In Developement: New Spells and Enhancements for 4.2

[Conejo]

Incorrect. Fascinate in DDO has no DC at all. There's nothing to modify: you sing, they get mezzed. No save, no SR, no nothing.

they haven't fixed this **** yet? ***

[Freeman]

It's not an issue at all. You are polluting a thread that could potentially touch on important issues relating to the requirements for Warchanter and Spellsinger with a huge amount of text on an absolutely trivial aspect of the Virtuoso enhancement, which itself is barely more than trivial.

Yes, the fact that DDO has no use for Perform skill is a problem. But it's not a new problem, it isn't caused by these new changes, and there's no reason to talk about it here.

Um, okay then, would you point me towards the correct section to discuss this? I was under the impression this was the DDO Development Discussion section, but apparently it must be some other topic I didn't know about. The Virtuoso enhancement was introduced at the beginning of this thread, so the requirements for that enhancement should be a topic of discussion, just like Warchanter and Spellsinger. You have also been involved in the discussion, since I responded to several of your posts on the subject. My posts were no more off-topic than yours were. The lack of use for the Perform skill is an issue. If it can't be discussed in a thread where Perform feats and enhancements are involved, then I'm not sure where it would be appropriate.

[MysticTheurge]

Nice list of spells.

Now, let's see what we can do to get about this many released in every update.

If you need more inspiration... I made a list once.

[LordDamax]

Honestly, would you be happer if they removed the Bard: Perform II and replaced it with 3 more AP cost to the base enhancement? 7 instead of 4, or 9 instead of 6, or whatever the base cost it?

You are rallying the troops and chanting the war song over what amounts to you dropping 25 cents down a sewer grate.

It's a PREREQUISITE. The fact it does nothing is IRRELEVANT. You hawking about it in this thread just clutters this up for actual discussion.

If your point is that the prereq does nothing, then rant on, but you have no sympahy here. It's a prerequisite. Dont you think my warchanter is ****ed about having to spend 3 AP on inspire courage 2, an utterly useless enhancement given reaver rings and greater heroism?

If your point is that perform, in and of itself, should do something, then go start a DIFFERENT THREAD about it and discuss it there.

It's a prerequisute. Deal with it.

And ans for the hatred of the prereqs for Warchanter and the 'uselessness' of Weaon Focus... +1 to hit is HUGE, I've never had a comabt character that didnt have weapon focus. +1 to hit is better than +1 to damage any day.

[Gimpster]

And ans for the hatred of the prereqs for Warchanter and the 'uselessness' of Weaon Focus... +1 to hit is HUGE, I've never had a comabt character that didnt have weapon focus. +1 to hit is better than +1 to damage any day.

Except on days when I already hit every monster on a natural 2. Which for many characters means every day. (Barring Symbol of Pain)

[Gimpster]

Um, okay then, would you point me towards the correct section to discuss this? I was under the impression this was the DDO Development Discussion section, but apparently it must be some other topic I didn't know about.

The Development Discussion forum would be an appropriate place. A Weekly Development Activities thread is not.

[LordDamax]

Except on days when I already hit every monster on a natural 2. Which for many characters means every day. (Barring Symbol of Pain)

Well, awesome for you, Captain More-Awesome-Than-Everyone-Else. But when I get my guys up to a +42 to hit then maybe I'll respec it out, but since I am not capable of your unfallable arrogance and ability to never be wrong, I'll probably need that terrible feat until I can achieve your level of awesome.

I have ONE guy who can pull off a +34 consistantly, and he misses elite level content on more than a 2. The stupid wight myrmydons in PoP in the dolurrh room have an ac of 52+.

[Sem34]

So with Warchanter and the other bard Prestige Class is this how DDO is going to implement them???

[EspyLacopa]

Dont you think my warchanter is ****ed about having to spend 3 AP on inspire courage 2, an utterly useless enhancement given reaver rings and greater heroism?

You mean aside from the fact that the Bardsong can only be dispelled by cheating raid bosses?

Doesn't even get blown off by a Beholder's Anti-Magic eye.

How is that utterly useless again?

[Freeman]

Honestly, would you be happer if they removed the Bard: Perform II and replaced it with 3 more AP cost to the base enhancement? 7 instead of 4, or 9 instead of 6, or whatever the base cost it?

You are rallying the troops and chanting the war song over what amounts to you dropping 25 cents down a sewer grate.

It's a PREREQUISITE. The fact it does nothing is IRRELEVANT. You hawking about it in this thread just clutters this up for actual discussion.

If your point is that the prereq does nothing, then rant on, but you have no sympahy here. It's a prerequisite. Dont you think my warchanter is ****ed about having to spend 3 AP on inspire courage 2, an utterly useless enhancement given reaver rings and greater heroism?

If your point is that perform, in and of itself, should do something, then go start a DIFFERENT THREAD about it and discuss it there.

It's a prerequisute. Deal with it.

And ans for the hatred of the prereqs for Warchanter and the 'uselessness' of Weaon Focus... +1 to hit is HUGE, I've never had a comabt character that didnt have weapon focus. +1 to hit is better than +1 to damage any day.

I would be happier if Perform actually had a purpose in the game. I am not looking for sympathy. You are comparing it to Inspire Bravery 2, which gives you a bonus to Fear saves. Since I doubt many people are running around with Reaver rings and Greater Heroism at level 5 or 6, when you would have to take these, those bonuses actually could be useful at those levels. At no level are perform enhancements useful. Their usefulness isn't negated by items, it simply isn't there. If 3 action points is not significant to you, then run your characters having only spent 49 action points. It is the same thing. I suggested earlier that I would be fine with them shifting the requirement to the Diplomacy enhancements. That would have at least some benefit.

As for the Warchanter feats, the biggest complaint I have seen is the Power Attack requirement. I think people could live with the focus feat more than that. The Power attack requirement cuts out most TWF or Sword/Board builds, unless they want to take a feat they aren't likely to use.

The Development Discussion forum would be an appropriate place. A Weekly Development Activities thread is not.

I'll make sure to stop posting in that thread then. I guess that means this thread is okay though

[TEK]

The Development Discussion forum would be an appropriate place. A Weekly Development Activities thread is not.

which is absolutely hilarious since i had to travel to the development discussion forum to read this

[maddong]

I agree about nightshield blocking force missiles as overpowered. I'd probably end up taking it anyway to free up an item slot. I'd put a max hp force absorption like someone was talking about (they do that in PNP?).

I agree that Close Wounds is a worthless spell. Anyone that wants to burn mana that fast to do so little healing should just be alternating their cure spells. They should remove this spell, it doesn't add anything.

Warchanter is sick on a strength bard with 1 level of fighter. It is like they added focusing chant and warchanter just for me! +9/+7 song/spell on top of +11/+16 strength with -5/+10 power attack makes for some bad ass damage with displacement for yourself. My bard is all toughness except for power attack, extend spell, and 1 extra feat (which actually used to be weapon focus) so this is perfect. It would make sense to make it power attack or one of the weapon focuses (including ranged/thrown) though to broaden its appeal.

Virtuoso seems pretty worthless to me (+ useless skills, extra music when you already have enough, and a minor malediction which I guess is what you'd be spending those extra songs on). I'd much rather have a bard with warchanter (which helps all the melees) or spellsinger (which helps all the casters) with me.

And the toughness enhancement changes are still overpowered!

[LordDamax]

You mean aside from the fact that the Bardsong can only be dispelled by cheating raid bosses?

Doesn't even get blown off by a Beholder's Anti-Magic eye.

How is that utterly useless again?

You're right, I'm wrong. Bards everywhere take Inspire Courage before any other enhancement. Thanks for opening my eyes to my own stupidity. Compared to nearly every other enhancement bards get, Inspire Courage is BY FAR one of the BEST.

[maddong]

Is there any way to broaden the feat requirements for the Warchanter?

Since it seems to be catering to the Bardbarian, why not make the feat requirements: Power Atack AND (WF OR THF)

In its current form you are better off as a fighter for the extra feat (and longer lasting equipment). Having at most 3 really short rages is probably not worth it unless you really want the extra run speeeeeed. You can say but I want to go 4 barb/16 bard, but in that case I'd rather have the 3 feats and weapon spec.

[maddong]

That would make sense. Make it power attack OR martial weapon (similar to how spellsingers can use magical training....) OR improved crit (any) AND ....
Any weapon focus (any, including ranged/throwing).

That would allow for sword and board, bard multiclasses, and ranged bards to join in on the fun with the 2 hander bards (which I still think do better as fighters).

Upon further thought: POWER ATTACK???? Why that particular feat? Why not Martial Weapons or something, or Improved Critical? At lease open it up for those Bards who took a level in Fighter or Ranger and not just Barbarian. That would make more sense to me... Not all Battle Bards are 2-handed weapon weilding Bardbarians, some of us actually like to go sword and board...

My Battle Bard took a level of Fighter, uses Dwarven axes and sheild, has weapon focus slashing so he could get Improved Critical slashing (why is that anyway? it doesn't indicate there is a pre-req for Improved Crit, yet there is???). I have no desire to pick up Power Attack at all! Sillyness...

[EspyLacopa]

You're right, I'm wrong. Bards everywhere take Inspire Courage before any other enhancement. Thanks for opening my eyes to my own stupidity. Compared to nearly every other enhancement bards get, Inspire Courage is BY FAR one of the BEST.

You're welcome

[Aesop]

You mean aside from the fact that the Bardsong can only be dispelled by cheating raid bosses?

Doesn't even get blown off by a Beholder's Anti-Magic eye.

How is that utterly useless again?

cause it doesn't stack with my paladin's immunity to fear

or the fear immunity head piece thingy

or the reaver ring

none of which get dispelled... maybe a flaw of the magic item sytem but whatever

Aesop

[Gimpster]

You mean aside from the fact that the Bardsong can only be dispelled by cheating raid bosses?
Doesn't even get blown off by a Beholder's Anti-Magic eye.
How is that utterly useless again?

There's the fact that many characters already only fail a fear save on a natural 1. Items or buffs granting fear immunity are meaningful to them, but a save bonus is not.

Then there's the fact that beholders do not have fear-based spells, and raid bosses also do not have fear based spells.

The is the very occasional chance that a Beholder might have a Tharak Hound nearby, and that creature does have fear-based attacks. But once again, many players are looking to only fail the save on a natural 1.

Furthermore, notice that DDO allows you to drink a Remove Fear potion even under the effects of Fear. That is in violation of the PnP rules (because you shouldn't be able to take any action except running away), and it makes anti-fear buffs even less important.

[Gimpster]

I doubt many people are running around with Reaver rings and Greater Heroism at level 5 or 6, when you would have to take these,

No. These enhancements will not generally be taken at level 6 (and they cannot be taken at 5). The AP costs are such to make them unaffordable then. Plus, at level 5-6 there are no important fear effects. Any fear can be dispelled by clicking on a potion. It's only at higher levels that you face Mummy Despair and Phantasmal Killer, which cannot be personally cured.

[Gimpster]

Well, awesome for you, Captain More-Awesome-Than-Everyone-Else. But when I get my guys up to a +42 to hit then maybe I'll respec it out, but since I am not capable of your unfallable arrogance and ability to never be wrong, I'll probably need that terrible feat until I can achieve your level of awesome.

That response bears so little relationship to anything I actually wrote, that I think I'll be generous and not have you kicked from the boards for it.

PS. I'm +39 on the first swing.

PPS. On my caster.