 or more below their class level.

PS. This is touching on a design flaw of 3rd edition D&D. Effects which boost your caster level should have a consistent way to apply to classes which advance CL at variable rates. For example, a prestige class which gives you +1 level of divine spellcasting should generally give +1 level to clerics and +2 to paladins.

The way I read the description for the feat is that if you have a 10/2 ranger/fighter his caster level would be 5. now adding the feat into the equation would make the character spells act as if he was a 12th level ranger which would mean that his caster level is 6 instead of 5.

This is the way I would have it work in any game I play, as I'm sure this is the way it was meant to be implemented. unfortunately the way it was worded does make it a bit fuzzy.

[Corran99]

Okay, I use this feat all the time. Here is how it really works.

I have a Centaur lvl 6 Wizard. Drow have an ECL of +6. So I am an 12th lvl character with 10 Hit dice. (Centaur 4d8 hit dice, +2 ECL, makes it ECL 6)

So is he a Drow or Centaur?

[Roguewiz]

So is he a Drow or Centaur?

I'm confused also. Because drow only have an ECL of 2 or 3, last i checked

[Solik]

I fully support implementation of this feat, with Gimpster's caveats.

[SneakThief]

2nd way (the most confusing)
-Since you dont gain spells until level 4, your "5th level" would be 9th level ranger, and your "9th level" would be 12th level ranger.

I dont think you are calculating caster level for Ranger right for PnP. There is no subtraction involved.

Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level.

A 9th level Ranger would be 4.5 (doesnt specify rounding rules), but more importantly, a 10th level Ranger is only CL 5 in PnP, not 6.

The difference (and why someone brought up Rangers and Paladins at all) is that in DDO, as a Ranger or Paladin, your CL is you class level. So a level 10 Ranger is CL 10 in DDO, but 5 in PnP.

So the complaint was the Practiced Spell caster should not apply to Rangers/Paladins in DDO because thier CL is already inflated quite a bit.

Though regardless of how they implement it for Rangers/Paladins, I would LOVE to see this feat added!

[BluePaladin24]

So is he a Drow or Centaur?

Sorry was typing fast, and at work. Centaur

[KristovK]

No:
1. Munchkins don't play rangers.

2. Conceptually, if a feat lets a Fighter4/Druid4 advance to the caster level of 8, it should also advance a Ranger8 to a caster level of 8. Neither kind of improvement is fundamentally more sensible or more balanced. After all, something like ranger is essentially a pre-multiclassed class, and they should behave like a multiclass in several mechanical ways.

Actually Gimp, yeah, they do player Rangers, usually just enough to get TWF for free true enough, but some take more levels and go with PrCs that sweeten the ranged abilities or FE feats. Isn't a class in PnP that munchkins can't abuse to the nine hells and back, much as in MMOs there are always people who'll abuse anything they can find.

And you have to take Practiced Caster for a specific CLASS, it's not generic and doesn't add to each caster class you have by taking it once. So that Ranger/Druid would need to take it twice in order to affect both Druidic and Ranger spells, and it would only allow the character to cast spells as an 8th Druid/8th Ranger. Rangers do act like a multi in some respects...such as their caster level progression in PnP...1-3rd level, no caster level, 4th and up, 1/2 of level is the caster level, and they top out with 4th level spells. It's actually a wasted feat for a Ranger to take PractCast:Ranger, so I really doubt many PnP players bother with it except for munchkins who can convince a DM that it raises their total caster level as you suggest Gimp, which is clearly not it's intent. Conceptually a Ranger 4/Druid 4 taking PractCast Ranger is...well...stupid, they'd be taking PractCast Druid since those spells would actually benefit from the feat, but I guess that didn't factor into your conceptualization.

The feat is obviously NOT meant to raise the caster level of a single class's progression, it's very clearly meant to be used by multiclassed builds to increase the magical power of a caster who's given up levels of caster for something else, such as the Eldritch Knight or Mystic Theurge. As I said, only munchkins would try to argue what you are saying Gimp and no halfassed intelligent DM would fall for it.

And in DDO it would be pointless anyway, Ranger/Paladin already get a full 1/1 caster progression, shouldn't but they do, so it'd be even dumber for one of those classes to take the feat in DDO.

Seriously..if you honestly thought this feat did what you posted...man...I don't know how to respond to that. Member of the Church I take it Gimp?

[Shawhan]

I played a cleric/wizard for over a year when i saw this feat. For the next year i truely loved my character. I would love to see this in DDO. I know there is a small window of abuse easily controlled by the dev's but i think it would be excellent. For almost any character the cost of the feat for this as opposed to something else is a very respectable price to pay. Specially for something like a bard or sorcerer or cleric who does not get extra feats like a wizard does.

Shawhan