Confirmation of Nerf to Holy Sword

[SpiderPig]

Can I get a confirmation that the Holy Sword spell is being changed please?


As the lamannia Server still won't let me log in, I cannot confirm this myself.


I have posted on the lam discussion forum and have had no response, so I thought I would try my luck here.

[Mandelia]

They are removing the part that gives an enchantment bonus to the weapon. They stated this in one of the broadcasts, not sure if its published somewhere.

[StormKnight]

They are removing the part that gives an enchantment bonus to the weapon. They stated this in one of the broadcasts, not sure if its published somewhere.

That's right, losing the enchantment part but it retains the crit range?, if I remember correctly

[BDog77]

As I pointed out in your thread in the Lamma forums, in the current build on Lammania, there have been NO changes to Holy Sword, nor has anything been mentioned in the release notes about a change to the spell.

The spell still gets the +2 holy bonus (changing a +10 weapon into a +12), the +1[W], the +1 critical threat, and the +1 critical multiplier.

I do not know if they intend to change it before U24 (although I thought this was the last Lamma build), however, at this moment, NOTHING has changed from Live with the spell Holy Sword.

[axel15810]

Can I get a confirmation that the Holy Sword spell is being changed please?


As the lamannia Server still won't let me log in, I cannot confirm this myself.


I have posted on the lam discussion forum and have had no response, so I thought I would try my luck here.

From what I've read it sounds like they haven't completely made up their minds and aren't ready to announce anything. Nothing has been confirmed as far as I know.

They seem pretty certain to remove the +W damage but I think it's possible they may nerf it further (honestly it probably needs it for balance reasons).

[Sehenry03]

From what I've read it sounds like they haven't completely made up their minds and aren't ready to announce anything. Nothing has been confirmed as far as I know.

They seem pretty certain to remove the +W damage but I think it's possible they may nerf it further (honestly it probably needs it for balance reasons).

Yep...heaven forbid that Paladins that have been delegated to 2-3 lvls in multi builds for the last 6+ years actually become a high DPS class for a short time LOL.

Would be horrible to see pure Paladins running around soloing EE content like most every other class can =)

Sad thing is I play a Sorc mainly so don't really care but I hear this all the time in game after running quests. Monks and Fighters upset that Paladins are more viable then them right now in some situations.

[axel15810]

Yep...heaven forbid that Paladins that have been delegated to 2-3 lvls in multi builds for the last 6+ years actually become a high DPS class for a short time LOL.

Would be horrible to see pure Paladins running around soloing EE content like most every other class can =)

Sad thing is I play a Sorc mainly so don't really care but I hear this all the time in game after running quests. Monks and Fighters upset that Paladins are more viable then them right now in some situations.

Of all the melee classes paladins currently have the best DPS and best defense/survivability. That's not balanced. I think most players can agree.

In my opinion if barbs/fighters are going to miss out on all the survivability goodies paladins get (high saves, lay on hands, buffs, cure spells, ect.) it's only fair they should have better DPS to compensate.

[Sehenry03]

More like in almost all situations.

Of all the melee classes paladins currently have the best DPS and best survivability. That's not balanced. I think most players can agree.

I would not disagree at all. Like I said I play sorcs so won't impact me. I can see it already though that paladins are gonna drop back down because of the idea that they are OP'ed. No matter what you are gonna have 1 class that is better overall then any other class and I just find it amusing that when it happens to be Paladins everyone wants them nerfed. Monks were OP'ed for a long time. Very long time. And in some ways are still the best. We'll see after the update but I am betting Paladins will be phased out completely soon except flavor builds. The reduction in DPS and the fact that they are changing how just having a few lvls of pally won't be insane saves anymore is gonna end any need for them. Flavor builds sure but that's it.

Never understood the argument where a class now becomes better then other classes so lets gimp them in some way. Cetus had his fighter build that had more survivability and higher DPS then most other melee toons but there was no mention of changing fighters.

Let every melee class have their day in the sun for a few updates.

Either way we will see what happens =) But we all know DDO tends to go overboard on things like this. I personally think someone at Turbine hates Paladins. Barbarians are getting a nice change and bards got a huge update. Paladins get a nice update then immediately reduced .

[BDog77]

Paladins get a nice update then immediately reduced .

Yeah, we've noticed this. No talk about nerfing swashbuckler now is there?

[Sehenry03]

Yeah, we've noticed this. No talk about nerfing swashbuckler now is there?

Hell no. Look...Paladins are not a popular class. They are a popular splash and that's it and even that is gonna end soon.. The only reason you see more of them now is because they are powerful. After this update people will TR out of the pally class to most likely something involving monk LOL.

Monks will always be at the top of the list as well as Swashbuckler now because people love the idea of them and DDO won't touch that. Barbarians need to watch out because if they get to much of an upgrade then people will complain and they get nerfed back down a peg. Players want certain classes to be powerful so Monks and Swashbucklers amongst a few select others will always be a top notch DPS/Survivability type class. Paladins are not in that mold so they will always be held to mediocre and if they do get to powerful a quick change and they are back down.

I have no problems nerfing a class of they are OP'ed and Paladins could be I haven't really played them much. My point is anytime you have a class that is included in a VAST majority of builds it needs to be looked at. Monk is seen in more builds then every other class combined to me. This is my opinion. Everyone I play with has Monk splashed. Really? Again just my opinion but to me Monks need looked at more then Paladins.

[Blackheartox]

Several things that should be done in ddo:

1. Nerf holy sword, make it multiselector since its stupid that 1 free spells is more useful then 42 points spent into other trees of other classes

2. Fix druid styles, its really stupid to play a swf 2 weap fight druid since it really is op

3. Fix tree form, aka give it less dps, since at its current state it is incredibly broken once you figure how to get enough spirit

4. Dont make barbs overpowered

5. Fix sneak and enemy ai detection so that assasins can do what they are suposed to do, assasinate, never understood why the quests shouldnt be sneak completable

6. Nerf swasc builds, bards should never be on top dps, they should do something of everything but not be top in most

I can add many many more but those are highest priority on my list.

Also nerf dc casting /yes im playing a sorc and i want a nerf for myself since it is utterly stupidly strong

[Sehenry03]

Several things that should be done in ddo:

1. Nerf holy sword, make it multiselector since its stupid that 1 free spells is more useful then 42 points spent into other trees of other classes

2. Fix druid styles, its really stupid to play a swf 2 weap fight druid since it really is op

3. Fix tree form, aka give it less dps, since at its current state it is incredibly broken once you figure how to get enough spirit

4. Dont make barbs overpowered

5. Fix sneak and enemy ai detection so that assasins can do what they are suposed to do, assasinate, never understood why the quests shouldnt be sneak completable

6. Nerf swasc builds, bards should never be on top dps, they should do something of everything but not be top in most

I can add many many more but those are highest priority on my list.

Also nerf dc casting /yes im playing a sorc and i want a nerf for myself since it is utterly stupidly strong

I would agree with everything on your list. The problem is out of the 6 points you mentioned how many are gonna be addressed anytime soon? The first one and that's it. Paladins are gonna take a DPS hit when they nerf Holy Sword and everything else will continue. That's my point. Why nerf ONE class when so many others need addressed also? **** let Paladins enjoy life a little bit before hitting them with the nerf bat so quick. Maybe Holy Sword is OP'ed but no one will convince me it is more OP'ed then the druid/monk combos in animal form yet that has persisted for ages.

[Blackheartox]

I would agree with everything on your list. The problem is out of the 6 points you mentioned how many are gonna be addressed anytime soon? The first one and that's it. Paladins are gonna take a DPS hit when they nerf Holy Sword and everything else will continue. That's my point. Why nerf ONE class when so many others need addressed also? **** let Paladins enjoy life a little bit before hitting them with the nerf bat so quick. Maybe Holy Sword is OP'ed but no one will convince me it is more OP'ed then the druid/monk combos in animal form yet that has persisted for ages.

When i made the 10 druid 6 ranger 4 fight split, once i reached 20 i said to my buddy, this is op, i so hope they will fix it.

People would use dev assault fully maxed at 28 and do "speed runs", i steped into it after a etr on 20, yes 20 so only old epic gear, with a epic envm blade and i beat the fastest speed record as a druid giberish build on lv 20 vs a fully maxed lv 28 what it was dont remember.
Now everyone can tell me that isnt op, but tbh it is.
I shared the build with other people once i trd out of it
Tree, bards and other stuff can also approach same ammount of stupid op-nes.

And i can say that currently in my final sorc life im doing some stupidtly crazy things, i wont post on achivments since any post i see there consists of people using duped mats and whatever.
Like that for example melle ee solo lob/ma, why didnt he at least try to hide the tornado pots on his bar?
But for example, no cheats solo shroud with bb, solo reavers with bb, solo adq2 with bravery, solo chrono tspine with bravery, ee chrono, adq2, /figuring how to do von as sorc pillars are a issue, soon il do mark solo, ee fot have some plans, etc etc.
And this is on a totally fair class where only tool i have are my personal skills and many many many sp pots i gathered over the years heh.
Point is, if fleshie sorc is so broken, what does that mean for palies/druids/swasch builds then?

Game imo needs to take one of 2 directions:
1. Make a new super epic true elite difficutly
2. Nerf things to oblivion

I prefer nm 2 since it will give us more forum drama, and forum drama is always good for killing time

[Sehenry03]

Yep lots of classes are broken. Which is why I find it so amusing that people want Paladins to be nerfed already. I play a Sorc and I know how nasty they are. I don't care how OP a Paladin is...with my Sorc I know I can clear most dungeons faster then a Paladin can. Sure the Paladin would be safer but doesn't really matter. Who cares if his spell is OP when SO many other classes have OP broken abilities. Let Paladins have some fun while you focus on fixing those other classes first.

[Qezuzu]

Several things that should be done in ddo:

1. Nerf holy sword, make it multiselector since its stupid that 1 free spells is more useful then 42 points spent into other trees of other classes

2. Fix druid styles, its really stupid to play a swf 2 weap fight druid since it really is op

3. Fix tree form, aka give it less dps, since at its current state it is incredibly broken once you figure how to get enough spirit

4. Dont make barbs overpowered

5. Fix sneak and enemy ai detection so that assasins can do what they are suposed to do, assasinate, never understood why the quests shouldnt be sneak completable

6. Nerf swasc builds, bards should never be on top dps, they should do something of everything but not be top in most

I can add many many more but those are highest priority on my list.

Also nerf dc casting /yes im playing a sorc and i want a nerf for myself since it is utterly stupidly strong

5. is fixed as far as I can tell, I have zero trouble sneaking through quests, I just finished an EE Garl's Tomb run with only required kills+2 Shadow Manipulation kills.

But instead if nerfing everything, we should improve the other classes and then increase the difficulty of quests on H/E (which is already being done on lamma.) No one likes it when things get nerfed, especially for classes like Paladin and Bard which have never really had a time to shine. Honestly the only thing that should ever be considered for a nerf is the extreme outlier builds that make jokes out of all content, and that's pretty much just Monkchers.

Also, two of my specific gripes:
-Shadowdancer epic moment is pure garbage. It's literally +2d6 damage and the "increased range of melee" is little more than a parlor trick in practice. Oh and it requires you get the kill on TWENTY mobs, and it lasts 30 seconds: compare this to Blitz, which you can just activate at will, lasts as long as you can keep fighting, and provides a massively better benefit. The implosion also hasn't functioned very well in forever. Shadow Manipulation is a significantly better ability than either of them.
-Magister is SO BORING. It has like two abilities worth using, everything else is just passive increases to DC.

[katz]

...i wont post on achivments since any post i see there consists of people using duped mats and whatever...

excuse you,i'm quite offended by that...i did my solo melee bardic shroud 100% legit. and i did it almost a year ago.. BEFORE swashbuckler came out

[Sehenry03]

5. is fixed as far as I can tell, I have zero trouble sneaking through quests, I just finished an EE Garl's Tomb run with only required kills+2 Shadow Manipulation kills.

But instead if nerfing everything, we should improve the other classes and then increase the difficulty of quests on H/E (which is already being done on lamma.) No one likes it when things get nerfed, especially for classes like Paladin and Bard which have never really had a time to shine. Honestly the only thing that should ever be considered for a nerf is the extreme outlier builds that make jokes out of all content, and that's pretty much just Monkchers.

Also, two of my specific gripes:
-Shadowdancer epic moment is pure garbage. It's literally +2d6 damage and the "increased range of melee" is little more than a parlor trick in practice. Oh and it requires you get the kill on TWENTY mobs, and it lasts 30 seconds: compare this to Blitz, which you can just activate at will, lasts as long as you can keep fighting, and provides a massively better benefit. The implosion also hasn't functioned very well in forever. Shadow Manipulation is a significantly better ability than either of them.
-Magister is SO BORING. It has like two abilities worth using, everything else is just passive increases to DC.

This is how it SHOULD happen. Problem is...and Paladin is a perfect example...one class gets a buff and is now better then other melee classes so people so the game isn't balanced. LOL sorry but the game hasn't been balanced since people figured out how to get druid/monk in combo with wolfform. Since people don't want Paladins to be very powerful they complain until the favorite classes are again more powerful.

[JOTMON]

Several things that should be done in ddo:

1. Nerf holy sword, make it multiselector since its stupid that 1 free spells is more useful then 42 points spent into other trees of other classes

2. Fix druid styles, its really stupid to play a swf 2 weap fight druid since it really is op

3. Fix tree form, aka give it less dps, since at its current state it is incredibly broken once you figure how to get enough spirit

4. Dont make barbs overpowered

5. Fix sneak and enemy ai detection so that assasins can do what they are suposed to do, assasinate, never understood why the quests shouldnt be sneak completable

6. Nerf swasc builds, bards should never be on top dps, they should do something of everything but not be top in most

I can add many many more but those are highest priority on my list.

Also nerf dc casting /yes im playing a sorc and i want a nerf for myself since it is utterly stupidly strong

1. Holy Sword is a level 4 Paladin spell which means you have to have a minimum of 14 levels of paladin.. so how is this a free spell. pretty expensive considering 14 levels of fighter gets you 8 bonus feats.
2. how is this stupid? are you saying druids shouldn't be able to wield two weapons? any other class can wield two weapons.. even casters get benefit from dual wielding caster sticks.
3 yeah because everyone is running around in tree form... its as popular as platemail wearing monks.
4. Barbs need to be Op, they suck atm. Barbarians should be the top of the DPS tree as far as pure damage output and no defense uis concerned against most generic mobs.
Paladins for evil/undead, rogues on sneak attacks, Rangers on favoured enemies.. blah blah.....
5. yes this is broken... Dev's screwed this up a while back and still haven't acknowledged it isn't working properly, or if they will ever fix it.
Can't sneak up on an inactive mob and assassinate them, have to get them aggro'd on something else ,like a noise trap or hjireling.. scratch hireling.. those useless things runaround aggroing everything then die leaving mobs searching for you.
Assasinate seems to be like hitting a mob with a gong, sneak kill one and the room all of a sudden is instantly in aggro mode and coming your way.
6. never understood why they let this happen. especially after they screwed monks and their quivering palm which actually requires investment to achieve near no fail DC and building ki.

Caster DC's I don't think are the issue , short cooldowns on Epic Destiny burst attacks and huge stacking low cost damage from shirardi could use some tweaking.

[MacRighteous]

I was playing Paladins when they were gymped, I play them now and I'll be playing them after they're nerfed.

The bit of extra DPS we are getting out of Holy Sword is nice and I don't want to give it up, but really for me, it isn't about which class has the highest DPS - it's about being a Paladin. To me that means being a Divine Healing, Heavy Armored Sword & Board force to be reckoned with. Paladins don't need the highest DPS, but their DPS needed to be better than it was and they should never be put back in the position where they have to splash with classes that don't feel right and forced to wear pajamas to remain viable again.

So having said that, I wouldn't be too butt-hurt if they toned down Holy Sword a bit - but honestly, there is bigger fish to fry. Let them do their thing to a few more classes before they start un-doing their overhauls.

[depositbox]

2. how is this stupid? are you saying druids shouldn't be able to wield two weapons? any other class can wield two weapons.. even casters get benefit from dual wielding caster sticks.

wolves. he means wolves. 2wf and swf working in forms is not wai. And they can be stacked. No other build can use these this way.

3 yeah because everyone is running around in tree form... its as popular as platemail wearing monks.

Popularity has nothing to do with how much dps a ww tree deals. AoE 25k crits. regular hits 1k+

6. never understood why they let this happen. especially after they screwed monks and their quivering palm which actually requires investment to achieve near no fail DC and building ki.

building ki is non-issue. it builds just by being in combat. perform is also an investment just not as much as an investment monks needed for wisdom and 2 gear slots for sunder and exceptional. either way, coup de grace isnt even needed to deal sick dps with swashbucklrers. add in all the free cc they get like gaurdbreaking and elegant footwork too.