The Nerve Of Some People....

[LadySorrows]

My husband I came back from an unwanted extended vacation from the game. Now overall my husband & I don't really need other people to quest in the game, but we open up LFM'S once in a while or sometimes (rarely) join LFM'S which are already up. Anyways, we saw an at Lvl Herioc Tempest Spine post up, we were going to run it and decided what the he ll we would give it a shot. Some great laughs through the years at some Tempest runs we have been in, not mention that we started the Naked Tempest Runs years ago.

We join this pug, and this guy leading it was male organ (to be polite). I was in there as a rogue, and my husband was a tempest ranger. We joined the LFM a couple mins after it started so we were just a bit behind the group but caught up them right around the first trap. They had already started the fight at the trap. For those who don't know if you pull the mobs through at that trap they will stop and disable it before fighting you ( good tip if you solo). They pulled the mobs through it before I got there and the mobs disabled the trap. The guy leading this group started yelling at me over the mic for not being able to find the box. I tried to tell him it was already disabled by the mobs he wouldn't listen. He made me angry but I didn't say anything, and just kept on. We came to next set of traps, which I disabled them and I moved on, anyways listening to this guy on the mic, as he is being rude. We come to the fire trap - with the lever behind it 2 boxes. I get one disabled, and going to the other one when someone in the group decides to get the lever - and dies. The leader is yelling at me to do my job. At this point I had it, might I mention there was 2 arties and one 1 other rogue in the group and none of them could trap. My husband told this guy enough they could finish without us, and I told them goodluck as we both quit the party.

We go in and 2 man Tempest just me and my husband do it all, and have it finished before this group is done with their LFM up still, looking for someone to trap for them. I knew one of the other people in the raid and he sent me a pm saying that they were still in the raid. We had finished by this time and put up an LFM for at Lvl Herioc VON 5 & 6. He asked me to save him a spot, I told him just go ahead and quit and after VON we would rerun TS for him. So he tells everyone over the mic in that group what I said, and they all drop the party and Join for VON. The guy that was leading TS tried to join my VON group and I didn't let him in. He sent me a tell saying "the nerve of some people"

Yes, the nerve of some people who don't want to be abused, can you believe my nerve?

Oh and it was a lesson relearned for me as to why I don't join pugs but lead them.

[cdbd3rd]

Only thing ya missed in the story was where ya plonked the offender.

[Saekee]

you were nice. I might have done more stuff to grief that guy, like playing like I am lost etc.
Sorry you ran into such an awful player. I have had mostly good luck in the game with PUGS.

BTW please host a nude epic Tempest Spine! If on Cannith let me know!

[Enoach]

I think you both made the right decision.

But as a note you could simply take that little slider under the leads name and slide it all the way to the left and /squelch for text chat if necessary.

Hope you had fun on your VON 5/6 and rerun of Tempest...

[Captain_Wizbang]

Ah the days of grease clickies used in front of traps to teach people like that a lesson, and have a laugh (with them afterwards)

You handled it well. Nowadays, I would drop at the 1st instance of that behavior.

Mellowed with age I guess.

[Astarii]

I ran into an idiot recently. I mad a toon and join his server specifically so that I could run with him. Unfortunately, I could not hear him well and rushed making a iconic as fast as I could, and got to the quest. It was a Necro4 fleshmakers run on normal. I was like, ok no problem, i was expecting elite out of habit all is good. Anyways, we get up to the trap part, and lock picks, and the guy wanted me to buy lock picks from the DDO store... now remember this is normal. I laughed and ran through it, I admit I was not really prepared and rushed to get there so yes that was my fault (but no one died) and the quest was completed. I even passed in the end chess a 'Ring of Unknown Origins' (i think the guy was oblivious to it). anyways, still being polite i was doing my best to help the guy. I saw a different party (almost full group) doing necro4 on elite, and suggested that we join. having a long lapse of silence i requested the other group leader to save one spot so that we may both join & after he said yes, i join. I messaged the original party leader i was trying to help out only to find out that he felt majorly wronged by my actions.

since it was actually being recorded on his side, afterward i wanted to get insight from how he felt and his thoughts. I have to say, it was not necessarily wrong. Some things did not come over the voice chat how I'm sure he intended, and with looking at how he was playing it was clear he was a novice and new to many things. I saw as he got frustrated, and how things turned out from his point of view. He also was still a jerk, and i feel none of it was necessary but it was interesting to see his perspective.

anyways, your going to always find those people that are just a tool around.... unfortunately, we have to just deal with it. Your perspective is defiantly coming from someone who has experience, his is not (and i'm sure out of frustration he made his choices or comments as well). just keep your chin up, and try and help when you can. not everyone is like that, and perhaps in time they will get better. heck, who knows they could have even been the same person. :P

[Grandern_Marn]

I'm not one to squelch people, if at all I will friend someone and leave a note on their conduct. Most notes I have for people are from good runs we had together. There are a couple of people who often post lfms who I won't join just from unsatisfactory experiences with them, I know them by name. I don't mind them joining an LFM that I have up but I think as group leader you should hopefully have decent knowledge of the quest and if you don't know it so well or don't have the skills to do a certain task, will openly defer to those who are able to do so.

I love PUGs because it's like rolling a d20 on the party you play with. Sometimes your roll a 20 and have an awesome experience, sometimes you roll a 1 and it's too bad for you but, hey, its all a part of the game.

[Sorczilla]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Some people just like to be keyboard warriors I guess. I can see how that would sour you to join raid LFM's.

That being said, my name in game is Drazalina and I am in the guild The Explorers of Thelanis. We have a contingent of people that love running raids. But we can't always fill our parties up with guildies so we set up LFM's. As a group, most of us have known each other for a while and none of us are drama queens. We like to have fun. We laugh, joke while we raid and we have no use for people that act like the way you have described in the party you joined. That beind said, if you ever see a LFM up for a raid under the name Drazalina or Ghomezz, please know that you and your husband would be more than welcome to join to experience some drama free fun....I only wish I could make the same promise about the experience being lag free lol. We run just about all the raids....at least the major ones and no one in our group has an ego so if you know an easier way of doing things or have a tip on how to do something, the people in our group are open minded and always willing to learn something new.

[hp1055cm]

Too much drama. I don't know I wasn't there, maybe the guy deserved the harsh treatment you gave him.
Although, even if the guy was being a bit of a jerk, it sounds like you were just as big a jerk as he was IMO.
The fact that you posted in the forums to brag about trashing him is truly amazing to me.

Since you and your partner sound like the vets how hard is it to explain that you need a little more patience for the trapping?
Or to bite your lip and just finish out the quest? You didn't just bail on the leader - you bailed on everyone in the group.
I run heroic TS often and can't say I ever "needed" a trapper to complete it - so this group must have been a bunch of inexperienced players.

Try taking the high road next time - in the long run it is much more gratifying.

[J1NG]

I can sympathise with the OP. And can only recommend you add them to your friend list, list them why they are not desirable to join up with and to never join anything with them in again.

I saw first hand, a "non leader" of a group (another PuG'er) send tells over to one of my "unknown" toon (it's a spare account toon; I have lots of those and like to meet new players with them), and they began to berate my gaming skills during the first days of the crazy lag that we're now familiar with. Anyone remember trying to activate your clickies, spells, effects, abilities etc and seeing them not trigger many seconds later? Or randomly triggering one but not another? Forcing you to keep spamming them until they triggered? Yeah, during that period. Even after trying to explain the lag situation, I was returned a snarky reply.

Anyway, that managed to convince me to blacklist an entire guild and that players toons. The first of either as well. The only other toons, players and guilds on that list are all plat farmers from 09. So that's a nice achievement for them.

You'll get all sorts in all areas and levels of the game, so just keep a certain group out and keep watching the PuG scene, sometimes you get to meet some really great players. The players with poor form should simply be avoided with the tools available. Don't let a few players spoil the game and meeting the other great players in the game.

J1NG

[IronClan]

It's just life, you're going to meet "that guy" sooner or later, and in MMO's with geeks and nerds some of whom are notoriously socially awkward the chances are probably even higher. Honestly its sometimes surprising how seldom you run into this sort of thing.

It doesn't even have to be a real life jerk, anonymity brings out the worst in most people, just look at the forums, this one and others, hell I'm guilty of it at times myself I can own that. And then I'm sure that some people are sometimes just guilty of rubbing each other the wrong way even if they would likely get along fine otherwise (I have this vibe going with a couple people on Thelanis. Then again sometimes you run into the guy who just had a real life problem and is not in a good place, maybe just trying to forget RL for a while...

Long and short though is OP handled it well and got the last laugh. Some people when given the star transform into excellent capable and understanding leaders... Or even just "we'll trudge through and make it work" type people. Some people turn out to be completely out of their element, get defensive, and start blaming others because they think they will look bad if ANYTHING goes wrong or is not totally smooth. Those are the people you have to watch out for.

IMO though they are few and far between in the grand scheme of things.

[lasertagbugzapper]

your pot before this starts with "im not one to complain but..." but the last two posts on the thelanis forums are both from you complaining.
im just not sure what you hope to achieve from posting a negative story about an anonymous thelanis pugger.
if you just need to vent how about to your husband and in private?
if everyone posted a thread every time they had a bad experience with a random pugger no one would ever be able to make their shroud sets. is that a world anyone want to live in? without shroud sets?

[DYWYPI]

From my perspective; it sounded like that guy was; frustrated, stressed and possibly not used to refined conduct as a Raid Leader - he certainly appeared to lacking in the tact department. Neither is it likely he's played a Rogue or "trapper" and possibly not that over-familiar with Tempest's Spine mechanics.

I've soloed Tempest's Spine on my Assassin before (to explore and understand it better) and been within a Raid group for said quest a handful of times... I don't know the quest map that well. Luckily the few times I entered it, I've been in good PUGs for Tempest's.

I can understand some of the irritation it caused you; about him broadcasting "[that your Rogue] wasn't able to find the box" if you know the raid trap mechanics much better than the Leader that was "barking" orders, e.g. "Why can't you find the Box?".

Presumably for whatever reason there was a "breakdown in communication" when you told him that trap had already be 'disarmed'. Most likely he was preoccupied and not fully-listening or had selective hearing.

Whenever I've been left far behind in a PUG group and if they've ever asked for me to "hurry" to disarm a box, which is extremely rare they ask me to hurry. I make it crystal-clear; it will get done when I can safely get there. That tactic has never failed...

That even worked; when I was in a terribly run PUG (luckily only once I've been a truly bad PUG) for both: 'The Bounty Hunter' and 'Gwylan's Stand'. It was a full group; there was another Rogue that NEVER attempted to disable traps but did Search successfully. But he NEVER indicated he'd found the boxes either – I can only presume he thought, he was helping me by finding the boxes LOL.

Even the TR Cleric [Leader] was threatening not to Resurrect him anymore; the other Rogue repeatedly tried to zerg-tank his Assassin-build (he appeared pretty clueless about Rogue tactics). Anyway, [other Rogue] wasnt the main problem. It was the mindless TR Cleric Leader that 'Zerged', missing Optional(s), etc., and wondered why the NPCs weren't functioning, and quest items not acquired, etc. Anyway, he and two of the group just started squabbling - oh dear... LOL

Again, I took time and explained in-depth why if they "skipped" certain quest goals, they couldn't progress, and they accepted that, etc. :-/

Anyway, I can sympathise with you, if it seemed you were getting flack, when the other "Trappers" couldn't "perform" (for whatever reason).

Luckily my Assassin Rogue has never failed to find or disable a box even though she isn't a trapper build. Tempest's Spine search DC; from a very educated guess; Search DC: 33, so not exceptionally high.

As a general rule for heroic [F2P] quests for Elite difficulty the 'Spot and Search' DCs tend to increase by either: +2 or +3 DC per quest level. There are a few rare odd exceptions to the rule.

Getting back to your experience; it looks like he became irrationally irate later on, if you were the only character actually managing to successfully disable Control boxes and he had raised his voice in anger? I presume you told him that you could not be held responsible for people that ran head-first into traps – but in a more tactful manner. ;)

As a general-rule I'll warn people in a PUG via Party /tell, if there are traps in close proximity (or ahead) and even when I have disarmed them. That's for the benefit of the few, if they don't heed my advice regarding traps that is their loss or foolhardiness, etc.

There is strong probability he was also lacking in some social skills. However, the fact that he asked "to join" [your] VON raids means he cannot have been that disappointed with your Rogue (or was aware of some of his failings) or he wouldn't have asked. :)


Yes. I've been in PUGs with people from the "The Explorers of Thelanis" (TEoT) and have noted the few I have been with have gone out of their way to be extra helpful they even said they'd be very happy quest with me in future. One guy from [TEoT] was even asking if I needed underwater breathing in Maze of Madness. Of course I didn't, even though he wasn't familiar with the quest and a little eager that made fights harder for him, he "listened" and took notice. Thus making it much smoother when it came to Levers and traps, etc. :)

As a general rule most PUGs seem to run fine, occasionally you'll come across a flop but you have to be adaptable and accept diversity but need not tolerate over abusive and belittling behaviour towards others players. :)

[Ykt]

The guy leading this group started yelling at me
he wouldn't listen
he is being rude
The leader is yelling at me to do my job

I'd just get up and do some chores or alt-tab and do something else and simply pike the raid. Do something else with your time and still get a reward for unjustly being yelled at.

And I would certainly not post a thread about it on the forums. I encounter stupid people everyday, I don't have time to write a story every time they do something stupid.

[LadySorrows]

Too much drama. I don't know I wasn't there, maybe the guy deserved the harsh treatment you gave him.
Although, even if the guy was being a bit of a jerk, it sounds like you were just as big a jerk as he was IMO.
The fact that you posted in the forums to brag about trashing him is truly amazing to me.

Since you and your partner sound like the vets how hard is it to explain that you need a little more patience for the trapping?
Or to bite your lip and just finish out the quest? You didn't just bail on the leader - you bailed on everyone in the group.
I run heroic TS often and can't say I ever "needed" a trapper to complete it - so this group must have been a bunch of inexperienced players.

Try taking the high road next time - in the long run it is much more gratifying.

Fair enough -- but how long should I bite my lip for? Now understand it was not just me he was being rude to. Being a veteran, there is a couple of things I know for sure -- If you allow people to abuse you -- then they will because others who haven bitten their lip and just finished out the quest let him/her. It's called enabling. The other thing I know is that, I appreciate your lovely description of me being jerk or bragging or was it trashing him? I didn't mention a name and I could have, I didn't mention a guild and I could have, and it isn't trash when someone openly acts that way in front of 11 other people. It's the truth -- I do appreciate your candid opinion, though. Oh and by the way I didn't quit on the rest of the party, what I did is lead them through a complete on VON 5 6 and a complete on TS. Might I also add they were great runs, with lots of laughter and chat.

Maybe I was jerk, I guess all I can say is the nerve of some people.

[LadySorrows]

I totally understand where you are coming from. Some people just like to be keyboard warriors I guess. I can see how that would sour you to join raid LFM's.

That being said, my name in game is Drazalina and I am in the guild The Explorers of Thelanis. We have a contingent of people that love running raids. But we can't always fill our parties up with guildies so we set up LFM's. As a group, most of us have known each other for a while and none of us are drama queens. We like to have fun. We laugh, joke while we raid and we have no use for people that act like the way you have described in the party you joined. That beind said, if you ever see a LFM up for a raid under the name Drazalina or Ghomezz, please know that you and your husband would be more than welcome to join to experience some drama free fun....I only wish I could make the same promise about the experience being lag free lol. We run just about all the raids....at least the major ones and no one in our group has an ego so if you know an easier way of doing things or have a tip on how to do something, the people in our group are open minded and always willing to learn something new.

Thank you Drazlina, If I see your LFM up I might hit it up. Happy Raiding :-}

[LadySorrows]

your pot before this starts with "im not one to complain but..." but the last two posts on the thelanis forums are both from you complaining.
im just not sure what you hope to achieve from posting a negative story about an anonymous thelanis pugger.
if you just need to vent how about to your husband and in private?
if everyone posted a thread every time they had a bad experience with a random pugger no one would ever be able to make their shroud sets. is that a world anyone want to live in? without shroud sets?

Lol, I'm not one to complain look back through all of my posts in all the years I have been playing this is one the other is about the horrible lag we have been enduring. Believe I have not even come close to posting EVERY time I had a bad experience with a pugger, just that was one of the worst -- if not the absolute worst I have ever had. When I said abusive it was not just a descriptive word -- it was what he was. I know many people on the server who have their bad moments, but this was beyond that. Though you may not feel it was worthy of posting I do. I do appreciate your opinion -- I just don't agree with it.

[DYWYPI]

The only PUG raid-size groups I tend to run are Smuggler's Rest and Night Revels' slaying. The tiny guild I'm in only has one other active player; he revolves play; TRs on all servers, so rarely see him. Thus grouping is chiefly PUGs. Though if I lead a quest, or even if something unusual stood out, I'll sometimes ask for feedback or personally thank people afterwards. Fortunately any feedback has all been positive.

Presumably within that VON group; several people ended-up mentioning in passing the 'Tempest's Spine' leader was a little out-of-order, if not I'd find that unusual. If he was a member of a large sized guild, it might have been worth contacting their Guild Leader explaining your concerns.

I concur that unless he was having a truly "terrible off his usual good-form type-of-day" it's likely he'd repeat those type of hostile actions.

I'd also suspect we were given the toned-down condensed version of events and presuming that is correct, it's clear he did have some "issues". Fortunately those types of people tend to be rare in PUGs.

Occasionally you have people with; different play styles, obsessives, overinflated egos, etc., within group that don't match well, a thick-skin and adaptability, plus good communication and patience can help there. ;)

Albeit, there is a clearly marked difference between that, i.e. "badly-matched play style" and verbal harassment of other people within group. Alas on the positive side, you know it might not be wise to group with him in future but you should not let that difficult experience tarnish your opinion about joining PUGs more regularly. :)

[LadySorrows]

Presumably within that VON group; several people ended-up mentioning in passing the 'Tempest's Spine' leader was a little out-of-order, if not I'd find that unusual. If he was a member of a large sized guild, it might have been worth contacting their Guild Leader explaining your concerns.

I concur that unless he was having a truly "terrible off his usual good-form type-of-day" it's likely he'd repeat those type of hostile actions.

I'd also suspect we were given the toned-down condensed version of events and presuming that is correct, it's clear he did have some "issues". Fortunately those types of people tend to be rare in PUGs.


You are absolutely right, it was a very toned-down condensed version, and you hit the nail on the head with one sentence as to why I actually posted this at all

I concur that unless he was having a truly "terrible off his usual good-form type-of-day" it's likely he'd repeat those type of hostile actions.

I would hate to think that a newer player or a shy player would run in his group and think that it was an ok way to lead a group, or worse that is how raids are led -- those being the first 2 raids any newer player would run would leave a really bad impression of raiding. Absolutely, there was conversation about his behavior in the VON 5 6 raid.