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  1. #1
    Community Member Basura_Grande's Avatar
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    Default So after all these changes . . . is a Ranger 20 full-time bow user a good idea?

    Just curious, have a toon ready for this with all the PLs, gear (even an Epic Thornlord), etc . . .

    Haven't been following the archer stuff too much, can this be a strong option or is it just flavor? I'm not interested in flavor at this time.

  2. #2
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Did you think that build was a good idea after the Stalker changes?

    If I'm not mistaken all its gained is +1 crit multiplier and 7d8 on hit elemental damage that scales with spell power.

    72-92% double shot 100% of the time as stalker tier 5 aa capstone build. I'm not sure if that's enough, might be though.
    25% AA Capstone + Shadow Arrows
    20% Stalker Tier 5
    20% Killer
    10% ED Feat
    09% PL
    08% Gear
    92% Total

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    25% AA Capstone + Shadow Arrows
    20% Stalker Tier 5
    20% Killer
    10% ED Feat
    09% PL
    08% Gear
    92% Total
    Interesting: so you think the +20% doubleshot and other bonuses of T5 DWS are better than T5 AA now? Giving up Slaying Arrow and calling oneself an AA feels...odd, but it's certainly an option. What were you thinking: 41 APs AA, 39 APs DWS? EDIT: also which ED?
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  4. #4
    Community Member FestusHood's Avatar
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    What do you think about a pure 20 monk archer using elven aa?

  5. #5
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Interesting: so you think the +20% doubleshot and other bonuses of T5 DWS are better than T5 AA now? Giving up Slaying Arrow and calling oneself an AA feels...odd, but it's certainly an option. What were you thinking: 41 APs AA, 39 APs DWS? EDIT: also which ED?
    My thought on bow users has always been the rate of fire was too slow but I always felt that if I could shot two shots at once that would be enough to make it good. So given that doubleshot can roll over now I think maxing double shot is the way to go on a 20 Ranger Archer.

    Haven't given the enhancement spread enough though so no clue but it looks like yes 41 39 which leaves nothing for harper or human ouch that might be what kills the build to AP tight. I'm not sure if tier 5 stalker is better then slayer arrows. I just think given the change to Manyshot its a good idea to try and boost your sustained DPS over your burst DPS.

  6. #6
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    My pure ranger AA is doing a lot more damage than it used to.

    It wasn't **totally** gimped before, but it was flavor compared to the FOTM builds. Its probably still not top tier but it gained some ground for sure.
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  7. #7
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    It wasn't **totally** gimped before, but it was flavor compared to the FOTM builds. Its probably still not top tier but it gained some ground for sure.
    This is my read on pure Ranger Archers right now they aren't a top tier build but there not gimp flavor builds any more either. Could be wrong one way or the other, will see.

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grailhawk View Post
    Haven't given the enhancement spread enough though so no clue but it looks like yes 41 39 which leaves nothing for harper or human ouch that might be what kills the build to AP tight. I'm not sure if tier 5 stalker is better then slayer arrows. I just think given the change to Manyshot its a good idea to try and boost your sustained DPS over your burst DPS.
    I'm guessing Slaying Arrows are better for FotW (presuming Adrenaline still applies); but that T5 DWS is better for other EDs, particularly DC (now that Doubleshot is useful, Zeal of the Righteous is good) and LD (more proc chances means easier time keeping Blitz up).

    But I don't have any epic AAs and only one epic char w/Manyshot, IIRC, so I can't do a lot of testing on my own.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Basura_Grande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FestusHood View Post
    What do you think about a pure 20 monk archer using elven aa?
    I'd rather uninstall the game and set my PC on fire.

  10. #10
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I'm guessing Slaying Arrows are better for FotW (presuming Adrenaline still applies); but that T5 DWS is better for other EDs, particularly DC (now that Doubleshot is useful, Zeal of the Righteous is good) and LD (more proc chances means easier time keeping Blitz up).
    That makes a lot of sense.

  11. #11
    Community Member Basura_Grande's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I'm guessing Slaying Arrows are better for FotW (presuming Adrenaline still applies); but that T5 DWS is better for other EDs, particularly DC (now that Doubleshot is useful, Zeal of the Righteous is good) and LD (more proc chances means easier time keeping Blitz up).

    But I don't have any epic AAs and only one epic char w/Manyshot, IIRC, so I can't do a lot of testing on my own.
    I'm not sure bout slayers and adrenalines, wondering if you can keep up enough blitz charges.

  12. #12
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basura_Grande View Post
    I'm not sure bout slayers and adrenalines, wondering if you can keep up enough blitz charges.
    That's what I'm wondering too. Based on Grailhawk's numbers, you can hit 72% base Doubleshot, +20% when Killer is fully charged. This goes up to 204% Doubleshot with Manyshot (BAB 28 * 4, use Div Power or Tensers for max BAB).

    So I guess the idea would be: charge up Killer first for +20% DS, then hit Blitz+Manyshot, pew-pew as many mobs as you can to charge up Blitz. Then just try to keep your 92% DS & Blitz going.

    EDIT: I'm guessing Pulverizer still applies with Morphic Arrows active, but that means disabling Shadow Arrows. I don't know which is better for DPS, but +5% doubleshot is more important to keeping Blitz going than +1 crit range.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    EDIT: I'm guessing Pulverizer still applies with Morphic Arrows active, but that means disabling Shadow Arrows. I don't know which is better for DPS, but +5% doubleshot is more important to keeping Blitz going than +1 crit range.
    I could be wrong but I'm under the impression that shadow arrows needs to be up to get the +1 crit multiplier as well?

  14. #14
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    "Shadow Arrows (Core, 18 levels of Ranger) gains Passive: Equipped bows gain +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier."

    I'm inferring this means that the crit bonus is passive while the secondary imbue remains the same (+5% Doubleshot); but I don't have a rgr 18 build I can check it on (unless I LR something, which I may).
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  15. #15
    Community Member Grailhawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    "Shadow Arrows (Core, 18 levels of Ranger) gains Passive: Equipped bows gain +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier."

    I'm inferring this means that the crit bonus is passive while the secondary imbue remains the same (+5% Doubleshot); but I don't have a rgr 18 build I can check it on (unless I LR something, which I may).
    Ya I think you are right. I must have just missed the passive part.

  16. #16
    Founder smithers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basura_Grande View Post
    I'd rather uninstall the game and set my PC on fire.
    My most powerful character is... ahem... was Ranger 2 Monk 18

    Built to solo elite content which requires some kiting, which is why I wanted max speed from Monk 18 (When ranger speed boost is also loaded I think he's the fastest thing in Eberron. Monk 20 would leave you short on feats with not much to show for the last two monk levels.

    With manyshot, 10k stars, high wisdom, and good gear, any archer build could do insane damage in FOTW.

    The fun of the build was really timing the burst damage and using twitch skills to line up mobs; so satisfying to one-shot a whole gang. With adrenaline now firing on 1-2 arrows instead of 4 offered by manyshot I'm pretty sure my guy has been seriously gimped, and think this will be true for any archer build that was competitive at all prior to the update.

    Unfortunately my other 2 mains were S&B Pally (also gimped) and a necromancer who ran in full plate with tower (build doesn't even make any **** sense after the update!)
    Last edited by smithers; 10-22-2015 at 07:54 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    My pure ranger AA is doing a lot more damage than it used to.

    It wasn't **totally** gimped before, but it was flavor compared to the FOTM builds. Its probably still not top tier but it gained some ground for sure.
    Unfortunately, my pure ranger AA is doing exactly the same amount of damage she was yesterday. And less than she was before with Manyshot.
    I wouldn't waste my time if I was you, you'll be very disappointed.

    Unless this is all fixed very soon, mine will be TR'd into a mechanic rogue. Rather sad, as I have enjoyed playing her.
    Last edited by Aletys; 10-22-2015 at 08:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Community Member kyostal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aletys View Post
    Unfortunately, my pure ranger AA is doing exactly the same amount of damage she was yesterday. And less than she was before with Manyshot.
    I wouldn't waste my time if I was you, you'll be very disappointed.

    Unless this is all fixed very soon, mine will be TR'd into a mechanic rogue. Rather sad, as I have enjoyed playing her.
    You must be doing something wrong then? Perhaps you have no doubleshot to make up for the arrow loss during manyshot, because if you had even the minimum of 27% (9% ED past life, 8% quiver, 10% epic 28 feat), you would be doing at the very least, 8% more dmg during manyshot. With a full bab (Tensers) you would be doing 21% more dmg during the manyshot.

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