Fix Iconic TR after ETR

[Brandall]

I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

[Enoach]

I've had a few guildmates get caught by this even with it documented with Iconics as well as the Iconic Stone vs Epic Stone.

It is interesting to hear they are considering this change, but it does concern me that it could potentially open up options where a player only needs to play 5 levels per life simply using an Iconic. It would cheapen the Completionist even more so than the XP stone.

I just hope if they do change this that they are careful in how they do this.

On the otherhand it might be nice to create more storage options available to players (probably purchase) to give them an alternative storage to TR Cache.

[Miow]

I've had a few guildmates get caught by this even with it documented with Iconics as well as the Iconic Stone vs Epic Stone.

It is interesting to hear they are considering this change, but it does concern me that it could potentially open up options where a player only needs to play 5 levels per life simply using an Iconic. It would cheapen the Completionist even more so than the XP stone.

I just hope if they do change this that they are careful in how they do this.

On the otherhand it might be nice to create more storage options available to players (probably purchase) to give them an alternative storage to TR Cache.

Well said

[UurlockYgmeov]

I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

No.

That would give 2 past live feats for only doing half of the work. Iconics are from lv15 to lv28 (currently) and to be able to ER then TR isn't fair and this has been beaten to death back when reincarnation was revamped and IR/ER was introduced.

IR is exclusive - must be at CAP and then can come back as lv1 or lv15 (iconic or non-iconic). That is the point - else you would get a past life feat for going from 15 to 20 - and that just isn't fair, just or right.

[unbongwah]

Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

[Gljosh]

Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

This please this!!!! I have done a few Iconic TRs and currently have maxed out Martial and Primal spheres. Would love to drain that XP and pick up some more Epic Past Lives.

[diodore]

Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

/signed

unbongwah, this is a great idea; an elegant simplification to the current reincarnation bureaucracy. (Honestly, have you ever tried to explain reincarnation options to a new player?) Please promote this idea however you can.

To summarize, TR and ITR would cost experience as they do now; ETR would cost karma only.

[darkly_dreaming]

I just can't get on this band wagon. I've done 12 iconic past lives, and did a few epic TR's during the process. It was very clear from the beginning that it was an either/or proposition. You get to 28 and TR iconic, or you get to 28 and TR epic.

It's also been pretty well hashed out on these forums that if you want a 2-4-1 deal you do a Heroic life all the way to 28, then ETR and TR after.

[diodore]

I just can't get on this band wagon.

Sorry, which bandwagon? There are two to choose from.

[Munkenmo]

Iconics shouldn't get to TR directly after an ETR, people would abuse it for 5 level pastlives.

@ 28 the following needs to be done:

The current ITR gets renamed to Iconic Class TR - This one when used at 28 gives a class pastlife and iconic racial past life.
introduce another ITR called Iconic Karmic TR - This one when used at 28 will give an epic pastlife (resetting your chosen spheres karma) and the iconic racial past life.

[Oxarhamar]

Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

This is a wonderful idea.

I approve

[Alternative]

It should be possible to TR at any point after reaching level 28, and so what if you get a "free-ish" epic past life? For one you still need karma, and two there's already a sh*t ton of off destiny grind between epic past lives and fate points grind. I have 3 epic completionists, was considering making a fourth one but when I remembered the grind required to make a decent char it gave me nausea.

[diodore]

Iconics shouldn't get to TR directly after an ETR, people would abuse it for 5 level pastlives.

To be clear, unbongwah's proposal does not enable the five-level-past-life abuse. An ITR would cost experience as needed to drop in level from cap to 15. A TR would cost experience as needed to drop in level from 20+ to 1. An ETR would cost karma only (as opposed to experience and karma). The only change would be to the cost of an ETR. Some virtues of the proposal are that

(1) it resolves the OP's issue that iconic TRs result in "orphaned" karma;
(2) it allows a person to grind out EPLs while at cap;
(3) it simplifies an overly complicated system.

[Oxarhamar]

It should be possible to TR at any point after reaching level 28, and so what if you get a "free-ish" epic past life? For one you still need karma, and two there's already a sh*t ton of off destiny grind between epic past lives and fate points grind. I have 3 epic completionists, was considering making a fourth one but when I remembered the grind required to make a decent char it gave me nausea.

You can TR at any point beyond 20, you cannot ITR unless you are level 28, as it should be.

[diodore]

You can TR at any point beyond 20, you cannot ITR unless you are level 28, as it should be.

Fixed, thank you.

[RTFM]

This is Working as Intended, and although it may be a confusing at first, a simple reading of the wiki page explains it: http://ddowiki.com/page/Iconic_True_Reincarnation

The mechanics of this are pretty clear if you read in game messages as well. It is also clear if you have read release notes. The reason it is there is because simultaneous EPIC and ICONIC TR was probably seen as being getting too much too fast (three past life feats every iconic life). Also seems reasonable to me the way the current rules work.

I know many have had this issue, run the iconic up to 28, ETR.....then only after you've emptied your TR cache and glutted up your inventory, you go to TR only to get told u must be 28

Once you've hit 28...the milestone required to TR as an iconic it should allow you to TR at any point after that.

I had a convo with a GM regarding this mechanic and he stated that it was something that they were considering revising in the future.

Please revise it.
Most people I know have gotten messed up because of this, I stopped playing for a month because of it myself

[Mithavenger]

I read all the comments so far as well as the original posters thoughts but l feel the system is fine how it is as l have done 36 ETR's, alot of my 35 heroics as Itr's and l have worked for all of those so just because you want to cheapen the process and make it easy too bad as those of us who worked for it all had to work for it and Itr's were made to require 28 for a reason. If you want to get your heroics it is simple enough to do the whole etr/htr way but itr's are not meant to be easy as they give 2 PL's each time for a reason and it isn't hard to farm out heart seeds and tokens so that isn't an issue either though and there are many ways to farm experience in the game so lack of quests or xp can't be used for an excuse

[legendkilleroll]

I read all the comments so far as well as the original posters thoughts but l feel the system is fine how it is as l have done 36 ETR's, alot of my 35 heroics as Itr's and l have worked for all of those so just because you want to cheapen the process and make it easy too bad as those of us who worked for it all had to work for it and Itr's were made to require 28 for a reason. If you want to get your heroics it is simple enough to do the whole etr/htr way but itr's are not meant to be easy as they give 2 PL's each time for a reason and it isn't hard to farm out heart seeds and tokens so that isn't an issue either though and there are many ways to farm experience in the game so lack of quests or xp can't be used for an excuse

You have got to be kidding me, you worked for it? not gonna come out and say it, you should know what im refering to but you claiming that is a joke

[diodore]

This is Working as Intended, and although it may be a confusing at first, a simple reading of the wiki page explains it: http://ddowiki.com/page/Iconic_True_Reincarnation

The mechanics of this are pretty clear if you read in game messages as well. It is also clear if you have read release notes. The reason it is there is because simultaneous EPIC and ICONIC TR was probably seen as being getting too much too fast (three past life feats every iconic life). Also seems reasonable to me the way the current rules work.

Okay, to the argument that a baroque system would be helpfully simplified, your reply is RTFM. But I would agree to disagree on this point.

What about the very reasonable idea that it would be a good thing if players could grind EPLs at cap? This would make it possible for more characters to stay at cap, happy in their best gear, while still making progress through karma. People wax nostalgic for the halcyon days of when cap was level 20. This change would be a step towards a socially cohesive endgame that people miss.

It seems to me that EPLs requiring marginally less grind to obtain is a small price to pay (to whom anyway?). I don't hear many people complaining these days that the past adjustments to the experience required to level to 20 vitiates their past accomplishments....

[Bolo_Grubb]

Rather than letting you ITR below level cap, I think they should let you ER whenever you have 6M XP in an ED Sphere, regardless of what your char lvl is (as long as it's an epic char). So if you want to sit at endgame, farming 24M XP to fill all your ED Spheres, then ER 4x in a row for four EPLs, you ought to be able to do that. This also "future-proofs" ERs against lvl 30 cap so you don't have to do even more unnecessary leveling.

I like this idea