Cabal of One: Disarm exceedingly hard traps = lose chest. Why?

[Talcyndl]

So putting aside the incredibly high DCs on the traps in here (which I suspect are to get people used to the idea of higher DCs in subsequent content and are based on folks taking the "Way of the Mechanic" enhancement line)...

Why is this quest designed to punish a group that decides to not fall for the double cross?

I sort of understand the "well you kill him now, so he's not there at the end to spawn a chest" story line. But wouldn't it make just as much sense (if not more) that his chest is still there at the end even though he's dead?

And more to the point, if you want to reward high end (and I mean HIGH end) trapsmithing skills, why take away a nice chest from the party that chooses to try and disarm the traps?

[Jorval]

They do the same thing in BAM. Finish by non-combative means, you get an XP bonus, finish by fighting, you get two extra chests...

[Talcyndl]

They do the same thing in BAM. Finish by non-combative means, you get an XP bonus, finish by fighting, you get two extra chests...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in Cabal of One you still have to fight everything along the way - while dealing with the traps. And you even have to fight the same bosses. You just get the slight advantage of not having two bosses in the same room at the end - because you killed one at the beginning.

Seems to me that there is no real justification for punishing the group by removing one of the chests.

[MysticTheurge]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in Cabal of One you still have to fight everything along the way - while dealing with the traps. And you even have to fight the same bosses. You just get the slight advantage of not having two bosses in the same room at the end - because you killed one at the beginning.

Seems to me that there is no real justification for punishing the group by removing one of the chests.

I don't think it was a suggestion that the CfO trap method is a non-combative method, just that it's an alternative, like the non-combative method in BAM, that results in fewer chests.

[Laith]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in Cabal of One you still have to fight everything along the way - while dealing with the traps. And you even have to fight the same bosses. You just get the slight advantage of not having two bosses in the same room at the end - because you killed one at the beginning.

Seems to me that there is no real justification for punishing the group by removing one of the chests.

the group by the first trap (fire) was definately gone if you don't have him disarm traps. having not gone any further than that, i couldn't say how many mobs were gone.

basically, we gave it a try, and when our rogue couldn't even spot/search the first trap, we reconsidered doing it this way

[Talcyndl]

I don't think it was a suggestion that the CfO trap method is a non-combative method, just that it's an alternative, like the non-combative method in BAM, that results in fewer chests.

Well it obviously results in one less chest.

The question is whether it should?

I can understand a quest design that says: if you choose a path that makes the quest easier, you lose part of the reward.

But in Cabel of One, having to disarm all the traps is hardly an easier way to complete the quest. In fact, it's probably a much harder overall way to complete the quest.

[Talcyndl]

the group by the first trap (fire) was definately gone if you don't have him disarm traps. having not gone any further than that, i couldn't say how many mobs were gone.

basically, we gave it a try, and when our rogue couldn't even spot/search the first trap, we reconsidered doing it this way

Well if all the enemies are gone, I retract my criticism.

Guess I'll have to see if I can convince a group to let me try the traps (just not on elite).

[Phesic]

Well it obviously results in one less chest.

The question is whether it should?

I can understand a quest design that says: if you choose a path that makes the quest easier, you lose part of the reward.

But in Cabel of One, having to disarm all the traps is hardly an easier way to complete the quest. In fact, it's probably a much harder overall way to complete the quest.

But you do get an extra 10 percent XP.

[Talcyndl]

But you do get an extra 10 percent XP.

Know of any group that would trade one of the end chests for an extra 10% XP?

Me neither.

[Eldorudo]

With "A Cabal for One", we wanted to give you a choice and depending on your choice you would get a slightly different outcome. Of course, your first time through you won't know what your outcome will be, but on subsequent visits you can make the decision between xp and loot. The traps are challenging, but adding another tough boss to the end encounter is even more tough I believe, hence the extra chest for that path.

[Aspenor]

hehehe chests are optional, not required.

Sure it's a high level chest, but we don't always get everything. Such is life.

[Shrazkil]

Hmm well other then not being able to spot them, the traps were extremely easy on elite to search and disable for my wiz/rog . 53 disable is still no fail.

[Shade]

With "A Cabal for One", we wanted to give you a choice and depending on your choice you would get a slightly different outcome. Of course, your first time through you won't know what your outcome will be, but on subsequent visits you can make the decision between xp and loot. The traps are challenging, but adding another tough boss to the end encounter is even more tough I believe, hence the extra chest for that path.

Think the point of this thread was to say that most players agree disarming the traps is far more difficult and less rewards then not disarming them and fighting an xtra boss.

He is incredibly easy to kill, wheather you fight him at the start or at the end doesn't really change that much. Id bet that having him there has never caused any groups to whipe where they may have won the fight, or even close to that.

It should be the other way around. Don't have him disable the traps, rogue does it and you get xtra treasure (and the 10% trap bonus), but ofcourse also extra danger and resources to get it.

In a game where you can do less then half the new quests and hit the XP cap again, XP is not nearly as valuable as loot. (Something I did on my main, capped xp with only the main area, and most side quests done without barely touching the actual lvl14 quests I was capped)

[Macrawn]

Well, I think that disarming a very hard trap ought to be rewarded perhaps even more than fighting two bosses at the same time. It gives the rogues more use and value to have in the party. There isn't a group out there that could care at all about the xp. Not all rogues have the skills to disable all those hard traps. So what if you get 10 percent more. You will be capped again in a couple of weeks anyway.

I like the idea of choice, but the choices should each lead to something interesting and unique at the end. 10 percent xp is of no value to any high level group.

The only thing the disarming choice would lead to is a bunch of angry mobs yelling at the rogue for disabling the trap and ruining the chances for an extra chest.

[Talcyndl]

The traps are challenging, but adding another tough boss to the end encounter is even more tough I believe, hence the extra chest for that path.

Thanks for the reply. Not sure I agree based on the DCs of the traps being reported. But nice to know the thought was there.

Oh and btw, love the new area and quests. :thumbs up:

[Talcyndl]

And just to add...

I think pretty much every group would decide on the extra fight option versus the trap option even if the rewards were the same.

To me, that signals that the trap choice is more difficult/challenging/annoying or whatever should factor into the reward level.

[Conejo]

The only thing the disarming choice would lead to is a bunch of angry mobs yelling at the rogue for disabling the trap and ruining the chances for an extra chest.

speaking as a player of a rogue, i think this statement will wind up being true.

"stupid rogue, we didn't want traps, we wanted loot!"

[fefnir3284]

Hmm well other then not being able to spot them, the traps were extremely easy on elite to search and disable for my wiz/rog . 53 disable is still no fail.

hush you. I got a dd of 44-47 and an open lock of 39-44 and can do alright, yet I still cant search or sopt a darn thing (30-36 in those skills). so the last thing I need is someone telling them their still too easy. i think they need to drop the spot ans searches, not raise them

<btw, sup shraz, you munchkin >

[silverraven]

hush you. I got a dd of 44-47 and an open lock of 39-44 and can do alright, yet I still cant search or sopt a darn thing (30-36 in those skills). so the last thing I need is someone telling them their still too easy. i think they need to drop the spot ans searches, not raise them

Yeah!!! Woot! I second that motion. Anyone who thinks the new traps are too easy obviously doesn't play a rogue and should not jinx anything by saying the traps aren't difficult and causing the devs to up the ante by jacking them up.

[Gratch]

He is incredibly easy to kill, wheather you fight him at the start or at the end doesn't really change that much. Id bet that having him there has never caused any groups to whipe where they may have won the fight, or even close to that.

Actually in PUGing Cabal on elite with a group we wanted the extra chest... after charm removing all the other mobs... our scattered fighters got pretty bashed by the double boss mobs together... mostly as one kept HEALing them both and with so many HP on elite... very tough. Almost wiped... then we got smart and reapproached it in a more DoT concentration method. Worked better that way.