What are your thoughts on pure dex-based build ideas for Tempests right now?

[Saekee]

Just thinking--maybe a valenar elf--scimitar buffs--take dragonmark for displacement (metamagic extend spell). Offhand EMG, ToEE set in offhand later.

aside from TF weapons, for non-endgame: use frostbites on mobs to rapidly stack lethargy? Obviously Balizarde would be nice (has keen so no need for IC: Pierce), but I do not have one. Then there is also the Stars of Day line of weapons with their nice attack range, Celestia DR breaker.


I can imagine blasting through heroics with vampiric weapons, that is not an issue.

The tempest is not critical-hit-dependent, so there might be other interesting options.

[daniel7]

What do your feats look like Saekee?

1. Dragon Mark
3. ?
6. Extend
9. Improve Critical
12. Improve Critical Ranged
15.Maximize or Empower
18. Quicken
21. Overwhelming Critical
24. ?
27. ?

Maybe skip the dragon mark and use blur and displacement clickies

Starting Stats something like this but move str,con,int around to your liking or to fit your tomes
str: 13
dex: 19
con: 13
int: 14 - Harper?
wis: 10
cha: 8

Feats:
1 precision
3 dodge
6 mobility
9 imp crit slash
12 imp crit ranged
15 maximize or empower
18 quicken
21 overwhelming crit
24 spring attack
26 perfect two weapon fighting
27 epic damage reduction
28 elusive target

[the_one_dwarfforged]

unfortunately, i think going elf would be a ton weaker than human. it takes a lot of ap to get the full line of +dmg to scims, dex-to-dmg, and 3% dstrike. points better spend in dws and harper.

[Saekee]

What do your feats look like Saekee?

1. Dragon Mark
3. ?
6. Extend
9. Improve Critical
12. Improve Critical Ranged
15.Maximize or Empower
18. Quicken
21. Overwhelming Critical
24. ?
27. ?

Maybe skip the dragon mark and use blur and displacement clickies

Starting Stats something like this but move str,con,int around to your liking or to fit your tomes
str: 13
dex: 19
con: 13
int: 14 - Harper?
wis: 10
cha: 8

Feats:
1 precision
3 dodge
6 mobility
9 imp crit slash
12 imp crit ranged
15 maximize or empower
18 quicken
21 overwhelming crit
24 spring attack
26 perfect two weapon fighting
27 epic damage reduction
28 elusive target

That could work--I was thinking of this before the crit enhancements came through. You can really dump str since everything can be dex based. I was thinking of a stealthy toon too so heavy dex is nice. But you would be missing trapping and for stealth, dropping noisemakers is very fun (at least 4 rogue for trapmaking).

unfortunately, i think going elf would be a ton weaker than human. it takes a lot of ap to get the full line of +dmg to scims, dex-to-dmg, and 3% dstrike. points better spend in dws and harper.

you don't need elven grace for the dex to damage (it is in the tempest tree) but I agree that it is costly. I think it is only about 12 ap for the dragonmarks. It would make a decent build for new players who do not have displacement clickies (or people like me that do not want to grind them out). But I have since reincarnated into a pure assassin, which is my favorite class (I have been away from it too long with monk splashes!).

[daniel7]

Yeah I find it hard to use anything but Human with almost any build, pure Ranger being one of them. Soon, however, I think most Monchers will be Elven when AA changes.

Scimitars with DEX for damage is pretty much given to you at Ranger level 3:
Tempest: +10% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding weapons. You now treat Scimitars as if they were light melee weapons. While you are dual wielding, you can use your dexterity modifier to hit with light melee weapons.
Note: Does not work with handwraps.</div>
I like Scimitars but I'd probably rather collect Rapiers to use on other lives that might require light-medium weapons. Tempest does work with Rapier even though it's a medium sized right? Not sure if that's working as intended.

I've always preferred Strength over Dexterity but I'm thinking about TRing a toon that has a lot of Rapiers into a DEX Ranger to give it a try. I'll probably pick feats similar to CThruTheEgo's feats, though I might skip Mobility and use Duelist's Leather instead.

[Saekee]

Yeah I find it hard to use anything but Human with almost any build, pure Ranger being one of them. Soon, however, I think most Monchers will be Elven when AA changes.

Scimitars with DEX for damage is pretty much given to you at Ranger level 3:
Tempest: +10% stacking chance to make off-hand attacks when dual wielding weapons. You now treat Scimitars as if they were light melee weapons. While you are dual wielding, you can use your dexterity modifier to hit with light melee weapons.
Note: Does not work with handwraps.</div>
I like Scimitars but I'd probably rather collect Rapiers to use on other lives that might require light-medium weapons. Tempest does work with Rapier even though it's a medium sized right? Not sure if that's working as intended.

I've always preferred Strength over Dexterity but I'm thinking about TRing a toon that has a lot of Rapiers into a DEX Ranger to give it a try. I'll probably pick feats similar to CThruTheEgo's feats, though I might skip Mobility and use Duelist's Leather instead.

Rapiers are weird but they qualify as a finesse weapon for dex builds. I think they might give a to-hit penalty in the offhand as an oversized weapon, which is not an issue anyway.

Another option for light weapons is the kukri if you are still collecting them. Then assassins can benefit
too. Daggers are the better rogue choice due to all the named ones but until level 12 (when assassins can take IC) kukris are slightly better than daggers.

[CThruTheEgo]

Tempest does work with Rapier even though it's a medium sized right? Not sure if that's working as intended.

My clarification on this from another thread:

To clarify, light weapons include dagger, short sword, light pick, light hammer, light mace, sickle, hand axe, and kukri. Rapier does not count as a light weapon, but is an exception which is affected by weapon finesse.

The second tempest core allows you to treat scimitars as a light weapon and to use your dex modifier for to hit with light weapons, which does not include rapier. The third tempest core allows you to use your dex modifier for damage with light weapons, which now includes scimitars but still not rapiers.

Improved weapon finesse from deepwood stalker allows you to use your dex modifier for damage with any weapon that you can use your dex modifier for to hit. So in order to use dex for damage with a rapier as a ranger, you need to take the weapon finesse feat (which allows you to use dex for to hit with a rapier) and improved weapon finesse in deepwood stalker.

The feat requirement for improved weapon finesse was removed so that the enhancement could enable dex to damage with bows (the elf tree is the only other way) and thrown weapons without requiring ranged builds to take a melee feat. But if you don't take the feat, then you won't get dex to hit with rapiers. So if you want to use rapiers and get dex to damage, you still need to take weapon finesse and improved weapon finesse. In fact, before improved weapon finesse included bows and thrown weapons (i.e. before the revamp), the only weapon it really affected was rapiers, because why would anyone who intended to melee not already be taking the second and third cores of tempest which allowed dex to damage with every other finesse-able weapon and scimitars (the slashing equivalent of rapiers).

So rapiers are a poor choice because they require a feat and 1 AP to get what scimitars get for free. The only problem with that is there are much better named rapiers (e.g. Balizarde) than scimitars, but that doesn't really matter near endgame when crafted weapons are the best option.

If you have tested in game and found that rapier is receiving dex to hit and damage from the tempest cores (i.e. without weapon finesse and improved weapon finesse), I would be interested to know.

[unbongwah]

I've posted a DEX-based elf in the Tempest trapmonkey thread. Converting it into a pure rgr is just a matter of dropping a feat (probably Extend or Blinding Speed) and tweaking Enhancements a bit. If you have Harper, there's a temptation to bump up INT and take Know the Angles, except I dunno what I'd drop to make room for it. Ironically, the rgr PrEs went from so weaksauce I didn't know what to spend my APs on (other than Dance of Death) to so good I don't know what I'm willing to give up for Harper or racial PrEs!

[adrian69]

I've posted a DEX-based elf in the Tempest trapmonkey thread. Converting it into a pure rgr is just a matter of dropping a feat (probably Extend or Blinding Speed) and tweaking Enhancements a bit. If you have Harper, there's a temptation to bump up INT and take Know the Angles, except I dunno what I'd drop to make room for it. Ironically, the rgr PrEs went from so weaksauce I didn't know what to spend my APs on (other than Dance of Death) to so good I don't know what I'm willing to give up for Harper or racial PrEs!

Unfortunate, but so true.

I went 18/1 rogue/1 barbarian to zerg through heroics and LR to 20 ranger in epics. However, I feel that DWS Core 6 is the better deal, but I want to pick up tier 5s from Tempest. The math for all this is 41 DWS (and I haven't even really looked to see if there's still enough to take to get there) and 39 in tempest and I still would like other things there, which I've looked at.

I do wish the CD or return on 1000 Cuts was better, even though it's 3 AP now. I might skip it since I'm getting it from cores anyway.

I should have went one fighter and picked up heavy armor and khops...for now...

[unbongwah]

However, I feel that DWS Core 6 is the better deal, but I want to pick up tier 5s from Tempest. The math for all this is 41 DWS (and I haven't even really looked to see if there's still enough to take to get there) and 39 in tempest and I still would like other things there, which I've looked at.

I thought about it - +10 Melee Power vs +25% offhand doublestrike - but decided that the problem is going from 26 APs (Killer + Survivalist III + Adv Sneak Atk) to 41 APs (capstone) without taking DWS T5s involves taking a bunch of blah abilities, IMHO. If I wanted a more balanced melee / ranged build, particularly with the changes to Manyshot, I would actually consider T5 DWS: extra FE (which also means +2 dmg to all FEs), +5 to bow dmg, +10% doublestrike, +20% doubleshot, +5 Melee / Ranged Power. I'll have to dust off one of my elf rgrs just to see if it's a viable option.