Barbarian and Heavy Armor Proficiency?

[arminius]

Barbarians are very, very short on feats, but if one did manage to decide to spare a feat toward Heavy Armor Proficiency, would it work? I.E., what other barbarian attributes would suffer, if any? Like, for example, a ranger would suffer because of loss of evasion, that sort of thing, but for barbarian.

I'm finding surprisingly little info on this out there, I'm supposing because for most of the history of the game armor meant AC which was completely pointless on a barb, so nobody really bothered to ask. However, now with the PRR/MRR + the TF plate attributes, there seems more reason to wonder if it's feasible. Thanks!

[Grailhawk]

The dodge cap might negate some of the passive dodge they get leveling up and make some enh not worth taking (Improved Uncany Dodger or what ever its called for instance) but that's not that big a deal as the PRR/MRR gains more then make up for the lose, and a lot of that can be worked around with gear and what to up the max dex cap.

[Seikojin]

Uncanny dodge.

[Stinging_Bee]

Barbarians are very, very short on feats, but if one did manage to decide to spare a feat toward Heavy Armor Proficiency, would it work? I.E., what other barbarian attributes would suffer, if any? Like, for example, a ranger would suffer because of loss of evasion, that sort of thing, but for barbarian.

I'm finding surprisingly little info on this out there, I'm supposing because for most of the history of the game armor meant AC which was completely pointless on a barb, so nobody really bothered to ask. However, now with the PRR/MRR + the TF plate attributes, there seems more reason to wonder if it's feasible. Thanks!

Barbarian have a good amount of dodge from uncanny dodge feat. You get passive dodge amount the more barbarian levels you have.
In the past barbarians used to wear light or cloth armor to maximize their dodge score that would suffer from wearing heavy armors.

Now things changed because the benefit from wearing heavy armor more that outweighs the loss of dodge.
Personally I'm wearing heavy armor now on my barbarian and I feel much more survivable than the past thanks to the heavy armor changes.

[Qhualor]

Pure dps barbs are not short on feats. I leveled a human barb to 28 taking the THF line, IC and cleaves. I replaced Toughness or barb past life with heavy armor proficiency. There is no sacrifice to this, even for other races.

The choice will be up to the player if they prefer to invest in high dodge wearing light/medium armor or take the feat for much higher PRR and MRR in heavy. It totally makes no flavor sense and just shows how broken the system is, but it seems to me that you get a much higher benefit with heavy armor.

[unbongwah]

If I'm doing my math right for a pure barb:

Heavy armor: 45 + BAB + 6 = 77 PRR @ lvl 28
Med armor: 30 + (2/3 * BAB) + 4 = 52 PRR @ lvl 28

So a net gain of 25 PRR at level cap. The med-armor wearer has ~33% dmg reduction, while the hvy armor wearer has ~44% dmg reduction, or about a 1/3 improvement. But that ignores PRR from other sources, which would narrow the gap. E.g., between builds with eMinos (+30 PRR), eMalevolence (+5 PRR), and Unbreakable Adamancy set (+5 PRR), it's closer to 48% vs 54% reduction, or about a 1/8 improvement.

Basically, going from med to hvy is a non-trivial increase in PRR, but that difference narrows with more PRR gear. And as stated, the lower MDB on hvy armor also caps your Dodge bonus; pure barbs get 6% inherent Dodge and can add another +3% cheap (Uncanny Dodger in OS). So for me the deciding factor would probably be which named (or flawless thunderforged) armor you want to use at cap, not the PRR difference.

[Qhualor]

If I'm doing my math right for a pure barb:

Heavy armor: 45 + BAB + 6 = 77 PRR @ lvl 28
Med armor: 30 + (2/3 * BAB) + 4 = 52 PRR @ lvl 28

So a net gain of 25 PRR at level cap. The med-armor wearer has ~33% dmg reduction, while the hvy armor wearer has ~44% dmg reduction, or about a 1/3 improvement. But that ignores PRR from other sources, which would narrow the gap. E.g., between builds with eMinos (+30 PRR), eMalevolence (+5 PRR), and Unbreakable Adamancy set (+5 PRR), it's closer to 48% vs 54% reduction, or about a 1/8 improvement.

Basically, going from med to hvy is a non-trivial increase in PRR, but that difference narrows with more PRR gear. And as stated, the lower MDB on hvy armor also caps your Dodge bonus; pure barbs get 6% inherent Dodge and can add another +3% cheap (Uncanny Dodger in OS). So for me the deciding factor would probably be which named (or flawless thunderforged) armor you want to use at cap, not the PRR difference.

PRR can also be increased with enhancements.

Its not just that, its also the difference in MRR which an OS will have more than the other barb trees plus SR. SR costs points in FOTW. If you also include gear like GS perma blur/displace clicky and other gear with incorporeal/blur/displace that mitigation is even more worth the heavy armor feat.

Without much gear, my Ravager on Lama in fully upgraded flawless black heavy armor has 80 PRR and 50 MRR without trying with a 2% dodge cap. Actually putting effort into it and having better armor would make those numbers much higher. Survivability was much higher including with the self healing.

[Monkey-Boy]

PRR can also be increased with enhancements.

It's not just the PRR, the 60 DR from the TF armor is significant. And that's only available on Heavy armor.

[arminius]

It's not just the PRR, the 60 DR from the TF armor is significant. And that's only available on Heavy armor.

Right, that's what I'm really pushing for, it's that the other TF armors are ok-ish, but the heavy plate is not kidding pretty great.

[Qhualor]

It's not just the PRR, the 60 DR from the TF armor is significant. And that's only available on Heavy armor.

That too, but I'm trying to see a difference with just average or a little better gear that I believe would be not out of reach or hard to get for the typical barb player.

[Monkey-Boy]

That too, but I'm trying to see a difference with just average or a little better gear that I believe would be not out of reach or hard to get for the typical barb player.

Haven't tried it on a barb yet, but on a splashed Tempest ranger I've found stuff like soloing EE Breaking the Ranks to me much easier in heavy armor than in light with 20% dodge.

[Riekan]

I could be completely off base, but I do run a level 28 full barbarian wearing TF full plate for the 30/60 DR. Took heavy armor at 24. I haven't tested much, but it seems like I run slower now. The barbarian run speed increases might be tied to medium or lower armor. Not necessarily a reason to not use heavy armor, but a potential negative to doing so.