Slay Living, time for a change

[Harbinder]

OK... but if the spell isn't "broken" then could we at least keep our SP since a monster that is behind us obviously CANNOT be cast upon then we shouldn't be losing SP from the spell being cast but saying we have to face them should we?

Why would you cast a spell at something behind you?

If the enemy is charging right towards you, and your spell misses, that's your fault.

[Luthen]

Why would you cast a spell at something behind you?

If the enemy is charging right towards you, and your spell misses, that's your fault.

Just curious. Do you play a cleric? If so do you ever use Slay Living? If not then you're not very well informed. If you do then I just dunno what to say. You have none of the problems other clerics have. If you are a front line cleric and you target a monster in front of you by the time you target it and move within range to cast it has either aggroed on you or another party member and moves. Often past you or to the side... either way it is no longer "line of sight" and the SP is wasted and the spell fails. I have been clericing a long time now. Since BETA in fact. So please extend your wealth of knowlege that seems to make you a better and wiser cleric then all the rest of those having this issue with touch spells.

[Vox]

god forbid you actually face your target AND be in touch range. slay living and the rest of spells that use this same mechanic are fine. perhaps the real problem lies a little closer to home.

I'll take one or the other but not both thanks... I can touch things I'm not facing, can't you?

Vox

[Lorein_Azura_Childs]

Slay Living should have the exact same range as Cure Light/Moderate/Serious/Crit/etc. Spell. Since all those spells are Range: Touch.

I wish. Well... that change may be just around the corner, whether everything becomes truly touch range, or the alternate being slay living having the ability to be casted from afar just like cure lines.

[Vox]

Why would you cast a spell at something behind you?

If the enemy is charging right towards you, and your spell misses, that's your fault.

Are you another one of those people that's incapable of touching something that's behind you?... man, seem to be a lot of limited mobility folks on this forum.

Vox

[Mad_Bombardier]

My main problem with such short-range spells is that the radius of casting is not very forgiving at short range, due to mob moving pretty fast. So you can be sure you're facing the target, but the game says you're not.
I'd like to see the "facing radius" increased at short range.

This should be done for ALL touch spells (Chill Touch, etc). They should have a 360-degree radius of effect but still be (very?) short range.

Hear, hear. I have no problem with "touch" range. But, given that it's so small, make it 360° and get rid of facing.

[Mad_Bombardier]

If the enemy is charging right towards you, and your spell misses, that's your fault.

That has to do with the game mechanic and it IS NOT OUR FAULT! Mobs are programmed to flank us. If you are casting when they try to flank, the following happens. You can turn your character and track the enemy, maintaining facing the whole time. But if the mob breaks facing of where you were when you started casting the spell, you get a facing error, even if you tracked the mob and manually changed your facing to compensate. It is very apparent with long cast spells, still apparent with short cast versus fast mobs, and IMO one of the most frustrating aspects of casting DDO.

[ebt-dnd]

I want to be able to cast like a monster. Also the +100 concentration checks too pls.

As far as I can tell, monsters don't have a concentration check at all. Plus they have an inexhaustable mana supply. Can I have those instead?

[llevenbaxx]

I protest this request. Dev's, you did a great job upgrading the AI. Some people will never be satisfied, don't cater to them.

Disagree that its a "cater to me" type of thing completely.

Its a "facing" thing. In PnP facing is pretty much a free action. Due to the mechanics of the game(im guessing), simply performance issues and/or wonky AI, mobs that were once standing in front of you are now off to the side or even completely behind you.

Ive suggested that they bring the free facing back into DDO. Make all touch range spells free of facing. If they are in touch range, the spell goes off. Simple right?

This is by no means a cater to anyone type of thing though. It IS very annoying thing to have mob standing there one sec only to be off to your side in the blink of an eye when your spell goes off... or doesnt go off. Doesnt happen all the time but it deos happen plenty that I always take note of it.

[Elfvyra]

As far as I can tell, monsters don't have a concentration check at all. Plus they have an inexhaustable mana supply. Can I have those instead?

Sure, you just have to stay in the same dungeon for eternity and never advance in lvl.

[Harbinder]

Just curious. Do you play a cleric? If so do you ever use Slay Living? If not then you're not very well informed. If you do then I just dunno what to say. You have none of the problems other clerics have. If you are a front line cleric and you target a monster in front of you by the time you target it and move within range to cast it has either aggroed on you or another party member and moves. Often past you or to the side... either way it is no longer "line of sight" and the SP is wasted and the spell fails. I have been clericing a long time now. Since BETA in fact. So please extend your wealth of knowlege that seems to make you a better and wiser cleric then all the rest of those having this issue with touch spells.

Yes I play a cleric, he's 2 months old my main is a Wizard so I am familiar with casting spells...As far as my wealth of knowledge it's pretty basic...you must face your target isn't something you need a high IQ to grasp. And there are spells that cast at targets behind you (at least some Arcane AOE).

[chimerasplice]

Something that needs to be considered in translation (which it seems is never the case in this game) is that pnp D&D ignores facing. not to mention that pnp D&D is in rounds, and that the chance of being able to walk up and touch something is pretty much guaranteed except in a few cases. not only this, but in pnp D&D touch spells stay on your hand for 1 round per caster level, so if something does jump out of the way, you can try again later provided you dont cast another spell. This all being considered, touch spells arent so bad in pnp. However with so many things in DDO, translation from pnp has been poor at best. The Devs have not considered that in real time, with an AI that has monsters jumping around like they are on crack (even oozes) touch spells are almost certain to be wasted, since there is no way to hold a touch spell's charge. If its not due to range, its due to the monster jumping over you behind your back. (again, oozes do this with amazing agility, despite their near-zero dexterity scores) With no such thing as an attack of opprotunity, these monsters are free to be acrobats without any penalty. You wont ever see any player able to jump behind a monster's back to dodge a touch spell, that is for certain.
To be perfectly honest, touch spells have no place in a game where every monster from kobolds to oozes to dragons move around like crackheads trained as professional acrobats. Sure, you want to simulate the pnp experience...but to tell you the truth, I have never faced a pnp monster that acted in real time in my round-based combats. This should be something to consider.

[Luthen]

Yes I play a cleric, he's 2 months old my main is a Wizard so I am familiar with casting spells...As far as my wealth of knowledge it's pretty basic...you must face your target isn't something you need a high IQ to grasp. And there are spells that cast at targets behind you (at least some Arcane AOE).

Well you got me there. I'm just to stupid to know that I have to face a monster to cast touch spells. I guess I'm also so dumb that I have no clue what I am talking about. Oh wait. I do know these things. Except, with few exceptions, most monsters will simply not stand still like a moron and let you do your Bippity Bobbity Boo on them. So either the AI needs to be adjusted or touch spells need some tweaking to be made more effective in a non-turn based environment.

But I'm sure you have some special retort for this comment as well and I will simply go over here and speak to this wall as it will likely hear what others have to say a little better then some people seem to.

[ebt-dnd]

Sure, you just have to stay in the same dungeon for eternity and never advance in lvl.

Well, can I come out on special event weekends and PVP people too?

[Harbinder]

Except, with few exceptions, most monsters will simply not stand still like a moron and let you do your Bippity Bobbity Boo on them. So either the AI needs to be adjusted or touch spells need some tweaking to be made more effective in a non-turn based environment.

Why are these the only two choices?

All you have said is; "The touch attack doesn't work when the enemy is running past me...so therefor the spell must be tweaked to be made more effective."

I see it the other way. Yes, I have had Slay Living get wasted because of what you mentioned, but I realized it was MY FAULT, not the AI. I pretty much won't cast Slay Living unless I'm sure it is gonna land ie: when the mob won't be running out of range or past me. What you've been playing a cleric all this time and still can't handle that?

[Harbinder]

Remember when charm spells would only work 50% of the time and even then the charmed mob would still attack you? That's something to ask for a fix for, not this.

[Harbinder]

Plus wouldn't you rather have the dev time go into tweaking other, more important stuff? Like bugs that have been in the game since, well, forever

[MysticTheurge]

Plus wouldn't you rather have the dev time go into tweaking other, more important stuff? Like bugs that have been in the game since, well, forever

Being charged for spells that don't actually get cast is a bug that's been in the game since forever.

[Harbinder]

*sigh* I'll have to go hunting for info, somewhere DDO tells you that you will waste mana and have your spells not go off under certain conditions ie: your party member ran around a corner while you was trying to buff/heal or the monster ran out of range of spell. or something like that.

Touch attacks are like that, same with PK and FoD, for a reason.

[MysticTheurge]

*sigh* I'll have to go hunting for info, somewhere DDO tells you that you will waste mana and have your spells not go off under certain conditions ie: your party member ran around a corner while you was trying to buff/heal or the monster ran out of range of spell. or something like that.

Touch attacks are like that, same with PK and FoD, for a reason.

Regardless of what you find, the Devs have already said they're working on fixing this. As I've pointed out several times in this thread. So I'm really not sure why we're still discussing it.