when will i be able to imp trip and stun red named bosses again?

[Ghoste]

/signed.

When the devs were asked why they gave these immunities to red named bosses, the only answer they ever gave was: ifplayers can make all the preparation to get all the right immunity items to prepare for specific fights, the best of the monsters (rednamed) should be able to do so too.

Following that logic, players should have long ago been able to find immunity items for trip, stunning blow, etc. When asked about that, the devs have remained silent. They refuse to follow their own logic through (with one small exception: we now have the acrobat enhancement available to rogues, a very exclusive and arguably not very useful line).

[Invalid_86]

Well how about this. Let us trip anything that can be tripped in DnD.

BUT

Make trip and knockdown effects work like they are supposed to. You don't lie there defenseless, unable to attack, waiting to pass a balance check. You still have your AC, you can attack while prone, you get up for free after a moment or so (equivalent of a move action in DnD) or you just tumble away. Throw in a free attack if you try to get up when in front of an opponent.

If you trip while unarmed or using a weapon that doesn't give a bonus to trip attacks your opponent gets a free attack on you if you don't have Improved Trip. If you fail...your opponent gets a free trip attack against you.

Trips are touch attacks- which is cool because with the introduction of Monks touch AC is way overdue- and the trip itself does no damage if successful.

Whoa! That actually sounds balanced and like DnD!

[Ghoste]

If you want to fully balance it out like PnP, add disarm, grappling and bull rushing! Could make some interesting builds around those combat tactics.

[Naso24]

I recall seeing something about how combat tactic clickies will be based on your highest bab in the future. So even if they are immune, it still may be worthwhile clicking away in a chain. Too bad trip and improved trip don't have independent timers.

[Invalid_86]

If you want to fully balance it out like PnP, add disarm, grappling and bull rushing! Could make some interesting builds around those combat tactics.

Grappling should be introduced with monks as many vicious monks are born grapplers. But like I said before how good monks are in DDO will depend heavily on how much of the missing things that should come with them actually comes with them!

Disarm would be great too, but I see the players screaming bloody murder when their favorite uber-whatever gets knocked out of their hands. But then again, what smart vampire or pit fiend WOULDN'T just disarm that barbarian that's waving the greater bane weapon in their face! Ha ha!

Bull rushing would be a great breaker-upper to all of the lame shield wall + wall of fire tactics that so many groups have come to rely on.

I am all for making monsters smarter rather than just bloating them to compensate.

[Solmage]

I'd like to see some immunities removed and replaced with (admittedly slightly cheesy) insight or some other BS bonus to make them more resistant to the effect.

Virtual immunity is a lot better than absolute immunity in my book. Yet where it makes sense, the specific red name should still be immune to some of the effects (no tripping of velah, I mean really. Maybe you can perform a stun maneuver by jumping into her mouth and causing her indigestion or something..) . But there are a lot less 'epic' red names that should be trippable, even if you need a very high roll to do it.

Nobody wants to see a sorcerer walk up to a red name and finger of death him with ease. But that same sorcerer casting greater dispel magic 20 times trying to get rid of the deathblock guard while dodging the counter attacks, and THEN using the finger, well now that just became interesting. Imho.

[Aesop]

Grappling should be introduced with monks as many vicious monks are born grapplers. But like I said before how good monks are in DDO will depend heavily on how much of the missing things that should come with them actually comes with them!

Disarm would be great too, but I see the players screaming bloody murder when their favorite uber-whatever gets knocked out of their hands. But then again, what smart vampire or pit fiend WOULDN'T just disarm that barbarian that's waving the greater bane weapon in their face! Ha ha!

Bull rushing would be a great breaker-upper to all of the lame shield wall + wall of fire tactics that so many groups have come to rely on.

I am all for making monsters smarter rather than just bloating them to compensate.

Disarm could either just kick it to their inventory or give a %damage penalty... I'm thinking the %damage penalty would be easier to code... and a nice little debuff that fighters could toss out there

Bull Rush... players goin all minotaur would be funny but I think it would end up lookin more like a Shield Bash that had the chance to push back and knock down.

grapple... that ones tough to code in a game like this I think


Aesop

[Kromize]

should make stat dmg work as well... (:

But I do understand that you cant vorpal them and whatnot...but why not make it so if u can use a special affect like that on them, it does like 10d6, instead of insta death?

Same goes for purple names!!!

[gelgoog]

this is an old post i did.....lol a year ago almost to the day lol.
yeah i still wish for the day blanket immunities were lessened.
but heck i am still enjoying the game nonetheless.

looks like we will have to see if they change anything silently when monks come out in mod 7.

as to the grapple. well if they can put this in this game it would be great.
i prefer the no mercy wwf game on the nintendo 64. now that is a grappling system! if that was in ddo where you can pick your grapplin' moves! that would be insane for me.

bull rush would be awesome. higher enhancement to bull rush the longer the distance and more damage you can do maybe?

disarm would be pretty cool to see especially with an animation of "where my weapon go?"

purple named bosses should be very powerful but still have saves.
red named bosses should be powerful...for there level and have saves.

the vorpal/banishing and so forth shouldn't work on them.....but maybe on normal setting for mission?......hmm.

Bah i rambling.

/shrug

[GlassCannon]

Making things fully immune to every form of major attack was and still is a bad idea.

"Hey Tim, these guys are just ripping this raid boss apart! Check it out!"


"Yeah, Al, they have it down to 10%... in 30 seconds?? Oh... someone Stunned it. Let's nerf that. They look to be using Greater Banes too. All of them. And Power Attack. I'm glad we nerfed every power weapon on these raids. Still, that needs to be hit with a Nerf Wrench."


"I don't think so, Tim"


"Shut up, Al."

[Borror0]

Making things fully immune to every form of major attack was and still is a bad idea.

"Hey Tim, these guys are just ripping this raid boss apart! Check it out!"
"Yeah, Al, they have it down to 10%... in 30 seconds?? Oh... someone Stunned it. Let's nerf that. They look to be using Greater Banes too. All of them. And Power Attack. I'm glad we nerfed every power weapon on these raids. Still, that needs to be hit with a Nerf Wrench."
"I don't think so, Tim"
"Shut up, Al."

hehe

Yeah, not a good idea. Red and Purple named are nothing both a DPS contest become of all these immunities...
At worse, I can see for Stunning Blow. As you said, it allows you to drop the mob fast... but Trip?

[Invalid_86]

hehe

Yeah, not a good idea. Red and Purple named are nothing both a DPS contest become of all these immunities...
At worse, I can see for Stunning Blow. As you said, it allows you to drop the mob fast... but Trip?

That's one of the dangers in just making stuff up to add to the game. We have to compensate for a feat that isn't in the PHB.

[Master_of_None]

I don't think it would actually be a big deal. Six seconds of auto-crits is a death sentence for most mobs, but with the hit points high-level red-named bosses have, at best it helps take him down a little faster. Land one at the beginning of the fight, and I think it's very unlikely most parties could kill a typical boss in six seconds.

[MysticTheurge]

it's just this simple: if my maximized empowered force missile works then the fighters trip should work.

These two things are not comparable.

One is Damage (DPS) and the other is not (it's Crowd control).

If force missiles work against a boss, then hitting it with a weapon should work.

If tripping a boss works, then other forms on CC, such as hold spells and so on, should work.

[Invalid_86]

These two things are not comparable.

One is Damage (DPS) and the other is not (it's Crowd control).

If force missiles work against a boss, then hitting it with a weapon should work.

If tripping a boss works, then other forms on CC, such as hold spells and so on, should work.

Yes, CCs should work. That's again a drawback to a spell points system- spam casting of a handful of spells, leading to lame immunities like these.

[N'venger]

How many do you think I land on the Reaver before he dies from DPS?

I'd say far more than 50, we agree that he'll be dead from a vorpal by then? Add other vorpals and FoD and PK. Raid bosses would drop too fast, 5% chance is too much.

Sorry.

How about this for a solution... suspend the auto-fail on 1 rule for red-named mobs. Then a bosses immunity depends on how high your DCs is. The DC for a lot of weapon affects would probably be too low in most cases. But high DC casters or tactical fighters could potentially land incapacitating effects on a red-boss mob (except where they possess a realistic immunity). That seems like a good solution to the problem to me. Alternatively, you could give red names a d50 to roll fpr DC checks, thus decreasing the likelihood of rolling a 1 to 2%.