Has DA been stealth nerfed?

[FranOhmsford]

Ran EN DA today on Argo to get tokens for a dualbox alt.

1st run - 3 players + the Dualbox - ZERO Tokens for my main toon, 1 for the Dualbox, according to the other two players no tokens in the right chest for them either {they both passed a token in the main chest.}.
So my Dualbox ended up with 3 tokens out of a possible 8 and supposedly all tokens that appeared were passed.

2nd run - 5 players + the Dualbox - 4 Tokens total and supposedly all that appeared were passed! NOT ONE SINGLE TOKEN APPEARED IN THE RIGHT HAND CHEST, All were in the main Epic Chest.
So 4 out of a possible 12 from that one and 7 out of a possible 20 in total from the two runs?

Have the Devs nerfed EN DA and removed the token drop from the right hand chest while also reducing the drop rate in the Epic Chest?

If so NOT COOL DEVS!!!

[AbyssalMage]

Most likely. I know it was stated it wasn't WAI back during U15 or abouts. The fact that tokens are now used in crafting would help encourage them (SSG) to fix/nerf this finally.

[Annex]

I play Devil Assault almost every day. If I recall correctly, my avatar and her sister both looted 2 Tokens this morning (and the day before as well)

I have noticed that if one sister loots an item that replaces the Token, such as a Shard of (Whatever) Power or an Energy Cell, the other tends to loot such things as well. I have always thought it rather strange how often both loot the same sorts of items.

[Jasparion]

Ran EN DA today on Argo to get tokens for a dualbox alt.

1st run - 3 players + the Dualbox - ZERO Tokens for my main toon, 1 for the Dualbox, according to the other two players no tokens in the right chest for them either {they both passed a token in the main chest.}.
So my Dualbox ended up with 3 tokens out of a possible 8 and supposedly all tokens that appeared were passed.

2nd run - 5 players + the Dualbox - 4 Tokens total and supposedly all that appeared were passed! NOT ONE SINGLE TOKEN APPEARED IN THE RIGHT HAND CHEST, All were in the main Epic Chest.
So 4 out of a possible 12 from that one and 7 out of a possible 20 in total from the two runs?

Have the Devs nerfed EN DA and removed the token drop from the right hand chest while also reducing the drop rate in the Epic Chest?

If so NOT COOL DEVS!!!

EN has always given better items than EH. Clearly this was a bug. No idea if they have changed it, but simply no reason to complain about it have they done it.

[Saekee]

I really hope that this is not the case.

I can run challenges easily for mats/token turn-ins but DA was always a nice source of GS mats/tokens and even some xp, all in one quest.

[Simard]

But two runs the other day with a full party gave 24 tokens or 2 each per character per run.

[Cocomajobo]

Read by QA!

(As a note: To my knowledge (while at home without access to changlist information) no purposeful alterations were made to the drop rates, however, with U34 every loot table in the game was touched, added to, and altered by hand so it is entirely plausible that any specific chest in any specific dungeon on any specific difficulty is behaving differently than it was before the update.)

[Mofus]

Read by QA!(As a note: To my knowledge (while at home without access to changlist information) no purposeful alterations were made to the drop rates, however, with U34 every loot table in the game was touched, added to, and altered by hand so it is entirely plausible that any specific chest in any specific dungeon on any specific difficulty is behaving differently than it was before the update.)

Thank you for responding to this thread and the other one about no drops in von 6, I just don't know why it has taken this long to get a response. This issue has been posted here more than once for the past 2 weeks.

[Annex]

I just ran Epic Normal Devil Assault. My avatar pulled one Token of the Twelve and one Shavarath Low Energy Cell. Her sister pulled two Tokens of the Twelve. I will track it for a week or two and report back.

[Cocomajobo]

Thank you for responding to this thread and the other one about no drops in von 6, I just don't know why it has taken this long to get a response. This issue has been posted here more than once for the past 2 weeks.

Honestly? Because I'm generally the member of QA who lets players know when we're looking into something mentioned on the forums and I've, personally, been too busy to do that the past month or so while prepping multiple patches and simultaneously testing what is turning out to be an excitingly beefy featureset for U35 on a quick turnaround due to the way design staggered development between updates and the late date U34 ended up coming out on.

Anyways, will look into it when I get a chance this week. =]

[sk3l3t0r]

Honestly? Because I'm generally the member of QA who lets players know when we're looking into something mentioned on the forums and I've, personally, been too busy to do that the past month or so while prepping multiple patches and simultaneously testing what is turning out to be an excitingly beefy featureset for U35 on a quick turnaround due to the way design staggered development between updates and the late date U34 ended up coming out on.

Anyways, will look into it when I get a chance this week. =]

Probably the most info about the inner workings of SSG I have seen on here in a long time!! Appreciate the transparency and information.

[noinfo]

Read by QA!

(As a note: To my knowledge (while at home without access to changlist information) no purposeful alterations were made to the drop rates, however, with U34 every loot table in the game was touched, added to, and altered by hand so it is entirely plausible that any specific chest in any specific dungeon on any specific difficulty is behaving differently than it was before the update.)

This happened a number of updates ago and was brought up on the forums. The second chest has been only some times spawned with the ability to have tokens. This may have happened during random loot pass but can't remember. This is not recent

[FuzzyDuck81]

Honestly? Because I'm generally the member of QA who lets players know when we're looking into something mentioned on the forums and I've, personally, been too busy to do that the past month or so while prepping multiple patches and simultaneously testing what is turning out to be an excitingly beefy featureset for U35 on a quick turnaround due to the way design staggered development between updates and the late date U34 ended up coming out on.

Anyways, will look into it when I get a chance this week. =]

[Roland_D'Arabel]

Read by QA!

(As a note: To my knowledge (while at home without access to changlist information) no purposeful alterations were made to the drop rates, however, with U34 every loot table in the game was touched, added to, and altered by hand so it is entirely plausible that any specific chest in any specific dungeon on any specific difficulty is behaving differently than it was before the update.)

Hi Coco,

Since you have eyes on this thread I will throw this here instead of starting a new thread. Since U34 there have been quite a few weird random gen loot items. A few examples include:

min level 28 plate mail and docent from EE What Goes Up masterwork, bind on equip, no other affixes
min level 14 long sword and rapier from Wheloon epic chain end reward with insightful deadly +2 (no one I play with has ever seen this before)
min level 14 tower shield from Wheloon epic chain end reward masterwork, no other affixes
compasses in Stormhorn chain end reward loot list
chain reward lists from Stormhorns and Wheloon on epic only offering 3 items in list

Not sure if these are bugs so I am bringing it to your attention.

[changelingamuck]

Thank you for responding to this thread and the other one about no drops in von 6, I just don't know why it has taken this long to get a response. This issue has been posted here more than once for the past 2 weeks.

Okay, really, it should be noted that the DDO forums are not the developers' *inbox*. It's a forum for DDO players communicating among themselves that developers sometimes read and sometimes chime in on. Actually, it's pretty grating how many threads there on here that start with "Dear Devs", "Attention Devs!". There are specific subforums for "Official Discussions", "DDO Store Feedback", "Website Feedback", etc. There's an in-game bug reporting tool. There's the option to send private messages to developers. It's no wonder that people, for years, are constantly saying how 'ignored' they feel on the forums. If I'm at a restaurant and have feedback on the service, I don't walk over to the table of another group of customers and start saying, "Dear Waiters..." and then get resentful when I discover that the waiters weren't just coincidentally walking by and listening in when I delivered my misdirected plea for attention.

Probably the most info about the inner workings of SSG I have seen on here in a long time!! Appreciate the transparency and information.

Yeah, except it actually took time to post that reply which was the equivalent of "I was busy working."--which is always the answer to thousands of why, why, why's that have been posted on these forums over the years (Okay, it's not actually always the answer, the other answer is "Because it won't help the company's bottomline enough to justify the resources spent on it" but they usually don't say that because many find it hearbreaking to discover that SSG is a business and not a self-funding artistic entity with which they have a personal friendship)... If I order food, I don't need to hear the inner workings of the restaurant from the cooks chatting it up with me instead of, you know, cooking. We already know that they're working, they're at work.

[FranOhmsford]

Okay, really, it should be noted that the DDO forums are not the developers' *inbox*. It's a forum for DDO players communicating among themselves that developers sometimes read and sometimes chime in on. Actually, it's pretty grating how many threads there on here that start with "Dear Devs", "Attention Devs!". There are specific subforums for "Official Discussions", "DDO Store Feedback", "Website Feedback", etc. There's an in-game bug reporting tool. There's the option to send private messages to developers. It's no wonder that people, for years, are constantly saying how 'ignored' they feel on the forums. If I'm at a restaurant and have feedback on the service, I don't walk over to the table of another group of customers and start saying, "Dear Waiters..." and then get resentful when I discover that the waiters weren't just coincidentally walking by and listening in when I delivered my misdirected plea for attention.



Yeah, except it actually took time to post that reply which was the equivalent of "I was busy working."--which is always the answer to thousands of why, why, why's that have been posted on these forums over the years (Okay, it's not actually always the answer, the other answer is "Because it won't help the company's bottomline enough to justify the resources spent on it" but they usually don't say that because many find it hearbreaking to discover that SSG is a business and not a self-funding artistic entity with which they have a personal friendship)... If I order food, I don't need to hear the inner workings of the restaurant from the cooks chatting it up with me instead of, you know, cooking. We already know that they're working, they're at work.

Your example doesn't really work because the DDOForums are not the equivalent of walking over to another table in a restaurant and complaining - That would be joining a party IN-GAME and asking for said party to report your complaint as trolling.

The fact is the Devs DO read the forums and yes I feel they SHOULD be reading them {not all the time but at least a quick once over at the end of each day.}. They are building a "game" that is close to a lifestyle for some players, heavily addictive and with a highly dedicated following - They should be nurturing that following and if they can reassure people in threads like this one then that is a good thing!

I do feel these forums need quite a bit more moderation than Turbine managed to offer and it would be nice if SSG could employ a dedicated TEAM of moderators {and In-Game GMs too} that worked nights and weekends!

[Nyata]

Hi Coco,


min level 14 long sword and rapier from Wheloon epic chain end reward with insightful deadly +2 (no one I play with has ever seen this before)
min level 14 tower shield from Wheloon epic chain end reward masterwork, no other affixes
compasses in Stormhorn chain end reward loot list

Not sure if these are bugs so I am bringing it to your attention.

cannot comment on the other things so I edited them out...

those things you mention there are actually supposed to be there, and always have been... kinda. there is a 'random chance' for a wondrous craftmanship item to drop as chain end reward on wheloon and stormhorns, however, you know random means some people will always get it and some never ever lol. that probably explains why no one in your group has seen them before. the heroic story arch sometimes drops items with about level 14 or something stats that come down to level 4 (!!!!).

the compass can actually be crafted... at least it used to be. haven't tried since the new cannith crafting. so it's a neat way to get craftable trinkets, if you are lucky enough to have them drop.

[changelingamuck]

Your example doesn't really work because the DDOForums are not the equivalent of walking over to another table in a restaurant and complaining

I'm comfortable enough with the fit of my metaphor, I'd say.

They should be nurturing that following and if they can reassure people in threads like this one then that is a good thing!

You think they have enough time to give individualized attention to every single poster on the forums looking for reassurance or even just to post in every single thread? They don't even do that on the players council forums, not even close. I always assume that what I post won't be replied to because that's realistic. If they gave every poster or every topic individualized attention, they wouldn't get anything done.

I do feel these forums need quite a bit more moderation than Turbine managed to offer and it would be nice if SSG could employ a dedicated TEAM of moderators {and In-Game GMs too} that worked nights and weekends!

Agreed. These forums are, and always have been, an under-moderated, structurally disorganized mess. There's basically no rhyme-or-reason to which subforums people post in based on their thread topic. Threads that are more appropriate for a different subforum are, seemingly, never moved to more appropriate subforums. People constantly start threads that are implicitly or explictly only directed at the developers, not other players. These are public threads, not private messages, but are written in the format of a private message to the developers. A very large percentage of threads are started like that. It's to the point that sometimes an OP will respond to a reply to her/his thread with "I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the developers." On a community message board for players. The overrriding, primary culture of the message boards is now one of a customer complaint department sprung to life trying to shout the loudest and most often in order to drown others out (flood control/post-spamming prevention would be nice to put it mildly). And now we have the option to post polls which people think are representative of all DDO players and it has to be explained in every thread with a poll, that that's factually, objectively false because math.

At least it's not as bad as that 'other DDO message board' where you can pinpoint how old a poster is based on which bigoted slurs they use almost like a form of carbon dating for low-lives.

I'm going off on a tangent that is ripe for turning into a de-rail in this thread though; so I'm banning myself from going down that rabbit hole further...

[FranOhmsford]

You think they have enough time to give individualized attention to every single poster on the forums looking for reassurance or even just to post in every single thread?

NO!

Why are you assuming that that's what players want when no-one has ever asked for that {I didn't ask for that if you re-read my previous post!}.

They could do more than they do right now though {and frankly I'm no fan of the DDOCouncil and feel it was a sop to players and hasn't affected the game at all well!}.

People constantly start threads that are implicitly or explictly only directed at the developers, not other players. These are public threads, not private messages, but are written in the format of a private message to the developers. A very large percentage of threads are started like that. It's to the point that sometimes an OP will respond to a reply to her/his thread with "I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to the developers." On a community message board for players. The overrriding, primary culture of the message boards is now one of a customer complaint department sprung to life trying to shout the loudest and most often in order to drown others out (flood control/post-spamming prevention would be nice to put it mildly).

Wow!

OK 1) This isn't NEW!
Players have ALWAYS come to the forums at least in the 7 years I've been playing wanting to speak to the DEVS! This isn't a new thing and it seems that that's something players EXPECT from the in-game forums! The fact that that's not how DDOForums work has to be explained to newbies over and over again {because there's always newbies! Not the same newbie but the same explanation over and over again!}.

So the question becomes:
If that's what players expect from an MMOForum WHY do they expect it? Is it something they've seen other MMO Devs do?
AND MORE IMPORTANTLY:
If NEW players expect it then why not make it so? At least in as much as Devs making an effort to interact a bit more often on the forums, scan the new posts page once a day {not read and reply to every single thread - no-one's asking for that or anything close to that!}.

What shouldn't be done is infracting or even warning new players against that sort of post because that would be a GREAT Way to chase them away!

In fact I'd say that it's the forum base's attitude to those sort of posts and other "new player mistakes" that is a greater problem {and yes that attitude has got a lot better over the years but you've just shown it's still alive and well!}.



P.S. Yes I know some of these posts {rather a lot of them actually} are posted by people with "founder" next to their name and/or a 2006 join date {joindate means nothing, they could have left the game and come back years later - they've usually got less than 100 postcount!}.
It's not just "new" players but "new/ish" forumites - Ones that don't know "the rules"!

[Seikojin]

Honestly? Because I'm generally the member of QA who lets players know when we're looking into something mentioned on the forums and I've, personally, been too busy to do that the past month or so while prepping multiple patches and simultaneously testing what is turning out to be an excitingly beefy featureset for U35 on a quick turnaround due to the way design staggered development between updates and the late date U34 ended up coming out on.

Anyways, will look into it when I get a chance this week. =]

Trust me, I hear ya there brother!

I wish my company would slow their role on the release cycles. LOL