Help with Lvl 11 Half-Orc Paladin THF DPS

[Jhanandra]

I have a lvl 11 Half-Orc Paladin THF DPS that is about to become lvl 12, and I wanted some advice on the build before I level up. I'm going to have some free time to play over the holiday, so I hoped to get some thoughts moving forward. If something doesn't seem to make sense, it probably doesn't. This will be only my second toon to get to level 12, and would be the first to get to 13, so I'm pretty new at this.

Zharga (Orien)
Half-Orc, Lawful Good, Female
Paladin 11

STR 19 +3 Feat/Enhance +5 Items/Effects
DEX 10
CON 15 +7 Items/Effects
INT 10 +2 Items/Effects
WIS 8 +7 Item/Effects
CHA 15 +6 Items/Effects

Skills
Balance 4, Rank 7
Intimidate 20, Rank 13
Jump 6.5, Rank 0.5

Enhancements
Racial 11; Knight of the Chalice 28; Sacred Defender 5


Playstyle
She is meant to be a THF DPS able to take care of herself while soloing with a cleric hireling (I have never grouped). I would prefer pure paladin (I wanted the Champion of Good enhancement), but it appears that a few rogue levels is good for soloing. I would be interested to know what people think the trade-offs are there. One of my biggest issues so far has been traps that just wipe me out. I've played several missions where the Elite level was 2 or 3 below my level, but the traps would destroy me without a lot of spell/potion/guild protections, so trap-disabling skills would help. I could also get the lock-bash enhancement. Is all of the intimidate a waste if I'm not planning to tank? What tomes could be most beneficial?

I'd appreciate any insights you may have. Thanks!

[Hafeal]

Jhanandra -

First and foremost, I hope you are having fun. I would tell you most would not pick a Half-Orc for an "ideal" or min/max Paladin build, but, if you like that flavor it is very doable.

1. For a "trapper" (a/k/a evasion) build, try this: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/395133 by EllisDee37.

2. Paladins shine more once you have 32 build points. You need 4 stats - Str, Con, Wis and Cha. There is a good overall guide here on the DDO Wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Paladin. I do not think you need to max strength. I would spend some of those points in Wis and Cha.

3. There are hireling rogues in the store and they can be quite good at traps if managed properly, even on Elite. This is an option if you don't mind spending your DDO points there.

4. Don't be afraid to group! Not only is it fun to meet others, you can see how others play and operate.

5. Speaking of play - many traps have timing patterns, jump or tumble spots to avoid them if done right. Grouping can help you see those from time to time. Many players have learned to play without trapping or evasion skills - but it can be very tricky. For example, I no longer run Slavers on Elite or Reaper without a trapper. I have tried many times and there are just too many traps and randmoness to survive with assurance. Well, you could bring a Cleric hire with Rez and keep rezzing past traps if you can keep the hire alive. :-)


Good luck and have fun!

[unbongwah]

Stick with pure paladin: rogue splashes should come at the start of your life, not the middle. Also the good news is you're about to see some big jumps in your DPS: first at lvl 12 when you gain your tier-5 Enhancements (Avenging Cleave etc); and again at lvl 14/15 when you gain Holy Sword + Zeal.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6040677

[Jhanandra]

First and foremost, I hope you are having fun. I would tell you most would not pick a Half-Orc for an "ideal" or min/max Paladin build, but, if you like that flavor it is very doable.

I definitely am having fun. I went with the Half-Orc for my own role playing character development. She's a half-monster outcast turned Lawful Good Paladin seeking to purify the world of evil. It's somewhat based on the Pathfinder Redeemer archetype.

1. For a "trapper" (a/k/a evasion) build, try this: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/395133 by EllisDee37.

Thanks, I will check that out.

2. Paladins shine more once you have 32 build points. You need 4 stats - Str, Con, Wis and Cha. There is a good overall guide here on the DDO Wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Starting_a_Paladin. I do not think you need to max strength. I would spend some of those points in Wis and Cha.

She was a 32 point build. I got the stats in the OP from her character sheet, where it says she is a 32-point Champion Build. I'm not sure why the numbers don't add up. Wisdom could definitely help the spells. I currently wear a +5 WIS helmet. What do you see as the benefit of switching from STR to CHA?

3. There are hireling rogues in the store and they can be quite good at traps if managed properly, even on Elite. This is an option if you don't mind spending your DDO points there.

I will take a look. I had read that the Rogue hirelings were pretty bad.

4. Don't be afraid to group! Not only is it fun to meet others, you can see how others play and operate.

It's one of those things I've been meaning to do, but every time I actually play I don't.

5. Speaking of play - many traps have timing patterns, jump or tumble spots to avoid them if done right. Grouping can help you see those from time to time. Many players have learned to play without trapping or evasion skills - but it can be very tricky. For example, I no longer run Slavers on Elite or Reaper without a trapper. I have tried many times and there are just too many traps and randmoness to survive with assurance. Well, you could bring a Cleric hire with Rez and keep rezzing past traps if you can keep the hire alive. :-)

If they're timed, I try to be patient and avoid them. If they're pretty unavoidable, then I just run/jump through and hope for the best.

[Hipparan]

At this stage I wouldn't bother with any rogue levels. Boosting your Physical Resistance Rating will help with blade/spike traps, but resist/protection spells are probably going to help the most with elemental traps. What faith does your Paladin have? If you are looking for more survivability, then the Sovereign Host is the way to go with its level 6 feat, but Onatar gives a little more DPS. Olladra is also not bad for the healing, but it doesn't cure negative levels or death penalties like the Sovereign Host does. Unfortunately changing your character's faith is something that you can only really do by a lesser heart of wood. Your character's faith is also adds flavor, so keep that in mind.

As for Strength vs Charisma, Charisma becomes very important at level 12, especially for Paladins primarily taking Knight of the Chalice. Holy Retribution is a tier 5 enhancement that with high Charisma is extremely good at that level. It uses Turn Undead charges though, so keep that in mind.

My first melee character was a Paladin and although he was a gimp back then, he's a lot better now. Not the best, but better.

Edit: Also, you don't especially need to put points into Wisdom as long as you have an item/tomes that are enough to get you to the point of being able to cast level 4 spells.

[Jhanandra]

I do have the Lesser Heart of Wood that came with the character, so I can go back and change things.

[Ralmeth]

As you're already 11 levels into your character, and you want to stay pure, then I highly recommend you stay pure. Generally speaking, if you want to multiclass you really want to plan that out ahead of time. Here are some tips:

1) Put all level ups into strength. That's going to directly improve your DPS, which is the focus of your build.
2) You need to get your defenses up. I'd recommend taking all of those points from the half-orc tree, possibly even tier 3 and higher from the Knight tree and reassigning them into the Defender tree. I have a THF focused Paladin build, and the Defender tree is what I always fill in first, up until I get the 10% run speed boost (Swift Defense) in tier 4, as well as the 2nd greater stalwart defense enhancement (strength for one, and 20% bonus HP for the other). Then once your defenses are set, work on increasing your DPS enhancements. I think the extra hit points, PRR and MRR is going to make getting through traps a bit easier.
3) Even though you usually use a THF weapon, make sure to have a single handed weapon (ex. scimitar) and a shield. If you see a trap coming up that you need to run through, put the shield on and this will reduce the damage you take.

What feats have you taken?

[Ralmeth]

I do have the Lesser Heart of Wood that came with the character, so I can go back and change things.

Unless you picked bad feats, I would keep going. Your stat spread and skill points seem fine, and enhancements can be reset.

[Jhanandra]

Thanks for the advice.

Here are my feats:
Toughness
Two-Handed Fighting
Power Attack
Improved Two-Handed Fighting

Follower of Silver Flame
Silver Flame Exorcism

What do you think about skill points?

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks for the advice.

Here are my feats:
Toughness
Two-Handed Fighting
Power Attack
Improved Two-Handed Fighting

Follower of Silver Flame
Silver Flame Exorcism

What do you think about skill points?

First - umd is nice. but at this point maybe not worth trying to improve it. as a str based toon i would not have put pts into jump, but thats not a huge deal.

you want improved crit slashing (i think, you havent said what weaps you use) On anything but a pally i would take the cleave line, but kotc takes care of that. look into empower healing. in 2 levels you will get cure serious wounds, and it can be a life saver! I used quickened emp csw on my pally as a o "dear" moment button.

i know you were not asking about feats, but will mention something here.

you have 7 feats

power attack
thf
ithf
gthf
leaves you 3 more feats

imp crit
quicken
empower healing.
are what i recommend

you can also go more defense based and take shield mastery feats.

your stats look ok - i would have tweaked it a little bit

gone 8 dex, 14 con, and raised int a little bit, but it works for you

sry to ramble just some thoughts

[Ralmeth]

Thanks for the advice.

Here are my feats:
Toughness
Two-Handed Fighting
Power Attack
Improved Two-Handed Fighting

Follower of Silver Flame
Silver Flame Exorcism

What do you think about skill points?

Not bad. You don't really need toughness, so you could potentially swap this out (everyone gets one free feat swap per life...there's a NPC, Lockania, in the marketplace, towards the entrance to house D that you can talk to and do a short quest, that rewards a feat swap token). You might want to think about swapping this to Stunning Blow so that you'll have an option for taking out a dangerous mob quickly (i.e. champion). Though if you go this route, please be aware that you will want to find and slot both a stunning and insightful stunning item in order to get this to work reliably. It's a little work, but very worth it.

For level 12, I agree with Hobgoblin. You want to take improved critical. That's the best feat that you're missing. After that at level 15, go for greater two-handed fighting. As for empower healing and quicken, those are really good and you can take those at level 18 and 21.

As for skill points, intimidate isn't going to do you much good as you're soloing. It will help with some NPC dialogues, but that's about it. Generally speaking, intimidate is great if you want to be a tank in a party, as this helps you to take aggro, but otherwise I wouldn't bother with it. The points into balance are good as that helps for when you get knocked over, and some points into jump always helps, even if you're strength based. As you only get 2 skill points per level, it's not worth respeccing over. If you were to redo skills next life I would also recommend maxing out UMD instead of intimidate (but at this point I wouldn't change), as this is super helpful to use scrolls that you wouldn't normally be able to.

In general, I like skills, and tend to start intelligence at a 12 (on a human), so perhaps 14 for a half-orc. If you make it to 1750 favor this life, you could take your tome in intelligence, so that when you hit level 7 you'll start getting 1 more skill point per level. For a DPS focused Paladin (which is what my main character is), what I like to do with my skills is as follows:
- Max points into UMD (super helpful)
- Max points into heal (adds to your positive spell power, which means your cure moderate and serious wounds spells will be better)
- Max points into concentration (not everyone likes concentration as you can learn to live without it, but I do. You're going to casting spells in combat, and this will give you a better chance to not get knocked out of your spell. Also helpful in epics in a number of quests and explorer zones with NPC interactions).
- Half points into jump (always helpful to be able to jump higher, but please be aware that this caps out at 40)
- Half points into balance (helps you to get back up after getting knocked down).

[Selvera]

Paladins vs traps are mostly a case of knowing how to avoid traps and being able to tank the damage. A well built and geared paladin can easily survive a couple hits from traps on elite difficulty; but it takes a lot of work to be well geared.

Avoiding traps:
- Know where the traps are (this comes from experiance) and if they have patters which allow you to avoid them (Some traps move so you can get past, some traps fire for a while then reset for a couple seconds before firing again, so you can time running through them)
- Have a lot of jump. You get this from skill points, strength, and most importantly scrolls of jump. Many traps can be jumped over without needing a save.
- Featherfall is occasionally useful, especially combined with good jump, to get past traps.

Tanking traps:
- Get your saves high enough that you pass all your saves. This typically means traps deal half damage to you. You need 3 types of items to get your saves up as a paladin: Charisma, Resistance and Parrying. I suggest you get all 3, but if your cha/resistance items are good enough you might not need parrying.
- Get your PRR and MRR up so that you take less damage from traps. You want sheltering gear for this, the best you can find. Insightful sheltering and mythic boosts are also good for this. Also, if you know you have to run through a trap and have no alternative; you might as well pop on a heavy shield while you run through. Even if it's a level 1 non-magical heavy shield, it will still give you 10 PRR and a big boost against effects which normally allow a reflex save.
- Get your HP up. Again, we're mostly looking at doing this through better gear. You want the best constitution and insightful constitution pieces of gear you can find, vitality and false life items are also a good idea, and once you're able to get it, greensteel is great at around your level (but I'm guessing you probably don't have that, since it typically takes characters level 17+ to farm it).
- In fairly rare cases, AC and dodge also work against traps, but these traps are usually not the more dangerous kind.

The real trick is; with all these defensive stats that you want so you can survive the traps (and enemies); you don't want to skimp on all those offensive stats that you need to deal good damage as well. Which is where gearing for a melee starts to get complicated.

[Hafeal]

Quite a bit of useful info, from everyone.

Couple of odds and ends for you:

1) I personally like a more "balanced" appraoch to Pally builds and I would drop strength a point to get Wisdom to at least 10 or 11 (take the odd number depending on your tome +). Wisdom will help with saves - a must for reaper and epic, even for a pally. And it will help your spell casting - depending on what you are casting, of course.

2) Skills? I love skills, very under-rated. I would dump Intimidiate as previsouly suggested. I would put at least 1 point into all physical skills - jump, balance, swim, tumble. Remember, you get +1 to all skills in epic for each level you go up - but - you need to have at least 1 point in them when you hit epic. So you can have an 11+ tumble at 30, for example, with a simple +1. Those skills can come in handy.

[unbongwah]

Lock Bash is based on Intimidate, which is why I take it on my HOrcadin. You can skip it if you don't want it, but...but shinies!

[Enguebert]

One skill that can be useful : Heal

It will boost your healing spells.

And yes, Improve critical feat is a must for all melees

[Jhanandra]

Thanks for all of the great advice everyone!

I typically use a greataxe.

[Ralmeth]

Lock Bash is based on Intimidate, which is why I take it on my HOrcadin. You can skip it if you don't want it, but...but shinies!

Wow! I’ve never played a half orc and didn’t know this ability existed. In that case, I agree with you that this makes taking intimidate worth it.

[QuantumFX]

Feats commentary:
1) Power Attack
3) Stunning Blow
6) THF
9) Improved Critical: Slashing
12) Improved THF
15) Greater THF
18) Quicken Spell.

For diety choices, I prefer Olladra (and extra “OH S***!” heal) or Onatar (More DPS.). Silver Flame Exorcism is kinda redundant on a KotC build.

Skills:
UMD (You’re a CHA dependent class. Time to make that work for you.)
Heal
Intimidate (The fact that you’re not a “tank” build doesn't matter. In reaper, Intimidate is more about peeling and kiting than actual tanking. Also, you’re a half-orc that can intimidate locks.)


Enhancement stuff:
The first thing you want to set up is Sacred Defense + Durable Defense. Then, go back to the KotC tree for a while. Once you have your Tier 5 enhancements, go back to investing in Sacred Defender.
The important benefits of Holy Retribution will not be found in the first 3 sentences of the enhancement. The attack animation and the smite regen are the most important features.


Epic Destiny Stuff:
The combination of Holy Retribution (KotC), Endless Smiting (Unyielding Sentinel), and Endless Turning (Divine Crusader) is a fantastic path to sustainable DPS. In epics, your attacks will constantly alternate between “cleaves” (Exalted Cleave/Avenging Cleave/Holy Retribution) and “Smites” (Exalted Smite/Divine Sacrifice). You’ll know when you’re doing it right when you reach a shrine with 0 smites, 0 turn attempts and don’t feel like you needed more of them to make it there.