Remove MRR Armor Caps

[Carpone]

Situation:

Anyone spending time in Legendary Ravenloft has experienced being absolutely decimated by spells:

* DoT spells such as Niac's Biting Cold, Eladar's Electric Surge, Black Dragon Bolt, and Burning Blood.
* AE spells that are ignoring saving throws for half damage, such as Cyclonic Blast.
* AE spells that are not mitigated by MRR, such as Horrid Wilting.

Background:

The primary mitigation mechanic to reduce spell damage in DDO is Magical Resistance Rating. When the MRR cap was first introduced, it wasn't even possible to reach the arbitrary artificial cap for cloth wearers (Sorcerer, Wizard, Monk) because of the lack of itemization, past life feats and enhancement changes. Now it's commonplace for cloth armor wearers to hit the cap by equipping one item. While not as epidemic, light armor wearers (Rogue, Ranger, Artificer, Bard, Warlock) can hit the 100 MRR cap.

Reference:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Magical_Resistance_Rating
http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating

Assessment:

The problem with MRR is the arbitrary artificial cap based on armor type. Cloth armor wearers are all too keenly aware of this. MRR cap is easily met by equipping just one legendary item. There's no point in considering an Insightful, Quality, Mythic or Artifact item bonus, or enhancements that increase MRR. This does not align with DDO's core principle of character customization.

No MRR benefit from Deep Gnome or Warlock past lives can be realized at level cap for cloth wearers, unless the Beacon of Magic set is worn. Unfortunately due to the typing of the DC bonus (Artifact), it doesn't stack with Slave Lords Sorcery set which is superior. Six past lives is a huge investment not to reap the rewards from. DDO thrives because of the TReadmill. Don't give players another reason to not TR. There are enough of those already.

Recommendations:

1. Remove artificial MRR caps based on worn armor type. PRR doesn't have an artificial cap based on armor worn, and no one is complaining about characters running around with too much PRR in cloth armor.

[Selvera]

I've also spoken on the problems of the MRR cap. They are numerous and they are arbitrary. Please remove it, and replace it with a better system which does what it was supposed to do, except correctly.

[lyrecono]

The devs mentioned they were doing this somentime ago, expect it to be comming soon.

Prr has a cap. You'll eventually run into a virtual wall of diminishing returns, where raising it becommes too expencive for barely any return

[Amundir]

If only there were ways to resist or absorb certain types of elemental damage...
</sarcasm>

[Tom116]

Recommendations:

1. Remove artificial MRR caps based on worn armor type. PRR doesn't have an artificial cap based on armor worn, and no one is complaining about characters running around with too much PRR in cloth armor.

Increasing MRR cap:
Few rare effects exist that allow your character to increase the MRR cap restriction imposed by your armor.

Beacon of Magic item sets: +10 heroic / +20 legendary for three piece item set
Nystul's Mystical Defense: +40 for five piece filigree set


Both of the above are from Ravenloft items which are bound on acquire. If they remove the cap, they lessen the incentive for players to buy Ravenloft. It would be nice for them to do so, but it is also unlikely because of that.

As a sidenote, the enchantments on robes giving people this much PRR would be pretty funny to see. Imagine someone being hit full force with a warhammer only for it to barely bruise them because of their robe they were wearing lol

[cru121]

removing mrr cap might look like a good idea
then again
do monks and casters need more power? are these two archetypes at the bottom of the power scale these days?

[glennson]

I too feel strongly that the cap on MRR is not appropriate.

I'm not wholly against capping MRR or PPR based on armor type in order to balance the game but it should be more logical, or at least in line with PnP logic.

A heavily armored fighter should be more susceptible to a lightning bolt than a wizard in robes.

In fact since the robes we all wear in this game are magically imbued it would be appropriate to add a boost to MRR similar to the bonus to PRR (based on armor type and bab) but scaled inversely hence robes would provide the largest innate bonus to MRR and heavy armor would provide none.

Any capping to MRR or PRR should be in line with this logic, so perhaps heavy armor would have a MRR cap and robes might have a PRR cap.

Regardless a cap of 50 or even 100 is far too low without ways of raising the cap(s), through feats and enhancements, not just gear.

[Arkat]

I'd be in favor of raising the MRR cap to 100 for Cloth Armor and to 150 for Light Armor.

Not sure the MRR cap should be removed entirely, though.

[Yamani]

I too feel strongly that the cap on MRR is not appropriate.

I'm not wholly against capping MRR or PPR based on armor type in order to balance the game but it should be more logical, or at least in line with PnP logic.

A heavily armored fighter should be more susceptible to a lightning bolt than a wizard in robes.

In fact since the robes we all wear in this game are magically imbued it would be appropriate to add a boost to MRR similar to the bonus to PRR (based on armor type and bab) but scaled inversely hence robes would provide the largest innate bonus to MRR and heavy armor would provide none.

Any capping to MRR or PRR should be in line with this logic, so perhaps heavy armor would have a MRR cap and robes might have a PRR cap.

Regardless a cap of 50 or even 100 is far too low without ways of raising the cap(s), through feats and enhancements, not just gear.

I actually agree, cloth should have highest MRR and a PRR cap while heavy armor should have highest PRR and a MRR cap.

[Selvera]

As explained before:

Prr does not have a cap; nor does it have diminishing returns.

There are ways to resist or asorb certain types of elemental damage. But not all types; and non-capped characters get this too; it's already built into the game's balance.

The ravenloft sets which raise your MRR cap are exclusively focused on caster items.

Monks and Casters don't need more power right now... in high level reaper at cap. But that is a very specific problem and has nothing to do with the MRR cap. I have proposed ways for each of those to be more in line with other character's power levels. (One specific item is the only reason monks are meta right now, and casters are only meta due to the outdated DC system).

Raising the MRR cap does not fix the MRR cap problems. It just allows for more power creep. The problem is derived from the fact that it has no effect on low level characters and a huge effect on high level characters, and disincentives a lot of gear/pastlives/build options.

Introducing a PRR cap would be taking a poorly implemented system and extending it to effect more people/builds.

[Carpone]

The devs mentioned they were doing this somentime ago, expect it to be comming soon.

Soon, like the FvS enhancement pass that was mentioned in the Sep 2016 producer letter and still has not been delivered?

Prr has a cap.

Not an arbitrary artificial cap.

[Carpone]

If only there were ways to resist or absorb certain types of elemental damage...
</sarcasm>

How much gear do you think is reasonable to dedicate towards absorb and/or resist? The dots commonly found in legendary Ravenloft are ice, fire, acid and electricity based.

My two raid-geared toons already have 9% elemental absorb from 9x Epic Arcane past lives, and use Epic Divine Past Life Block Energy x3.

[Tyrande]

instead of removing the MRR caps, how about lowering your reaper difficulty and/or wearing a spell absorption item?

Too bad Spell Mantle/Greater Spell Mantles/Spell Absorption and Greater Spell Absorption spell(s) are not implemented; but you can lobby for it? (used after counter spells)

[Cantor]

I agree that there should be PRR caps for robes/light armor with some monk skills/stances increasing the cap.

MRR caps should be based on the enhancement value of armors, not the type. This addresses the scaling issue someone brought up.

[Carpone]

instead of removing the MRR caps, how about lowering your reaper difficulty

Reaper has nothing to do with this. LH Baba dots will wreck your day with 50 MRR.

and/or wearing a spell absorption item?

Limited solution, at best.

Too bad Spell Absorption and Greater Spell Absorption spell(s) are not implemented; but you can lobby for it? (used after counter spells)

Lobbying for a spell revamp or new spells is a lost cause. It's been requested numerous times over the years on this forum. Devs are not interested in it.

[Tyrande]

Lobbying for a spell revamp or new spells is a lost cause. It's been requested numerous times over the years on this forum. Devs are not interested in it.

I think you know why they are not interested in it. Actually if you look at the dollar sign. "$".

They do not currently has a way to charge points for new spells. There are new spells. In fact, look at warlock, some new spells there...

[Carpone]

I'd be in favor of raising the MRR cap to 100 for Cloth Armor and to 150 for Light Armor.

Arbitrary values are arbitrary.

[Arkat]

Too bad Spell Absorption and Greater Spell Absorption spell(s) are not implemented; but you can lobby for it? (used after counter spells)

Lobbying for a spell revamp or new spells is a lost cause. It's been requested numerous times over the years on this forum. Devs are not interested in it.

That and what's the difference between lobbying for an additional spell/s or removing/modifying the MRR cap?

A change is a change. Might as well lobby for the one that would probably be easier for the Devs to implement - changing the MRR cap.

[Arkat]

Arbitrary values are arbitrary.

There's a reason I advocated for raising the MRR cap by the number I did. While the original number may have been arbitrary, my suggested change wasn't.

[Splunge]

I completely disagree. I like that different classes/builds have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't want to see those differences disappear.

Situation:
The primary mitigation mechanic to reduce spell damage in DDO is Magical Resistance Rating.

The primary mitigation mechanic to reduce spell damage is not getting hit by the spells. This involves aggro management and positioning, and it predates MRR. Removing the MRR cap would make these skill less important, and I don't want to see DDO require less skill. If you can't avoid getting hit, high saves, evasion (only available to cloth/light armor wearers), and absorption/resistance items already help.

MRR cap is easily met by equipping just one legendary item. There's no point in considering an Insightful, Quality, Mythic or Artifact item bonus, or enhancements that increase MRR. This does not align with DDO's core principle of character customization.

No MRR benefit from Deep Gnome or Warlock past lives can be realized at level cap for cloth wearers, unless the Beacon of Magic set is worn.

There's also no point in my DC caster considering an insightful or quality deadly item, and he doesn't benefit at all from the fighter or monk (or many other) past life feats that he has. I don't see this as a problem. Everything doesn't have to benefit every class or build.

How much gear do you think is reasonable to dedicate towards absorb and/or resist? The dots commonly found in legendary Ravenloft are ice, fire, acid and electricity based.

My two raid-geared toons already have 9% elemental absorb from 9x Epic Arcane past lives, and use Epic Divine Past Life Block Energy x3.

However much you think is appropriate. When I run RSO, I put on some crafted equipment that gives me electric resistance and absorption. That means I have to give up whatever was in that slot. I like that there are tradeoffs that have to be made. I don't want everyone to be able to fully load up on every possible enchantment at once.