Hirelings

[luste]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

[zehnvhex]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever.

However.

We face 3 problems.

1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.

2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.

[glmfw1]

However.

We face 3 problems.

1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.

2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.

Albus and Garret are essentially the same hireling, just at different levels.
Wyoh and Erytheia are also essentially the same hireling at different levels, only Ery has more practical armour, and has TRed into an elf.
It shouldn't be too much of a stretch to update these hirelings with better Stats for top level gameplay.
Same AI, same visual can be used, just swap out armour... fairly low on the development time relative to creating a new hireling entirely, especially as it has already been done once before, but makes things slightly more viable for soloing and small grouping at the highest levels. Because they are essentially the same hirelings as before, there shouldn't be a huge fuss from people who are anti-hireling, as the people who want them are currently hiring the existing ones i.e. no real impact on grouping beyond the existing impact of hirelings.

Rogues are another matter... until epic levels, rogues are AS/DDO point purchases only. I suspect most people who use hirelings don't think of hiring rogues before epic and just live with the loss of Optional XP or loot from locked chests. There's then a period where all these possibilities become viable, then they disappear again. Many people I know didn't realise that Epic rogue hirelings for platinum existed, because they hadn't thought to look, due to an expectation from heroics of not finding them. Adding higher level Rogue hires with better stats, with the attendant publicity that comes with new releases, would probably raise more issues with the anti-hireling crowd, as it could have more of an impact on grouping - people who put up LFMs purely in the hopes of a rogue may stop putting up LFMs, therefore less grouping. It probably wouldn't be difficult for the Devs to give us a lvl 29 or 30 Iessin lookalike in some Ravenloft armour, just with upped stats, but there would likely be a lot more resistance to this than to the Cleric/FvS hires.

[caberonia]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever
-Snip-

A permenant hireling system in which your able to level/equip etc your hire would be solid gold and worth a good chunk of TP to me and i'm sure many others. There is some precendent for it considering classes gain followers in DnD. So lore wise it would work and i would even suggesting naming them Followers to prevent any confusion with hires.

To add to your Hireling issues
- They haven't been updated in many years and are sub par due to changes in mechanics such as PRR, MRR etc.

[Plantasiax]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels ...

I love to know this too.

... as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, ...

With my rogue-toon lvl 29, the cleric lvl27 (at the marketplace) and the rest lvl25 or lower, it is possible to play the Ravenloft quests at Casual-lvl, but playing the first castle-quest at normal (= lvl 31), it seems to be a very hard job to survive it, without re-entering.

I miss the hirelings between level 25 and max.

I know some hirelings don't differ except their levels, I know some hirelings have trouble with attacking, staying-put, defending, or even coming immeditately, but when their levels don't rise with the player-levels, high-lvl quests will be unable to play, when playing solo.

... so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

Please please please please please ...

[PermaBanned]

Over in the Arti & Druid update threads the Devs have mentioned (w/usual caveats) that there's potentially some Arti/Druid Pet work in the forseeable future. Obviously wont help the Hireling level issues mentioned, but any Pet AI work would I suspect bleed over to Hireling AI; so maybe some reliefe there.

[EvadEvad]

I would stand by everything the OP said on this. That is my final word and I will not be swayed. Ever.

[Andu_Indorin]

I am presently planning to suspend my subscription until they improve melee performance vis casters. And every time my FvS CC/healer fails to shrine while questing, in frustration I wonder whether I should add the "fix the ****** hirelings" as a precondition to renew my subscription at some future date.

[Algreg]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

[luste]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

Well I had to reply to this my fighter is a very strong Build 112 ac and prr and mrr over 100 but does not have the skills to disable traps or find hidden doors. What I am saying I wasted tp getting the highest rogue level 24 and they cant find ziltch, to heal self I use cacoon and Silver Heal potions, my beef is I like to play alone and I can handle hard quests level 32 but I don't like to waste good tp on a Hire that is not up for the level quest. I am only a first lifer and never gonna TR unlike people I just don't want to go on the long road to get to 30 again I play for fun.

[Qhualor]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

I don't use hires like some kind of crutch. I use them for levers, trap xp and so I don't waste so many heal pots in quests. I use hires all the time and when they die in quests I don't suddenly panic thinking I'm not going to make it through the fight. instead I just pick up their soulstone and the next shrine I come across I raise them. I wont even waste a res scroll on them.

I agree with the OP. we do need some higher level hires.

[Dalris_Thane]

A permenant hireling system in which your able to level/equip etc your hire would be solid gold and worth a good chunk of TP to me and i'm sure many others. There is some precendent for it considering classes gain followers in DnD. So lore wise it would work and i would even suggesting naming them Followers to prevent any confusion with hires.

I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.

Oh, and, speaking personally, content that needs groups of RL people... like, say, raids... is content that I cross off. I'll never do them.

I only joined DDO as a VIP because I heard that poor players like me could do (most of) the content on Casual with my character and hirelings.

I bought some expansions purely for Permanent Hirelings, and I'm just waiting and hoping that the Ultimate Ravenloft Bundle gets a 75% off this/next Christmas like past expansions just for those 2 permanent hirelings.

[AbyssalMage]

Hirelings have been a touchy subject for awhile now in DDO.

You could say that again

I absolutely loved the companion system in SW:TOR personally (or at least the small sampling of it I got up through level ~30 or so at release). I liked how they grew with you, you could equip them, etc...

And I always thought it'd be nice to have a similar system in DDO. Artificers/Druids already kinda have it with their doggo's but I'd love to have seen it taken one step further. Even if it was a paid feature I'd be okay with it. Platinum seal hirelings that level up with you, have equipment slots, etc... You can assign them a personality or whatever.

I've actually wondered why they haven't implemented such a system in DDO (even though I come from a different MMO). The programming is already there. They are about to do some work on the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion, and were pretty successful with the Wizard Skeleton Enhancement line.

I do like that you call it "Platinum" line.

However.

We face 3 problems.

Man, just had to include the reasons why we can't have one ()

1 - There are some rather...zealous individuals...that believe hirelings are the reason nobody groups anymore. They will shout down and be vehemently anti-anything that allows for a better solo play experience.

Haha, "Zealous."

2 - The AI is...touched to say the least. I think it was around u16 or something (there's been a lot of alcohol between then and now) when they tried to fix AI and made it worse. AI has been left in the horrid state it's been in since. I believe Torc or Steel promised to look into it one day, or maybe that was stealth. Dunno, hard to keep track of things they've broken and have promised to one day fix ^_^.

3 - Development time. SSG is pretty obviously stretched thin and they are never short on things they could be working on. Remember the One Thing Thread? Since the 'big patch' that was released after it they've fixed like...2 more things on that list. Fixing hirelings ranks pretty low unfortunately.

I think it could work if they actually placed it in the Marketplace (so no using TP points). This would provide them with the funding to implement and produce material that a section of the community wants. If they do a good job, they will have lots of sales. They do a poor job, and it will languish in obscurity. Each "Platinum" hireling would be individually sold to boost revenue. The safest would be to produce a "Tank" and "Healer" for purchase. Gauge the community reaction, "Did we do a good enough job?" and then do future releases based on that.

In the end I could see them doing many great things with such a system. They could make it interesting (to increase sells, of course /wink) by using non-humanoid NPC's. We already have a Scarecrow, Lioness, and Puma "Tanks". Memphit, Abishi, Medusa "Sorcerers", anyone? Monkey (using Madmen model), Crow/Parrot, Werewolf "Tricksters"? There are just so many possibilities. Which is a DDO hallmark.

Finally, because they would be "better" than a standard Hireling (because they would (a) level with you, (b) enhancement customization, like Wolf and Dog-dog, and (c) gear slots available) there would need to be some other limiter (other than using real $$$ in the Marketplace) and I would argue a platinum upkeep in-game (i.e. something to soak up PP). Currently contracts operate every hour/use. Because these are permanent, have them have a reoccurring charge every 15 minutes, on summon. If you can't pay the "Upkeep" they simply return to the tavern, forest, cave, ect... until you have the funds to pay them again.

(Can you tell, I am not one of those "Zealots?"

[CaptainPurge]

Have you considered data-driven behavior change to solve the problem?

[glmfw1]

Build for not having need of hirelings. Seriously, yes, that is somewhat of a "l2p" post, but I don´t really mean it as a stab. Hirelings hold you back. You will realize that soon enough when you try and you will enjoy the game a lot more. I am glad people told me how much I sucked for having to rely on hirelings when I started out. They are not worth the whole AI BS, you will be relieved.

Running solo+hire doesn't mean you are incapable of being a meaningful part of a group when you don't have a hire. Hirelings only hold you back if you depend on them throughout the whole quest.
If you want Death Ward, Restoration and Resurrection capabilities, you can summon a hireling, get them to cast on you, then park them by the door, calling them if needed.
If you can chug potions, but go through a lot, a hire can be a cheaper option, so park them and call them to you when needed for the tough fights.
If you aren't a rogue or arti, but want to get the optionals behind locked doors or want to make corridors safe (sometimes you need to backtrack to get to a shrine), you can park the hire, then call it when needed.
If you are soloing, due to timing issues or real-world distractions (sometimes you want to complete yourself, so you get enjoyment out of it, rather than entering and piking, because everyone else finished while you were on the phone), the hireling(s) can allow you to pull levers, stand on multiple spots etc, making unfinishable quests to be completed - you can call them when needed, then park them in safety for the rest of the time.

In all these scenarios, you want the hirelings to be competent at their function and not get accidentally killed due to having an AC/PRR/MRR far too low for survivability. The player is the one doing the bulk of the work, and most solo+hire-ists are built for not needing hirelings... except in the scenarios where someone else or someone specialised in something that's not part of the player's build is required.

[Niminae]

What I would like to know as a person which uses Hirelings/Mercs when are they gonna update the levels as quests are 33 and a Rogue is 24 level Hire. These can no longer be any use they cant disable traps or find hidden doors and Healers are a joke max 27 cleric and 25 FVS even if the developers was to boost these mercs would be a great help as I spend a lot of TP from store and now they are a waste, so please can you not just up the Quests think of people who love to play solo. I await answers from DEVS to respond or peoples thoughts and please don't say get a group as some players just Zerg or don't play the way I love to play.

Hirelings are useful for a few situations. Healers are probably the most popular use for them. But they can be used for trapping if you buy a gold seal hire. I'm not completely sure on this as I haven't done this in years, but I think that you can spend a few store points and pick up a trapper. I'd opine that a trapper hireling is less important than a healing hire, since a trapper only gets you some bonus XP and a healer hire can keep you alive. And the healing hires don't cost store points.

Healer hires can also apply Deathward and other handy buffs.

The 3rd level Cleric that you get with the $10 Starter Pack is very handy. She can restore mana as well as HP, and you can summon her anywhere in a quest since she is a gold seal hire.

Even if you don't care to use hirelings as an assistant for your questing they can be very helpful. If you summon and park a hireling at the start of a quest it can be used as an emergency button if things go pear shaped. You can call the hire to you for a resurrection and that might save an otherwise failed run.

I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.

DDO Points are direct money. Yeah you can earn Store Points by running content... But perhaps you're referring to things like the first two expansions which are only able to be bought with cash.

The programming is already there. They are about to do some work on the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion, and were pretty successful with the Wizard Skeleton Enhancement line.

There are no planned changes for the Artificer Pet and Wolf Companion. These are only things the devs have said that they would like to do, but then they would like to do a lot of things. If there is no release date for some mechanic it isn't worth planning for. The change to Arti and Druid pets that eliminates the HP and mana penalties when they die is a good and very needed change.

[Spadedragon]

I find epic hirelings to be extremely sub par.It's not uncommon to see epic hirelings one shotted.Epics hirelings need to be increased 2 to 3 times stronger to keep up with current meta.The lack of higher level skilled hirelings makes it harder for new and solo players.The worst part is that devs don't want to improve hirelings because they suck and hirelings will continue to suck because devs don't want to work on them-catch 22.

[luste]

[QUOTE=Niminae;6083765]Hirelings are useful for a few situations. Healers are probably the most popular use for them. But they can be used for trapping if you buy a gold seal hire. I'm not completely sure on this as I haven't done this in years, but I think that you can spend a few store points and pick up a trapper. I'd opine that a trapper hireling is less important than a healing hire, since a trapper only gets you some bonus XP and a healer hire can keep you alive. And the healing hires don't cost store points.

Healer hires can also apply Deathward and other handy buffs.

The 3rd level Cleric that you get with the $10 Starter Pack is very handy. She can restore mana as well as HP, and you can summon her anywhere in a quest since she is a gold seal hire.

Even if you don't care to use hirelings as an assistant for your questing they can be very helpful. If you summon and park a hireling at the start of a quest it can be used as an emergency button if things go pear shaped. You can call the hire to you for a resurrection and that might save an otherwise failed run.


If you had read my previous posts your see Gold Seal Rogue top level is 24 and not able to remove a trap or find a hidden doors , all im asking is to up the potential for them to do this nothing worse than running back to a shrine or need to back track by getting killed or damaged by a trap. I do have Jibbers to rezz my self for 30 secs but this is not always a option. As for cleric they do need a help up on with standing to stay alive due to the change of targetting 1 mob and find nearly half the dungeon comes with them unlike few years ago ranger or arti could pick 1 off at a time i did think they was gonna put this back to the way it was but alas this will never be.

[Saekee]

look what you provoked!

[caberonia]

I would pay money for permanent Followers like you describe. Not DDO points. Direct money.

Money, TP.. whatever. Store or market it would be on my must have list as long as they didn't get stupid greedy like they did with the top tier RL package.. not paying a crazy amount for it but definately would buy it if it was reasonable. actually if THAT would have been included in the top tier RL package i coulda convinced myself to buy it. But I digress.