Trap in "Cabal for One" on elite

[Anathematic]

I know this issue has been raised before, and supposedly the difficulty on this trap was lowered in update 4.1, but apparently the Search DC on this trap is still a whopping 61.

After repeated searches of the forums, I've found that in most cases, the only two races that are able to achieve a Search skill this high are Drow and Dwarf, and that is with Skill Focus, a +15 item, and a +3 House D potion.

On my halfling rogue, I am currently able to max out at 51. If I find every "uber" item I can (+15 item, +2 INT tome, +6 INT item, +3 potion), I just might be able to get the skill up to 60.

So my question is, how exactly is this not an issue for all the rogues who aren't Elves or Dwarves? If I specifically built my rogue for this kind of thing, and I'm still unable to do it, what does that mean?

[Aspenor]

This is just my 2 cp:

It means that people are going to have to accept imperfection and just deal with it.

[negative]

This is just my 2 cp:

It means that people are going to have to accept imperfection and just deal with it.

But why is imperfection based solely on what race you choose, with no way to compensate (by using extra feats or items, etc)?

[Gol]

17 ranks
15 item
7 intel mod (16 start, 2 tome, 6 item = 24 int)
3 skill focus feat
2 luck
4 rogue skill enh
5 rogue boost
4 greater hero
2 way of the mechanic
1 find traps scroll via UMD

60 Search without race considerations or raid loot. Best I can do. I can hit 62 with a Human, 62 with a Dwarf, 64 with Elf/Drow.

Halflings and Warforged Rogues definately got the shaft.

[drachine]

So my question is, how exactly is this not an issue for all the rogues who aren't Elves or Dwarves? If I specifically built my rogue for this kind of thing, and I'm still unable to do it, what does that mean?[/QUOTE]

i'm not sure why rogues expect to find every box in the game.

i don't think DDO ever promised you would be able to find and disarm all traps, just that rogues "tend" to be best at doing so.

with that in mind i would say your expectations are too high or you need to get used to disappointment.

i always thought boxes were kind of lame anyway. why go to the trouble of designing this deadly intricate trap that some professional could just simply turn off?

[Gol]

i don't think DDO ever promised you would be able to find and disarm all traps, just that rogues "tend" to be best at doing so.

with that in mind i would say your expectations are too high or you need to get used to disappointment.

If the box is there, it was meant to be found and disarmed. Rogues happen to not only "tend" to be the best, but are in fact the only ones capable of doing so.

IMO, your expectations are off. It has nothing to do with disappointment. The OPs point is that Halflings/WF are totally shafted because they have no chance of hitting that box no matter what.

[Aspenor]

Personally, that trap in Cabal elite is the part in the quest (when I am on my thief) that I laugh maniacally at the rest of my non-improved evasion counterparts. I mock them and tease them and see how many times I can get them to die in the trap trying to loot it

If they had ninja skills like me, they wouldn't have that problem

[Wulf_Ratbane]

why go to the trouble of designing this deadly intricate trap that some professional could just simply turn off?

For the same reason that when you leave your car in the parking lot, you lock the door with a key, instead of soldering the door shut.

[Wulf_Ratbane]

Personally, that trap in Cabal elite is the part in the quest (when I am on my thief) that I laugh maniacally at the rest of my non-improved evasion counterparts. I mock them and tease them and see how many times I can get them to die in the trap trying to loot it

If they had ninja skills like me, they wouldn't have that problem

I suppose if you had close to 300 hit points like me, you wouldn't need improved evasion.

Regular evasion works just fine, your leetness.

[Aspenor]

I suppose if you had close to 300 hit points like me, you wouldn't need improved evasion.

Regular evasion works just fine, your leetness.

May be true nuff No need for personal attacks though.

[narizue]

If the box is there, it was meant to be found and disarmed. Rogues happen to not only "tend" to be the best, but are in fact the only ones capable of doing so.

IMO, your expectations are off. It has nothing to do with disappointment. The OPs point is that Halflings/WF are totally shafted because they have no chance of hitting that box no matter what.

The fact that the level 14 rogues cannot find a trap in a level 15 quest is not a problem IMO. Its actually refreshing. It may seem unfair that halflings and WF are the only races that have NO CHANCE to find the trap whatsoever at the current time, but I am pretty sure that their racial abilities more than compensate for this one trap.

Lets see, a +1AC across the board vs. not being able to find one trap. I will take it.

As to the WF, immunity to enervation, the single most irritating spell in the game IMO is well worth the inability to find that trap.

Yes they are behind the curve on their search. But they have advantages elsewhere.

Such is life.

[Elfvyra]

17 ranks
15 item
7 intel mod (16 start, 2 tome, 6 item = 24 int)
3 skill focus feat
2 luck
4 rogue skill enh
5 rogue boost
4 greater hero
2 way of the mechanic
1 find traps scroll via UMD

60 Search without race considerations or raid loot. Best I can do. I can hit 62 with a Human, 62 with a Dwarf, 64 with Elf/Drow.

Halflings and Warforged Rogues definately got the shaft.

Then, once you've found it, all you need to do is come up with 68+ DD to disarm it. Or was it 70? Sure hope the rogues have enough APs to invest in DD, too. I'm sure glad they toned that trap down, aren't you? Sigh....

[Emili]

Well Halflings are too short to search in the right spot while WF ... well they too rigid

That aside that comes with every race... they all have advantages and disadvantages. Especially in the the enhancement areas... looking across all the races you can see they all excell at certain classes thus making some races the best at a particular class - not to say others are not good in such classes but that they cannot not reach the top tier of stat/skill numbers. They do however have other advantages over the "top dog".

[Gol]

you mean 68+ DD to not risk blowing it up, I presume.

17 ranks
15 item
4 greater hero
3 skill focus
2 nimble fingers
7 +5 tools
6 stat mod
2 luck
4 rogue enh
5 rogue boost
65 total = 15% chance of blowing it up (rolls of 1, 2, and 3) seems perfectly acceptable.

[tihocan]

It's funny to see these "trap-monkey" rogues get frustrated on this trap. How hard is it to accept there is one trap in the game that is almost impossible to disable? It does not mean the game is broken or some races are unbalanced. This is one single chest that doesn't have anything special in it (as far as I know). I think we should be able to live with it

[linaewen]

my 2 cents: that chest is NOT the best chest in game (even with +1 loot) so looting it is NOT worth any death.

my opinion: even with a rogue, leave that chest alone, behind the secret door you have, of course, spotted.

[Talcyndl]

Personally, that trap in Cabal elite is the part in the quest (when I am on my thief) that I laugh maniacally at the rest of my non-improved evasion counterparts. I mock them and tease them and see how many times I can get them to die in the trap trying to loot it

If they had ninja skills like me, they wouldn't have that problem

Improved evasion or not, most anyone is going to die in that trap on elite. By all reports, you need a 40 reflex save to avoid the spikes, etc. once the box is open.

Do you actually save when looting that chest? On elite? If so, what's your reflex save and how do you get there?

[Cupcake]

I suppose if you had close to 300 hit points like me, you wouldn't need improved evasion.

Regular evasion works just fine, your leetness.

LOL

[negative]

I'm still not buying the fact that this solely comes down to a racial division of the can's and can not's. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Another poster talked about how some classes are more attuned to certain classes, and should have an advantage over other races for that class. Fine, I'll bite. A Halfling's favored class is ....Rogue. So explain to me again why a Halfling Rogue is being left behind in one aspect of rogue-like abilities?

Again, I'm just not buying this division of can's and can not's based solely on race. It should be based on feats, items, enhancments, skill investment, etc.

Here's a solution: Increase the DC of the trap high enough that NOBODY can search it out. Then we all can "get used to imperfection".

[Talcyndl]

Oh and I've said it before - and never gotten a good response justifying the "spot and search as failure points" design view...

If the designers want to ensure a level of failure, it should be on the Disable checks so that people can at least still succeed every once in a while. A chance of failure (even a very high one) makes for a much more exciting game. In fact, I did it on hard the other day and found the box (51 on the nose). But then I blew it up on a roll of 3 after failing on a 5. It was a thrill to watch the die hoping for a good roll.

But if I can't find the box EVER, I don't even get a chance to roll, and there's really not much fun in that.

Making the search DC as high as it is on elite ensures failure for probably over 99% of level 14 rogues. That chest may as well not be there on elite. That's certainly the view of most people running PUGs.