Cabal of One: Disarm exceedingly hard traps = lose chest. Why?

[DNDJESS]

So with this quest, bringing a rogue actually costs you loot? Geez, aren't there enough quests where we're not wanted?

[MysticTheurge]

So with this quest, bringing a rogue actually costs you loot? Geez, aren't there enough quests where we're not wanted?

No.

Choosing a specific option costs you loot. You can bring a rogue and choose either option.

[Talcyndl]

No.

Choosing a specific option costs you loot. You can bring a rogue and choose either option.

Right. It's *using* the rogue that costs you loot.

Seriously though, even with the "no trap" choice there is still the secret room chest. Not that very many rogues can find the box. Dang that search DC is high - even on normal.

[Conejo]

Right. It's *using* the rogue that costs you loot.

Seriously though, even with the "no trap" choice there is still the secret room chest. Not that very many rogues can find the box. Dang that search DC is high - even on normal.

what's the DC on that bad boy?

[binnsr]

The Search DC for the secret room trap is between 40 and 47 on normal -- Our rogue couldn't find it with a 38, so I brought in my rogue after the quest was complete and was able to find it with a 47.
I have not been back since to try it on harder difficulties or to try normal with a lower (I had GH and used my skill boost, but didn't think to try it without the skill boost until I had already found it) search skill.

I don't recall getting a spot notice either -- but then, I didn't have my spot ring or Wis hat on since we already knew where it was.. something else to remember to check next time I'm there..

[Solmage]

With "A Cabal for One", we wanted to give you a choice and depending on your choice you would get a slightly different outcome. Of course, your first time through you won't know what your outcome will be, but on subsequent visits you can make the decision between xp and loot. The traps are challenging, but adding another tough boss to the end encounter is even more tough I believe, hence the extra chest for that path.

The extra "tough boss at the end" means that I'll need maybe 1 more fireball than without, and that only if he moved when I cast the other ones or somehow made his save when the other boss didn't.

Basically it adds oh about 4 seconds of extra difficulty, on elite. I'm sorry, but I think someone disarming all the traps should still get the chest. The inane trap difficulty is challenging enough in itself to warrant the extra xp, without having to punish loot.

Now, if instead of just spawning a boss, it would spawn about a strike team WITH the new boss charging at you from behind WHILE you're engaged with the first boss, then you'd have a decent point about extra difficulty for an extra chest.

However, even then I would still say it'd be fairly balanced to leave the extra chest in anyway: One way you avoid a lot of very hard traps, the other you avoid a very tough encounter. The way it is now is option A) very hard traps for no chest, or b) no traps + very easy extra encounter for chest. Hmmm. Not a tough choice.

[The_Rocking_Dead]

I think you guys are forgetting to mention that there's another chest in this quest which you practically need a rogue to open.

Also, like ElDorudo mentioned, We wanted to give players a choice, because you're always asking why none of the choices you make affect anything. Well, now some of your choices do make a difference, and you're forced to choose wisely. Do you want more XP because you brought a Rogue. Do you want the end fight to be a little easier because you don't have a full group? Do you not have a rogue in the group, and don't want to deal with traps? Do you simply want another chest? These are questions we wanted players to ask themselves.

Now, we know that 9 out of 10 times you're going to want the chest, which in that quest means you may not bring a rogue. But, that's why we have the other chest in there, meant to adequately challenge the skilled rogue.

[Pellegro]

I think you guys are forgetting to mention that there's another chest in this quest which you practically need a rogue to open.

Also, like ElDorudo mentioned, We wanted to give players a choice, because you're always asking why none of the choices you make affect anything. Well, now some of your choices do make a difference, and you're forced to choose wisely. Do you want more XP because you brought a Rogue. Do you want the end fight to be a little easier because you don't have a full group? Do you not have a rogue in the group, and don't want to deal with traps? Do you simply want another chest? These are questions we wanted players to ask themselves.

Now, we know that 9 out of 10 times you're going to want the chest, which in that quest means you may not bring a rogue. But, that's why we have the other chest in there, meant to adequately challenge the skilled rogue.

I don't think most of the players fully understood the choices or the ramifications. Now the cats out of the bag!

Personally - I like the added choices and variety and hope there is more of it in the future. Playing around with optionals, loot, xp, and having there be various "maximization" strategies is a great way to keep players on their toes, discovering new things, and the fresh factor up.

[Laith]

Now, we know that 9 out of 10 times you're going to want the chest, which in that quest means you may not bring a rogue. But, that's why we have the other chest in there, meant to adequately challenge the skilled rogue.

it's really a beautiful trap, but like many others, timing can render it impotent (we shouldn't post how here)

i often wonder if this is intended or not. running through an active trap leads to quite the rush, but then again, you'd think most traps would at least get one hit off no matter how you timed it.

[Balkas]

it's really a beautiful trap, but like many others, timing can render it impotent (we shouldn't post how here)

The chest is locked.

[Laith]

The chest is locked.

game, set, match.

[Conejo]

But, that's why we have the other chest in there, meant to adequately challenge the skilled rogue.

i don't know about adequately. i've seen a lot of complaining about that trap.

[Coldin]

i don't know about adequately. i've seen a lot of complaining about that trap.

I think a rogue to find that trap has to be completely min/maxed in terms of searching skill. We're talking high Int, +5 skill boosts, +4 rogue search skill from enhancements, Skill:Focus search, at least +10 search gear, and some buffs on top of that too.

It's far from being adequately skilled.

[MysticTheurge]

It's far from being adequately skilled.

He didn't say "challenge the adequately skilled rogue" he said "adequately challenge the skilled rogue."

[Talcyndl]

I think a rogue to find that trap has to be completely min/maxed in terms of searching skill. We're talking high Int, +5 skill boosts, +4 rogue search skill from enhancements, Skill:Focus search, at least +10 search gear, and some buffs on top of that too.

It's far from being adequately skilled.

I haven't seen exact DCs posted on that chest, but in my experience on normal, the Search DC is above 40.

[Talcyndl]

Now, we know that 9 out of 10 times you're going to want the chest

Thanks for the response. I think realistically speaking, it's probably more like 99 out of 100. The only groups I've heard about (intentionally) choosing the trap path are a couple organized by rogues who wanted to figure out the trap DCs.

I can't see any other group - whether they have a rogue or not - giving up a high end chest for 1 or 2,000 XP.

But I like the whole "choices have consequences" design philosophy. Just disagree on the implimentation here.

[Coldin]

So he did. But the wording doesn't really change the point. An adequate challenge to a skilled rogue shouldn't be impossible to find for most rogues on Normal.

I still think it's ridiculously high.

[MysticTheurge]

So he did. But the wording doesn't really change the point. An adequate challenge to a skilled rogue shouldn't be impossible to find for most rogues on Normal.

I disagree.

If it were open-able by most rogues then it wouldn't be an adequate challenge for the really skilled ones.

There's got to be some varying degrees of difficulty, this one's simply on the high end of things.

[Coldin]

I disagree.

If it were open-able by most rogues then it wouldn't be an adequate challenge for the really skilled ones.

There's got to be some varying degrees of difficulty, this one's simply on the high end of things.

Well frankly, I think the whole reason that trap is so high is because of all the rogues complaining about multi-classers being able to successfully find and disable all the traps.

But even then, you still don't need that min/maxed elf rogue to find that trap. All you need is someone to pick the lock. The lock DC isn't that high for anyone with +10 OL gear and maxed ranks. They can just re-try it till they get a high enough roll.

The thing is, if that trap is so hard to find on normal, it only gets exponentially as high as the difficulty goes up. No rogue is going to be able to find that trap unless they're completely to the trap smithing roll, have the extra racial search enhancements, skill focus, and all sorts of other help. Even then I don't think people will be finding it.

It's very frustrating when you're a rogue, and devoted quite a few enhancements to your search skill, and are just barely scraping by.

[MysticTheurge]

It's very frustrating when you're a rogue, and devoted quite a few enhancements to your search skill, and are just barely scraping by.

Maybe I just don't see how not being able to find one trap means you're "just barely scraping by."