Are Fighter just Gimp w the saves they get???

[Powskier]

my buddy just got to epic as fighter capstone and ..the saves are so bad..Fighter is frontline ;they deserve better than +6 ,at 20th lvl - UPDATE The Weak SAVES PLEASE...no wonder players hate fighter,I did my 1st 3 lives at fighter, and it wasn't easy.

[fmalfeas]

Fighter gets massive fort saves. Which provides good protection from Disintegrate, the bane the classes that have good reflex and will. Being a Heavy Armor class, the odds of them having enough dex to make for a good reflex save at 20+ is close to nil unless they're a monk-split or other multiclass, so it's not a big thing there. And will? Everyone has a weakness of some sort. That's the fighter's weak point. It can be mitigated with gear, race choice (warforged are immune to Hold spells, Dwarves get bonuses to saves vs spells, elves are immune to sleep spells) and epic destinies. Also, the +12 at 20 for a good profile save isn't that big of a thing these days, when people are toting around 60+ saves.

But, as a fighter, there are two buffs you want most of the time that make up for your will save, at least a bit. Greater Heroism, and Freedom of Movement. Fear immunity, and Hold immunity, respectively. The fear bit can be done with gear pretty easy (low level aug) and Freedom of Movement does exist as a constant buff on a few gear pieces.

[Fafnir]

It's about balance. Fighters get good dps and weak saves; paladins get great saves and... oh hang on, wait...

[Enoach]

This is the trade off and one area where the difference between a Fighter (lots of feat choices, lower saves) and a Paladin (few feat choices but higher saves)

Now a fighter does not have to suffer from lower saves if they invest some of their feats into defensive feats especially feats that improve their saves. There are many of them, many that are also not given a second look because they don't contribute to DPS.

[Monkey-Boy]

It's about balance. Fighters get good dps and weak saves; paladins get great saves and... oh hang on, wait...

Pretty much this.

Fighter is a dead class.

[FlaviusMaximus]

Fighters get good fort saves and reflex saves don't mean anything anymore if you wear heavy armor. Will saves can be a problem, but the + to saves from Defender can help a bit.

[Qhualor]

fighters are a weaker version of barbarian.

[Blackheartox]

It's about balance. Fighters get good dps and weak saves; paladins get great saves and... oh hang on, wait...

Splash 2 palie, saves fixed.
Splash 6 monk dps fixed.

Only issue is that it lacks dps compared to pure palie.
But its still very viable.
Issue is people are chasing after the most effective thing and dont like to play out of the box builds.

But hey let me join in, sorcs got robes only and thus super low survival.
I dont want to splash 2 palie, i dont want to take harmor feats, but i want same survival as a 220 prr melle.
/makes sense, right? heh

[count_spicoli]

Before everybody and there mama was tripping and stunning because of this gimp bug 12 ftr was great. +8 str or 11 if human power surge was nice. Now ftrs aren't even tactics masters cuz a Wizzy can trip just as well. So ya they are a hot mess right now until that bug is fixxed.

[Powskier]

yea,it is Will saves fustrating the player-he is swappin enhances 4 g heroism before the thread was up...He cant twist some of the will stuff yet from diff destinies ,srry suggesting that wont work till l8r.I suggest to save the spell absorb stuff for tough times and wear diff items in those slots-swap in battle as needed. Any suggestions for will save boots for fighter builds could go here I guess....bring 'em

[Brac]

Items, feats, stat increases. There are plenty of ways to increase saves. Your friend just needs to build better. If you want to complain about fighters there are plenty of real issues, saves isn't one. Try harder.

[Powskier]

Items, feats, stat increases. There are plenty of ways to increase saves. Your friend just needs to build better. If you want to complain about fighters there are plenty of real issues, saves isn't one. Try harder.

relax dude ,it is his 1st fighter life...tellin people they didnt try hard enough is some weak rotten tripe.They get +6 will save at lvl 20 ,I think alot players dont know how low it is.

[Sehenry03]

relax dude ,it is his 1st fighter life...tellin people they didnt try hard enough is some weak rotten tripe.They get +6 will save at lvl 20 ,I think alot players dont know how low it is.

This...good news is you don't need good will saves as it is the easiest to build for. Prot from Evil and FoM fixes most will save problems.

[count_spicoli]

This...good news is you don't need good will saves as it is the easiest to build for. Prot from Evil and FoM fixes most will save problems.

You'll still boogie alot.

[Powskier]

Items, feats, stat increases. There are plenty of ways to increase saves. Your friend just needs to build better. If you want to complain about fighters there are plenty of real issues, saves isn't one. Try harder.

This...good news is you don't need good will saves as it is the easiest to build for. Prot from Evil and FoM fixes most will save problems.

yea FOM is the key for him....to bad cards are gone now...he coulda had a flask;( He may have umd enough for that scroll though,ill pass along /darn fighter get not enough skill points though or he'd have heal scroll stack)

[Sehenry03]

You'll still boogie alot.

Most people boogie a lot. The dancing spells are tough to plan for. Some don't even give a save and my druid has good will saves and he still fails a lot

[Thalone]

relax dude ,it is his 1st fighter life...tellin people they didnt try hard enough is some weak rotten tripe.They get +6 will save at lvl 20 ,I think alot players dont know how low it is.

Pretty sure the max base is +12 Will at 20. Fighters are only 6 points off the max, and this is quite small given the amount of gear and buffs you can get.

Others have already suggested FoM/Protection from Evil. Also: Trip, Sap, Stun to get the stuff which can attack your Will saves. Fighters have a billion feats for a reason.

[Kuttamia]

my buddy just got to epic as fighter capstone and ..the saves are so bad..Fighter is frontline ;they deserve better than +6 ,at 20th lvl - UPDATE The Weak SAVES PLEASE...no wonder players hate fighter,I did my 1st 3 lives at fighter, and it wasn't easy.

You are exactly right. Fighters are the most useless class in game atm to play a pure build. They are good with heavy splash though, giving you a nice 3 extra feat options for just 3 fighter splash. With rubbish saves, rubbish healing ability, rubbish dps, rubbish tactical abilities, rubbish damage mitigation, playing a fighter today is just a waste of time. Any class is more proficient then a fighter. Compare fighter with their other melee counterparts, a barb, paladine, bard and you will notice that fighter cant even reach high enough to kiss their boots.

[MonadRebelion]

I basically agree with the OP. A 20th level fighter is underpowered compared to a 20th level paladin. At the same time, all PC's are way over powered compared to content. This leaves us in a weird situation. It seems like fighters need a boost, they also need to be nerfed along with everything else. In my judgment the game is all whacked out in terms of balance.

[MacRighteous]

Fighters have an abundance of Feat slots - take some of those feats that buff up your saves. There are also save buffs in Enhancements and ED's - spend a few points on those too.