Retaining Casual Players

[PrinceMyshkin]

Some time ago there was a thread with suggestions for retaining players. Rather than finding that thread and necroing it, I'm starting a new thread with my thoughts on the subject. I have often wondered why MMORPGs are not more casual player friendly. I would think that companies would want more casual players since they take up less system resources. One problem is that, in general, casual players don't have a "voice"--because of limited playing time, they'd rather be playing than spending time on the boards. As a game matures, the high powered veterans with uber equipment begin complaining that the game is too easy and so new content is usually much harder, usually far too hard for first-lifers. ToEE and Slavers are good examples of that. I recognize that they have to retain existing players also, but, generally, hard core players are going to stick around if they've liked the game enough to get to that point. Thus, it seems to me that a significant amount of effort should go into improving low/mid level play. I don't even pay attention to updates for there's never anything in them for me. They are mostly just an annoyance. Think about that. So, what's to be done?

It seems to me that there are probably two kinds of casual players, 1) those who can infrequently set aside blocks of time, like a few hours on Saturday every other week or so (call this C1); and 2) those who can play a few minutes at a time, but more frequently (C2). I'm in the latter camp so my thoughts are mainly in that direction, but I have no idea which is more common. I also think the latter would tend to solo more since they have less time to wait for a group. Additionally, those of the C1 type may want to try to keep up with their friends who play more frequently.

My thinking is that at least in one respect, both would benefit by experiencing as much of the game's content as soon as possible. However, if the changes also can be taken advantage of by more frequent players, then nothing is gained. So, I'm throwing this out as an idea. As a programmer, I don't think it would be too hard to implement, but, also as a programmer, I know all too well how often those words have come back to bite me. Still, I think this could benefit SSG and may be worth the investment. The more players, the more likely some will become VIP and/or buy stuff.

1. Create a new type of character called Casual (I know this term is used for something else, but I can't think of a better one.) Since it would be hard to define exactly what makes a Casual character, it would be the player's choice. To avoid abuse, only one character on an account could be a Casual character.

2. Benefits of being Casual:
a. Permanent buff to xps, I'm thinking somewhere from 25% to 50%. All other bonuses (VIP, elixirs, etc.) would stack with this.
b. Permanent loot buff, the one that gives higher quality, not a higher level. Equipment needs to keep up with leveling. It is difficult for a casual player to get decent equipment. Edit: Bad idea. It would be better to make the low level BTC/BTA stuff better.
c. This may be going overboard, but a permanent Heroic boost (say, +2 at lower levels, +4 at higher). This might make the character more acceptable in a group--the buff to make up for lack of skill/experience.
d. A once a week ability to mark a flagging quest as completed. This would work exactly like the ability to flag a saga quest as completed. Tomb of the Burning Heart and Hidden in Plain Sight come to mind. The first is practically impossible for a new player to solo and the boss fight of the latter is frustratingly difficult compared to the rest of the very long quest. From SSG's perspective, this would also encourage VIP subscriptions and/or shard sales.

3. Disadvantages--there needs to be a disincentive as a trade-off. This can't be in xp's or loot for that would defeat the purpose. The best I can come up with is that the character could not level more than once a week (or some other time frame). Excess xp's would be lost. Leveling would not be automatic; this is a limit, not a guarantee. A true casual player wouldn't level more than this anyway, at least those of the C2 type, but it would discourage hard-core players (I think). This may hurt the C1 group but, as I said, I haven't been able to come up with any other deterrent.

4. Also, to prevent abuse, the only way to remove the Casual flag is to reincarnate in some way. Selling hearts is also good for SSG.

I have more ideas, but this post is long enough and I want to throw this out to see if it might be feasible.

[Satyriasys]

the high powered veterans with uber equipment begin complaining that the game is too easy and so new content is usually much harder, usually far too hard for first-lifers. ToEE and Slavers are good examples of that.

The thing is we already have a solution to this and it's called difficulty levels. If casuals insist on playing elite and then complain it's too hard what is to be done? Making elite easier is not the answer since it will alienate vets. If a casual has too much pride to focus on a difficulty that they can handle then it is probably normal for them to feel discouraged.

Your solution seems way overly designed for a problem that doesn't exists. Plenty of casuals are playing this game on a daily basis and enjoying it immensely.

[SerPounce]

I think this game is really pretty casual friendly in it's mechanics. A casual player can level up and play 95% of the game's content without any problem. Giving numerical bonuses to "causal" players just reinforces the false notion that you need past lives and such to play the game to it's fullest. You just don't. A first life toon with cannith crafted and random gear can do just fine.

The problem for casual players it it can be hard for them to find groups of like minded players to play the content they want to play due to low server populations, a big level spread, and tons of content. Not much is going to help that though other than server mergers, which appears to not be on the table for technical reasons.

[zehnvhex]

Retention has little to do with difficulty levels and far more to do with the dinosaur that is this games interface. DDO is a chore to play with absolutely no guidance, no direction, no anything. If you can get past that it's a very rewarding experience at times, sure. But some days I spend more time fighting the UI then I do monsters.

[SpartanKiller13]

A first life toon with cannith crafted...

I don't disagree disagree with the rest of your post, but what kind of casual player on a first life toon has Cannith Crafting? How many even know how it works? Or where to get collectibles? Or where to deconstruct?

While even 50 levels of it allows you to make some nice gear, did you have 50 levels on your first life fresh toon? I guarantee I have never, across the 70+ toons I've played.
I have maybe two toons with levels in CCrafting, and one I haven't played in years. The other is my main, who has >300, but that took a few lives worth of saved Essence which isn't exactly available to a fresh casual first life.

Obviously if it's an alt on an account where you have shared bank and a crafter you'd have no issue, but those players aren't the casual ones this post is about.

[SerPounce]

I don't disagree disagree with the rest of your post, but what kind of casual player on a first life toon has Cannith Crafting? How many even know how it works? Or where to get collectibles? Or where to deconstruct?

While even 50 levels of it allows you to make some nice gear, did you have 50 levels on your first life fresh toon? I guarantee I have never, across the 70+ toons I've played.
I have maybe two toons with levels in CCrafting, and one I haven't played in years. The other is my main, who has >300, but that took a few lives worth of saved Essence which isn't exactly available to a fresh casual first life.

Obviously if it's an alt on an account where you have shared bank and a crafter you'd have no issue, but those players aren't the casual ones this post is about.

The account I'm playing on is only 9 months old, and I've had lvl 320 cannith crafting for months. I play maybe 10-15 hours a week (only two toons though: one second life, one with 3 heroic and 3 epic PLs). So maybe not on the first life of your first toon, but by your second life or second toon I think you can get crafted stuff. Until then random gear can work fine for many new player friendly builds (e.g. warlock).

You realize you only need one toon with crafting right? Everything is BtA. Throw random loot in the shared bank, then when it fills go to the crafter and deconstruct. Once you have 10-50K essences buy a 100% bonus xp pot and some success boosters and level it up using the highest ML shard you can make. Takes about 15 minutes.

As far as where to get collectibles this guide is great: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...em-Efficiently . It's kind of obnoxious to farm the stuff, but it's not that bad time wise (especially if you're careful to hit all the nodes during regular questing).

I probably am more likely to "do my homework" on stuff like this than some casual players though, and I had a lot of game knowledge coming in from playing the game on a different account from 2010-13.

[Astoroth]

Retention has little to do with difficulty levels and far more to do with the dinosaur that is this games interface. DDO is a chore to play with absolutely no guidance, no direction, no anything. If you can get past that it's a very rewarding experience at times, sure. But some days I spend more time fighting the UI then I do monsters.

I have to agree especially with the default builds being so comically bad. What true casual or new player is going to stick around when they get to the harbor group with some vets and see their character is complete rubbish, that they have to buy warlock to be any good as a first lifer or grind it out to 20 and tr? Or perhaps they try to group and all the lfms are blank and the dead groups they click on never accept them? How is this acceptable for a game that is based on the idea of being multiplayer?

Assuming you get the rare player that sticks it out through that. As the OP indicates the true casual player isn't likely to partake of the forums. So they won't get character build advice or know about things like PRR, because in game documentation ( or even official website) and explanations are next to nil.

If you're going to balance things for characters with past lives, it's always going to be a problem for your most valuable customers; the ones that still need to buy everything. No one is going to stick around if they perceive themselves as gimp and see that it will take years of grinding to be competitive.

Unlike the OP I don't see experience for a first lifer as the issue though, just that the game is presently driving everyone into reaper bravery bonus, by providing 45% more experience there. Even the old bravery bonus wasn't very casual friendly. A retooling of bravery bonus is in order so the divide in exp given is not so extreme that it forces players into only the highest difficulties.

[KoobTheProud]

The thing is we already have a solution to this and it's called difficulty levels. If casuals insist on playing elite and then complain it's too hard what is to be done? Making elite easier is not the answer since it will alienate vets. If a casual has too much pride to focus on a difficulty that they can handle then it is probably normal for them to feel discouraged.

Your solution seems way overly designed for a problem that doesn't exists. Plenty of casuals are playing this game on a daily basis and enjoying it immensely.

All the XP bonuses are tied to streaks on harder difficulty levels except for VIP, Guild and bonus weekends. That's a huge handicap for truly casual players.

[KoobTheProud]

Retention has little to do with difficulty levels and far more to do with the dinosaur that is this games interface. DDO is a chore to play with absolutely no guidance, no direction, no anything. If you can get past that it's a very rewarding experience at times, sure. But some days I spend more time fighting the UI then I do monsters.

This is also true. The UI could use an overhaul with a simple set created for casual players to use as a default. However for casters no simple set is possible due to the number of spells potentially available.

Just narrowing down the number of options in the keymapping interface would be valuable. A dozen plus options on that all seem to do similar things but no clear idea why they are all available to choose. Maybe cut that in half with better explanations and add in a section for game controllers below the keymapping?

[Satyriasys]

All the XP bonuses are tied to streaks on harder difficulty levels except for VIP, Guild and bonus weekends. That's a huge handicap for truly casual players.

BB are for powergamers farming out their 1000th life. I guess it's sort of difficult for you to see what a casual's goals are from way up there.

[KoobTheProud]

BB are for powergamers farming out their 1000th life. I guess it's sort of difficult for you to see what a casual's goals are from way up there.

I have been playing off and on since 2006. I have one character on her 6th life. I am the definition of casual in as much as I play some weeks not at all and some months not at all and never for more than a few hours at a time.

My point on bravery bonus is that for people who start the game and just play casual and normal diff levels they will get to level 9 and be gone and it will take a year of really casual play to get there. Raising XP at Normal level would be the best thing that SSG could do right now. It wouldn't benefit long-term casuals at all because we all play Elite mostly, but it would hook the newbies who do not.

[Satyriasys]

I have been playing off and on since 2006. I have one character on her 6th life. I am the definition of casual in as much as I play some weeks not at all and some months not at all and never for more than a few hours at a time.

My point on bravery bonus is that for people who start the game and just play casual and normal diff levels they will get to level 9 and be gone and it will take a year of really casual play to get there. Raising XP at Normal level would be the best thing that SSG could do right now. It wouldn't benefit long-term casuals at all because we all play Elite mostly, but it would hook the newbies who do not.

We played for several years with no BB or need for it. It was included to speed the TR wheel. I would not say a casual is at a "huge handicap" without them. The game plays just fine and there is plenty of xp to be had. There is nothing stopping them from purchasing xp pots or tomes off the store if they hit a plateau. If they are not making purchases than the point is moot since they will have too little content anyway.

[KoobTheProud]

There's a point in the game around level 9 where it gets really slow for a new player. Anything around there until 12 (Menachturun) where it speeds up again would be helpful.

[SpartanKiller13]

The account I'm playing on is only 9 months old, and I've had lvl 320 cannith crafting for months. I play maybe 10-15 hours a week (only two toons though: one second life, one with 3 heroic and 3 epic PLs). So maybe not on the first life of your first toon, but by your second life or second toon I think you can get crafted stuff. Until then random gear can work fine for many new player friendly builds (e.g. warlock).

You realize you only need one toon with crafting right? Everything is BtA. Throw random loot in the shared bank, then when it fills go to the crafter and deconstruct. Once you have 10-50K essences buy a 100% bonus xp pot and some success boosters and level it up using the highest ML shard you can make. Takes about 15 minutes.

As far as where to get collectibles this guide is great: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...em-Efficiently . It's kind of obnoxious to farm the stuff, but it's not that bad time wise (especially if you're careful to hit all the nodes during regular questing).

I probably am more likely to "do my homework" on stuff like this than some casual players though, and I had a lot of game knowledge coming in from playing the game on a different account from 2010-13.

Only 6 PL's lol. Even with a few hundred TP investment (basically required unless you want to grind a ton more) it's still at least 50k essences, which is probably more than you make in your first 1-30 run, if you are deconstructing nearly everything (first few lives plat is still quite valuable).

Certainly it's a lot cheaper to get to level 50, and even 300 isn't with a bit of research and investment. I'm just saying that neither of those are new player friendly.
I farm from the forum guides, use EllisDee37's tool, etc. However, those aren't obvious for a new person looking to craft some specialty gear, who is likely to be turned off by the "high collectible costs" especially if they haven't been storing collectibles for the last 7 years.

[SerPounce]

Seems like folks are conflating "new players" and "casual" players. I've always thought those are two pretty separate groups. A "casual" could be someone who's played for years, but doesn't put in a lot of hours a week and doesn't have ambitious in game goals. A new player is someone who hasn't been playing very long, but might be playing a lot or have a lot of powergamer goals and skills and from other games.

I think DDO is in a good place for casual players. Less of a good place for new players.

[Satyriasys]

I think DDO is in a good place for casual players. Less of a good place for new players.

Exactly. I just watched a stream today from some guy called Cordovan. The poor bloke had no idea what he was doing but was having a great time.

[Annex]

In my opinion, the original post left one premise unstated--almost all players wish to create a 'viable' character within their time constraints. By 'viable', I mean a character capable of meaningfully contributing to group activities AND performing well at harder difficulties. The original poster seeks a way to speed along one character, per account, to that magical point where he or she becomes 'viable'.

Again in my opinion, the developers at Standing Stone attempted to resolve this very issue by introducing Warlocks. That class basically covers all the bases for someone seeking to quickly create a 'viable' character--tons of damage, tons of area damage, great defenses, a gigantic hit point shield, very easy attack rotation, basically no cost for using offensive abilities, ranged damage, and spell access for utility. The numerous threads asking the developers to reduce Warlock power illustrate just how effectively they met the unstated design goal.

I am on a semi-break while I wait for Ravenloft and find it interesting how different games approach this problem. About two weeks ago I decided to retry Star Wars, the Old Republic. That game ran a +250% experience boost for the month leading up to their next expansion. I took a L12 character to L70 (the cap) in 4 days without trying! Within 8 days my character was 'viable' with decent equipment. Due to the structure of the game I can join all sorts of groups and effectively contribute. Due to level scaling, I can go back and play all the stuff I skipped and still get good rewards at decent difficulty while doing it.

The developers of The Secret World went a completely different route. They completely rebuilt the game for Free To Play and will soon relaunch it side-by-side with the old version! In a very bold move they intend to force every single player to start over in the new version, minus some account based cosmetic stuff that will transfer. How is that for a catch-up mechanism!!!

The "reincarnation" system in DDO, basically a gigantic, extremely time intensive lateral advancement system, makes it really hard to build in any kind of "catch-up" mechanism. Adding a new equipment tier offers no help. Adding a new class offers some help but veterans will just use it to further rush ahead in lateral advancement systems, just as they did with Warlocks. Adding more past lives makes the problem worse. Adding another lateral advancement system like Reaper Trees makes the problem worse. The developers cannot throw out existing lateral advancement systems because that punishes the most loyal, most dedicated, and presumably most financially important players.

In Star Wars they also gave subscribers free tokens to make L65 characters, thus catapulting new and casual players towards a 'viable' character. The developers at DDO cannot do that because they make money selling Experience Potions and Pills.

As people have stated in other threads, a dozen Past Life Feats will make just about any character of any race and any class with a competent build 'viable'. Arguably, some really good builds with proper equipment can reach 'viable' status with zero to three Past Life Feats. If so, why fret?

DDO really throws an immense gauntlet at new and casual players wanting to get anywhere--Byzantine rules, poor in-game help, poor in-game direction, group mechanics that spread everyone out, lateral advancement systems that make it almost impossible to 'catch-up' to veterans, complicated character construction mechanics that make hitting upon a low hour 'viable' build extremely unlikely, and so forth.

In the end, I would try a few different things to help new and casual players:
1) Offer strong in-game direction for new players in the form of a story driven Saga taking them from 1 all the way to 20 at an easy difficulty. Have it award useful equipment. Other games do this for good reason.
2) Offer low hour 'viable' builds specifically for new and casual players. Take the guess work and pitfalls out of character creation and leveling.
3) Normalize experience in such a way that new and casual players gain an experience catapult but the catapult offers absolutely zero help to veterans. Basically, normalize experience such that Normal and Hard difficulty pay out experience almost as well as an Elite or Reaper streak. Leave Bravery Bonus alone but push up Normal and Hard experience so high that Bravery Bonus becomes moot.
4) Stop adding power based lateral advancement systems. They absolutely ruin game balance in every single game that offers them.

I don't know. Reading my own list I am not sure that would do it. DDO spreads people out so badly, over so many levels, over so many difficulties, over such a wide range of character power. It's a tough nut to crack.

[Drekisen]

Experience is kind of lame in heroics, but once you hit epic...even casual is great xp/minute for most quests.

But I mean yeah if it was someones choice it would probably be ok, I don't think it is necessary at all and the dev's could spend time on much more important things though.

[Chai]

True casual players do not have a need for "higher tier" loot or buffed XP rates. They just want to play the game. Most of the time casuals get thrown under the bus in order to keep other agendas out of the discussion.

[zehnvhex]

True casual players do not have a need for "higher tier" loot or buffed XP rates. They just want to play the game. Most of the time casuals get thrown under the bus in order to keep other agendas out of the discussion.

Isn't that the most fun part of these discussions? It's like saying, "My...uh...friend has erectile dysfunctions. Where could I...I mean my friend...get some of those boner pills?"

Boosting first life XP or giving them a flat universal +50% damage boost so that they can feel like they 'compete' with multi-TR veterans isn't going to suddenly make them play more. Thinking that way in any shape/form is just...ugh. It's so off point it's not even funny.

Here's some things they could do to -actually- boost player retention.

1 - All non-epic quests up to hard difficulty are now free. Yup. The 'paid for' content like GH, Vale, etc...are only for pay if you do it on elite or higher. People are gun shy about new content because they never know if they'll like it or not. Guest passes are prohibitively expensive for what you get and 99% of players don't even really know they exist/how they're used.

However, if they could do the content on hard and then they can be like, "I enjoyed it! I'm going to buy it!" Seriously, the first time you run into one of those 'red' quest givers you get a sour taste in your mouth.

2 - Overhaul the 'path' system in DDO so that players can make/upload/download builds and plug them into DDO. You know how many people I've recommended one of Strimtoms good builds to? How much more awesome would it be if a new players could click a button in the character creation screen to load up a list of recommended builds, voted on by players, rated by recent popularity etc...

Let's be honest. SSG is pretty bad at this game. Just watch some of their streams. Steel or Sev or whoever recently tried out a zombie Shiradi and they were hilariously bad at it. You don't want these guys suggesting builds. Let the pro's do it.

3 - Complete UI overhaul. This is so ridiculously necessary. The UI of many modern games are minimalist and pretty or heavy but functional. DDO's UI is neither pretty, minimalist or functional. It is however, extremely heavy. The fact that you pick enhancements and THEN have to go to your character window to put the abilities on your hot bar is just...I dunno. Dumb? Yeah, dumb. There's tons of 'wasted' zero space in the UI. The mouseovers for items, spells and more are all horrendously inconsistent. The quest LFM system is hilariously brokenly bad.

4 - The game also doesn't explain -anything-. You know how many new people are straight up confused why a +2 str item and a +4 str item only gives them +4 strength total? Reincarnating is like...the cornerstone of DDO and you know where it's mentioned in the game? The reincarnation grove. Know where else? Nowhere. There isn't a single mention of it anywhere else in the game -period.-

5 - Finally...fix hireling AI. I know this is unpopular around here because we're all super swag gods but all players should have permanent hirelings that levels up with them. One cleric, one fighter, one rogue and one wizard. Only one can be out at a time and provide different services. Fix the AI so they are somewhat dependable if arguably weaker then a PC counterpart.

Start with fixing that stuff. Don't worry about little Timmy with his +1 longsword sucks even in normal difficulty vs. my character Johnny Thunderwang is immune to death in R4 up to level 12 thanks to sploit gear and past lives. That's not what causes him to quit. Timmy wants to be like me, that's what keeps him going and giving him a huge boost in early game xp isn't going to suddenly make him not want to rage quit the first time his cleric hireling sits there with it's thumb up his butt while he dies helplessly thanks to the hireling AI being terrible.

Little Timmy is far more likely to quit because he has 30 collectibles sitting in his inventory and he has no idea what to do with them and it's getting annoying. Or because he picked the 'athletics' feat thinking it would make him run faster in game but now he has to restart because he figured out that at no point in DDO's history has that been a good feat to pick. Or because he finished all the harbor quests and now he has no idea where he's supposed to go.

Little Timmy does not quit because I walk by and have all 36 epic past lives already while he has none.